The Ford Barn

tdlmomowers · 08-09-2012, 12:44 PM

Has anyone ever installed a steering stabilizer shock on their Model A, and how did it work out? We saw a kit in either Brattons or Snyders catalog and were curious as to if anyone has used one of these.

1931 flamingo · 08-09-2012, 01:51 PM

I think it's just a "mask" to hide what's wrong. JMO
Paul in CT

oldmanandakid · 08-09-2012, 04:53 PM

Do Not short-cut with a stabilizer. The kid and I just rebuilt the front end and the further we got into the job the more apparent it became that the car had in fact been a danger. A stabliizer would have masked problems and could have put others in danger. Many 80 year old parts were just plain worn out and others had been improperly installed or maintained. About the only thing that went back in untouched were the king pins and the tie rod itself but with new ends and guts.

It seemed like an impossible task at the beginning but lots of time with the catalogs and Les Andrews book allowed even a couple of rank amateurs (don't be fooled by the promotion from Junior Member to Member) to do credible job. The front end is now tight and I believe major safety issues have been addressed.

I have to give credit to Steve at Bert's who would not sell me a stabilizer, instead telling me to find and fix the problems. Thanks Steve, it the best Model A advice I've had so far.

Franchise_24 · 08-11-2012, 10:32 PM

Well, we are going to work on it tomorrow (Sunday) hopefully, so I hope to have some news to report.

Franchise_24 · 08-12-2012, 08:33 PM

OK, so my father in law helped me go over everything. Only thing that seemed weird was the drag link to the pitman arm had play. Took that apart, seemed okay, put it back together. Tightened it and play was gone. The end was screwed in very tight and not flush with the drag link head, is that an issue? Drove the car tonight and the bad shake is still there. We are running out of ideas, everything else looks good. Thinking of getting the drag link rebuild. Maybe tdl can chime in with any info he thinks is pertinent.

oldmanandakid · 08-12-2012, 09:02 PM

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If the drag link is boggered I'll bet the tie-rod ends are too. Disassemble and remove the components then inspect carefully, including the balls on the spindle arms and the pitman. If those balls are out of round they must be replaced if a tie rod-drag link rebuild is to do any good.

Did you drop the radius rods and inspect it's parts? We had a mostly decomposed rubber ball which I replaced with radius cap washer.

rwp · 08-13-2012, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmindling

Had the same problem with by '28. Uncontrollable shaking when hitting a bump just right. Put new Firestone tires on and never had the problem again. The old tires were aging and the rubber was hard. Had been stumped because I couldn't find any loose mechanical parts.
Another possibility is the Pitman arm, where it bolts to the steering box shaft. This can come loose and cause wobble.

Regards,

[email protected]

Same here, after installing new Firestone tires several years ago have not had the shaking anymore.

Franchise_24 · 08-13-2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmanandakid

If the drag link is boggered I'll bet the tie-rod ends are too. Disassemble and remove the components then inspect carefully, including the balls on the spindle arms and the pitman. If those balls are out of round they must be replaced if a tie rod-drag link rebuild is to do any good.

Did you drop the radius rods and inspect it's parts? We had a mostly decomposed rubber ball which I replaced with radius cap washer.

We did not drop the radius ball. Is that a tough task to do?

Jim Mason · 08-13-2012, 09:35 AM

do you have shocks? if not, a weak front spring can allow the front end to pendulum side to side..

Franchise_24 · 08-13-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Mason

do you have shocks? if not, a weak front spring can allow the front end to pendulum side to side..

No I do not have shocks. I have them, but they are not installed.

Jim Mason · 08-13-2012, 12:10 PM

with out shocks and with a weak front spring the front axle is free to swing on the shackles. I've not tried, but you may be able get the front end off the ground, supported by the frame and see if the axle will pendulum (driver side to passenger side and back)..may be the cause. Don't let it fall on you..

Franchise_24 · 08-13-2012, 01:18 PM

I'm going to redo the tie rod and the drag link with new ends and look at the radius ball and go from there like others have suggested. The thing we saw with the radius ball is to remove the castle nuts to get to it the bolt or stud was just spinning. What is that a sign of?

