Hydraulic brakes questions - super hard pedal

[billybronco1]

Hi, my 1929 model A has brakes converted to hydraulic - first thing I noticed is the brake pedal is all the way up and hardly any free play and is hard as a rock - you need to step on it with both feet - super hard to stop the car, is this normal? If I ever needed to stop quickly it isn't going to happen. I have driven old cars with basic hydraulic brakes, no power boost or anything and they seemed to stop just fine without pushing too hard.

[Charlie Stephens]

You need to post some pictures. My first guess would be incorrect ratios in the linkage. What master cylinder and what backing plates are you using?

Charlie Stephens

[fordcragar]

Tell us a little more about the car. Is this a car you just acquired or have you had it a long time and it has been sitting. Or maybe this is a car you just put together.

[billybronco1]

This is my first Model A and I just bought it today - I'm starting to go through it and fix several issues. These brakes just do not feel right to me.

[Tom Wesenberg]

You probably have stuck wheel cylinders from rust rom setting too long.
Are you planing to return to original good mechanical brakes?

[fordcragar]

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What do you know about the car? Has it been sitting and used to run, or was it just put together? If it was working you could have corroded wheel cylinders or master cylinder. Tell us what you have.

[fordcragar]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

..............................Are you planing to return to original good mechanical brakes?

One good thing about mechanical brakes, is that they don't usually rust up and not work. Unless they didn't work well before.

[Charlie Stephens]

If you indeed have a problem with rusty wheel cylinders don't press the brake pedal hard or the shoes will not retract and you will not be able to get the drums off easily (this is probably too late).

Charlie Stephens

[billybronco1]

To the best of my knowledge the car was restored in 2005 by a place that has done several of these. Since then the car has never been in the rain or got wet, and was always garaged. It was driven several times a year. At some point I plan to pull all the wheels & drums to take a peek but I don't really what to expect. I assume it should be set up and stop like any other hydraulic braking car.

I have replaced plenty of brake pads and cylinders in my day, I don't know where to start on this one - like how do I know what is in there for years and how do I buy replacement parts if needed. I did read one article on how these get converted but not sure if all are done the same.

[fordcragar]

I replaced the front wheel cylinders on my coupe last year because of a similar problem. The was driven ever year and then it started pulling to one side. I adjusted the brakes and ran it some and the next year it didn't want to stop.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

To the best of my knowledge the car was restored in 2005 by a place that has done several of these. Since then the car has never been in the rain or got wet, and was always garaged. It was driven several times a year. At some point I plan to pull all the wheels & drums to take a peek but I don't really what to expect. I assume it should be set up and stop like any other hydraulic braking car.

I have replaced plenty of brake pads and cylinders in my day, I don't know where to start on this one - like how do I know what is in there for years and how do I buy replacement parts if needed. I did read one article on how these get converted but not sure if all are done the same.

It is easy for someone that is familiar with the early Ford brakes to tell you what you have. Photograph (remember to set your camera on the lowest resolution in order to post them) the back side of the backing plates showing the adjusters (or lack of) on the bottom and sides. Photograph the master cylinder mount if you get a chance.

Charlie Stephens

[billybronco1]

okay, this will take a while but I will be back - thanks

[billybronco1]

Here is a pic of the master cylinder - what do I have here?

[fordcragar]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Here is a pic of the master cylinder - what do I have here?

It is an after market master cylinder. Unless you have some receipts, check the Wilwood catalog.

http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinde...erLanding.aspx

[gweilbaker]

I've worked on a few conversions, mostly poor adaptation of the systems like linkage length and alignment that caused binding, plus what has already been posted. Don't take for granted it is installed correctly.

[PC/SR]

Some brake linings are harder than others, with less friction. I dont know what choices you have with V8 shoes but might be worth checking.

[Jim Brierley]

Jack up the car and have someone press on the brake pedal firmly. Go to each wheel and see if it is locked, each one should be. If only 1 or 2 are locked you will get hard pedal, and lousy stopping. Sounds like the cylinders are frozen, maybe even the master cylinder. This is why I use silicone fluid.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

Jack up the car and have someone press on the brake pedal firmly. Go to each wheel and see if it is locked, each one should be. If only 1 or 2 are locked you will get hard pedal, and lousy stopping. Sounds like the cylinders are frozen, maybe even the master cylinder. This is why I use silicone fluid.

I agree with Jim on this but would like to add the caution if the wheel cylinders are frozen and you push hard you will force the shoes into the drums and you will not be able to get the drums off later.

When I was in school they taught us not to copy. In the real world when I do a brake conversion I copy the entire system out of an existing vehicle (like a 1940 Ford) and never have any problems. I use all of the same components and the same leverage on the pedals. I must admit from the pictures I can't tell the problem, have you asked the people you got the car from if the brakes ever worked properly? It is interesting to note that the master cylinder looks like it was recently installed and the system may have never worked properly.


Charlie Stephens

[Barry B./ Ma.]

My friend bought a 29 tudor that someone had converted the brakes to hydraulic.They used a GM master cylinder that looks like yours and it mounts under the floor behind the drivers seat. The backing plates and drums are stock model A and the wheel cylinders are mounted where the lower anchors were. I don't know how they worked as he is converting it back to mechanicals. The advantage to this setup seemed to be they used mostly stock parts and could keep the Model A emergency setup, also the shoe adjustment was still Model A.

[billybronco1]

Here is a pic of the front & rear outside view of the backing plates - I hope to pull all the wheels next week - what do these look like to you original off something else - maybe a kit ??