Hydraulic brakes questions - super hard pedal

[billybronco1]

How can you tell silicone brake fluid fluid from Dot 3 - I plan to flush through with dot 3 does it mater as long as I give it a good flush?

[Charlie Stephens]

Billy,

I called the distributer of your master cylinder (Summit Racing, (330) 630-0240) and asked about the two reservoirs you described in your post. The tech guy couldn't figure out what I was trying to describe based on your post. If you are in a local club you should ask someone to come by and look at your system.

Are the two reservoirs on the high pressure or the low pressure side of the master cylinder? Maybe someone added a second low pressure reservoir because they thought one would not hold enough fluid?

Charlie Stephens

[Bob C]

I think this is your master cylinder, looks like single reservoir. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Wilwood-...8b86eb&vxp=mtr

Bob

[steve s]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

How can you tell silicone brake fluid fluid from Dot 3 - I plan to flush through with dot 3 does it mater as long as I give it a good flush?

DOT 5 is purple.

Not sure I understand the 2nd question, but I think it's important that all the DOT 3 be removed before adding DOT 5.

Steve

[Charlie Stephens]

Billy,

You might find this interesting. I can't say for sure that it applies to the Model A but I assume it does. Commments anyone?

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...xle+nut+torque

The tech guy at Brattons recommended 100 pounds. I assume the number came from the table in the front of their printed catalog (table not available on line).

Take your pick.

Charlie Stephens

[rich b]

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Make sure you take a look at your pedal ratio as previously mentioned.

A stock Ford juice brake pedal had a ratio of about 6.4 to 1.

I have come across several of stock A pedal conversions with ratios that were way low and resulted in a "have to stand on the pedal with both feet to stop" brake action. A rework of the pedal ratio cured the problem in these cases.

You may find that the little 13/16" master will require a longer stroke than usual; unless of course the second reservoir you found is hooked to another master and you have a dual system.

[billybronco1]

Okay finally getting a closer look at the brakes. I actually have two master cylinders, one for the fronts and one for the rears. I had some one step on the brake as I tried to turn the wheels - fronts turned rears did not. So it now makes sense why the car does not want to stop. Once I clean things up I will try bleeding each wheel and see what the results are. I do not see any obvious leaks and all looks pretty good to me.

The rear hubs came right off and the nut was not tight at all - I noticed some kind of seal behind the big washer, looks like packing plumbers oakum - what should be in there? Also do I load up the big rear bearing with axle grease or just grease it with a grease gun from the outside of the axle? I see a grease fitting on the axle close to the brake backing plate.

[Bob C]

I saw the picture of one master cylinder in post #13, where is the other one mounted?
Never heard of such a thing.

Bob

[billybronco1]

One is on the passenger side and one is on the drivers side.

[billybronco1]

Here is a pic of the second MS on the drivers side

[Kirby1374]

wow, very creative

[billybronco1]

I wonder how I get these in sync as I would think you want more force on the fronts

[Fordors]

I think you need advice from a circle track racer. Those guys will adjust front to rear brake bias similar to what you want to do, but they do it to adjust for track conditions. Loosen the jam nut for the front m/c push rod and adjust that push rod out; you will want to make the fronts come in first as something like 70% of braking force is from the front axle. Remember that you need a bit of clearance (about a 1/16") at the push rod to m/c piston on those fronts. Next, loosen the jam nut on the rear m/c push rod and screw that rod into the clevis, you might even have to remove and cut it down some. The front m/c will have pressure applied first and more than the rear and I'm sure this will take some trial and error on your part to get the desired effect. Once you have done this go to a deserted area, a parking lot, or your driveway (slowly) and test it out.
A racer would know more, but I think this will get you started. Or stopped, actually.

[RichPA]

I have seen a hard pedal several times, its usually fluid thats contaminated with oil of some kind causing the rubber components to swell.Natural rubber and petroleum dont mix.

[Terry, NJ]

They look like 46-48 ford, same as mine. The two 11/16 bolt heads are your adjustments.
One for each shoe. I Believe that turning them upwards tightens them. and turning them downwards loosens them. There is a cam that drives against the shoe and positions it against the drum. Trial and error!but you'll probably have to back off the adjustments because of the little lip that wears into the outer edge of the drum. Good luck!
Terry

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Here is a pic of the second MS on the drivers side

Wow.

Let's see, MC on the left for Brakes on the Driver's Side and MC on the Right for Brakes on the Passenger Side ?



Someone had deep pockets, getting two Willwood MCs...

[steve s]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Ok ...
The rear hubs came right off and the nut was not tight at all - I noticed some kind of seal behind the big washer, looks like packing plumbers oakum - what should be in there? Also do I load up the big rear bearing with axle grease or just grease it with a grease gun from the outside of the axle? I see a grease fitting on the axle close to the brake backing plate.

The seal may have been a rear wheel hub gasket. Mac's handles all the parts you're likely to need.


http://macsautoparts.com/early-v8-fo...d/F30/cc/1170/

Pack the bearing in the usual way before reassembling. No more than a squirt or two into the fitting. You can overload the system and get grease on the shoes if you get carried away.

I'm a little worried that your axle nut was loose. That's how you shear your axle keys, grind away the taper, and maybe lose your wheel. Often you need to add a shim around the tapered axle end in order to adequately tighten the drum without binding it against the shoes or backing plate. Dennis Cling and others sell detailed booklets on this conversion, which you may need if the prior owner didn't do a conscientious job. I would be concerned, based on what you've shown us so far. Inverting the rear backing plates is the lazy way to do it; you'll see when it comes time to bleed them.

Steve

[billybronco1]

For the rears wheel bearings do you just slap grease in the hub or do you take the bearing out to pack it. This is the huge roller bearing.

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

Wow.

Let's see, MC on the left for Brakes on the Driver's Side and MC on the Right for Brakes on the Passenger Side ?



Someone had deep pockets, getting two Willwood MCs...

No no no - one MS for fronts and one MS for rears but they are mounted under the front seat - one on the left and one on the right.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

For the rears wheel bearings do you just slap grease in the hub or do you take the bearing out to pack it. This is the huge roller bearing.

Always pack the wheel bearings; don't rely on grease finding it's way into where it's needed.