Franchise_24 · 08-13-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Mason

with out shocks and with a weak front spring the front axle is free to swing on the shackles. I've not tried, but you may be able get the front end off the ground, supported by the frame and see if the axle will pendulum (driver side to passenger side and back)..may be the cause. Don't let it fall on you..

Would shocks make that much of a difference? I thought it was just to help with the smoothness of the ride? Is it because they bolt to the frame and then down to the wheel...does it kind of stabilize it or something?

Marco Tahtaras · 08-13-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Mason

with out shocks and with a weak front spring the front axle is free to swing on the shackles. I've not tried, but you may be able get the front end off the ground, supported by the frame and see if the axle will pendulum (driver side to passenger side and back)..may be the cause. Don't let it fall on you..

Unfortunately, suspending it from the frame will temporarily put the arch back in the spring so it can't pendulum!

Franchise_24 · 08-13-2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

Unfortunately, suspending it from the frame will temporarily put the arch back in the spring so it can't pendulum!

So jack the whole car up and put it on stands then?

Tom Wesenberg · 08-13-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

So jack the whole car up and put it on stands then?

Actually that would be the same as rocking the car as is, on the driveway.

If the bolts spin while trying to remove the castle nuts, then the pockets for the bolt heads have worn down enough for the bolt heads to drop low enough to not catch the cross pin, which is to lock the bolts from turning. This is an easy fix by just making small diameter washers to fit under the bolt heads to act as spacers, which lift the bolts the correct amount to engage the cross pin.

You'll have to lift up on the castle nuts while unscrewing the nuts. Hopefully by lifting up you can engage the cross pin.

Fred K-OR · 08-13-2012, 05:15 PM

Is the cross pin still in there?

tdlmomowers · 08-13-2012, 07:09 PM

Yes, the cross pin does appear to be there. How can we gain access to the bolt heads to install washers under the heads? I could not see any way to access the heads of the bolts, they appear to be located in the bell housing and I don't know how to get at them, short of pulling the engine. Is there some hidden access panel or secret way to get at the radius ball bolts?

Tom Wesenberg · 08-14-2012, 12:11 AM

I switched out my rubber cap with the correct kit about 20 years ago on my 29 Tudor and did the complete job by blocking the wishbone down a few inches and installing the bolts and felt through the hole in the bottom of the housing. It wasn't too bad a job. I made some thin small diameter washers to fit under the bolt heads to take care of the worn recess and used my fingers and some wire to fish them through the hole.

Patrick L. · 08-14-2012, 05:38 AM

I agree that there is something loose that you're not catching yet.. Regarding the shocks, the lack of them shouldn't cause the shimmy,, but,, they will certainly affect the handling and ride.. You didn't say which shocks you had,, if they are good originals or those from Bill Stipe,, thats good.. If they are the new 'oil-less' ones[I won't mention the makers name],, they are useless..

08-09-2012, 12:44 PM	#21
tdlmomowers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mansfield, Ohio Posts: 409	Re: Play causing front end shake? Has anyone ever installed a steering stabilizer shock on their Model A, and how did it work out? We saw a kit in either Brattons or Snyders catalog and were curious as to if anyone has used one of these.

08-09-2012, 01:51 PM	#22
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Play causing front end shake? I think it's just a "mask" to hide what's wrong. JMO Paul in CT

08-09-2012, 04:53 PM	#23
oldmanandakid Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Southern Nevada Posts: 149	Re: Play causing front end shake? Do Not short-cut with a stabilizer. The kid and I just rebuilt the front end and the further we got into the job the more apparent it became that the car had in fact been a danger. A stabliizer would have masked problems and could have put others in danger. Many 80 year old parts were just plain worn out and others had been improperly installed or maintained. About the only thing that went back in untouched were the king pins and the tie rod itself but with new ends and guts. It seemed like an impossible task at the beginning but lots of time with the catalogs and Les Andrews book allowed even a couple of rank amateurs (don't be fooled by the promotion from Junior Member to Member) to do credible job. The front end is now tight and I believe major safety issues have been addressed. I have to give credit to Steve at Bert's who would not sell me a stabilizer, instead telling me to find and fix the problems. Thanks Steve, it the best Model A advice I've had so far.

08-11-2012, 10:32 PM	#24
Franchise_24 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lexington, Ohio Posts: 782	Re: Play causing front end shake? Well, we are going to work on it tomorrow (Sunday) hopefully, so I hope to have some news to report. __________________ 1929 Model A Ford Coupe

08-12-2012, 08:33 PM	#25
Franchise_24 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lexington, Ohio Posts: 782	Re: Play causing front end shake? OK, so my father in law helped me go over everything. Only thing that seemed weird was the drag link to the pitman arm had play. Took that apart, seemed okay, put it back together. Tightened it and play was gone. The end was screwed in very tight and not flush with the drag link head, is that an issue? Drove the car tonight and the bad shake is still there. We are running out of ideas, everything else looks good. Thinking of getting the drag link rebuild. Maybe tdl can chime in with any info he thinks is pertinent. __________________ 1929 Model A Ford Coupe

08-12-2012, 09:02 PM	#26
oldmanandakid Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Southern Nevada Posts: 149	Re: Play causing front end shake? UPDATED Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If the drag link is boggered I'll bet the tie-rod ends are too. Disassemble and remove the components then inspect carefully, including the balls on the spindle arms and the pitman. If those balls are out of round they must be replaced if a tie rod-drag link rebuild is to do any good. Did you drop the radius rods and inspect it's parts? We had a mostly decomposed rubber ball which I replaced with radius cap washer.

08-13-2012, 09:35 AM	#29
Jim Mason Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 914	Re: Play causing front end shake? UPDATED do you have shocks? if not, a weak front spring can allow the front end to pendulum side to side.. __________________ www.jmodela.coffeecup.com Fwiw, jm.

08-13-2012, 12:10 PM	#31
Jim Mason Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 914	Re: Play causing front end shake? UPDATED with out shocks and with a weak front spring the front axle is free to swing on the shackles. I've not tried, but you may be able get the front end off the ground, supported by the frame and see if the axle will pendulum (driver side to passenger side and back)..may be the cause. Don't let it fall on you.. __________________ www.jmodela.coffeecup.com Fwiw, jm.

08-13-2012, 01:18 PM	#32
Franchise_24 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lexington, Ohio Posts: 782	Re: Play causing front end shake? UPDATED I'm going to redo the tie rod and the drag link with new ends and look at the radius ball and go from there like others have suggested. The thing we saw with the radius ball is to remove the castle nuts to get to it the bolt or stud was just spinning. What is that a sign of? __________________ 1929 Model A Ford Coupe

08-13-2012, 05:15 PM	#37
Fred K-OR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stayton, Oregon Posts: 3,806	Re: Play causing front end shake? UPDATED Is the cross pin still in there? __________________ Fred Kroon 1929 Std Coupe 1929 Huckster

08-13-2012, 07:09 PM	#38
tdlmomowers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mansfield, Ohio Posts: 409	Re: Play causing front end shake? UPDATED Yes, the cross pin does appear to be there. How can we gain access to the bolt heads to install washers under the heads? I could not see any way to access the heads of the bolts, they appear to be located in the bell housing and I don't know how to get at them, short of pulling the engine. Is there some hidden access panel or secret way to get at the radius ball bolts?

08-14-2012, 12:11 AM	#39
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Play causing front end shake? UPDATED I switched out my rubber cap with the correct kit about 20 years ago on my 29 Tudor and did the complete job by blocking the wishbone down a few inches and installing the bolts and felt through the hole in the bottom of the housing. It wasn't too bad a job. I made some thin small diameter washers to fit under the bolt heads to take care of the worn recess and used my fingers and some wire to fish them through the hole.

08-14-2012, 05:38 AM	#40
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Play causing front end shake? UPDATED I agree that there is something loose that you're not catching yet.. Regarding the shocks, the lack of them shouldn't cause the shimmy,, but,, they will certainly affect the handling and ride.. You didn't say which shocks you had,, if they are good originals or those from Bill Stipe,, thats good.. If they are the new 'oil-less' ones[I won't mention the makers name],, they are useless..