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Old 07-27-2012, 03:40 PM   #1
329s
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Default Mig or Tig welder...

I will be soon be starting on my 1929 CCPU body in restoring it.

There are several places on the body itself that will need attention.

Also some fender issues.

I know each one, Mig and or Tig welders have their advantages and disadvantages but which one would you prefer to have to restore with?

I will fortunatly have a body that is fully intact so I will have something to go by when assembling the other.

Thanks.

Pluck
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

I can gas weld and Heli-Arc aluminum sheetmetal. I've never seen MIG welds on sheetmetal that made me want to learn MIG. TIG is the way to go IMO, if I had the money I'd own one. Bob
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

We prefer gas and hammer welding for most body work.
Tig comes next.
Mig is not considered.
We don't use any filler material, just pick and file.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

I prefer TIG,...pin point heat.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

It depends!TIG is great if you (me) have a foot switch. I think it's lousy if you have to get used to a thumb switch. I'll take my MIG any day. However, I do think the TIG Can be better, it just depends on whose machine you have. Under the right conditions, you have a lot better control of your heat. You may have seen the little blue boxes that Miller sells, Very pretty blue! Very compact! However! This is the machine that soured me on thumb switches and furthermore, the damn thing has to be shut off and cooled down every time the tungsten electrode "sticks" to the work. Maybe it's just me. But I couldn't get that machine out of here soon enough. My little 110V, Century, MIG machine is doing what I want.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

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TIG welding is by far what I prefer the most. I was a certified GMAW (tig) welder and always heard anybody can weld with MIG. Well, I got myself a MIG rig and I dont care for it. Not as precise, I guess it is the shape of the gun that puts me off. Plus less heat input with TIG.
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

Do it all,

All in one
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

Yep, yer right. Gas Tungsten Arc Welding.....my bad.
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

Anyone can weld with a MIG, or TIG, or OA, if you're willing to put in the time to practice the techniques. First-timer isn't going to pick up any of the welders and make perfect welds. Each requires different skills. All of them require you pay attention to what you're doing.
If you want to metalfinish your repairs, then get the TIG or OA setup. If your metalfinishing skills or patience isn't up to that level, the MIG can and will do a very nice job if you're willing to learn. Sheet metal welding with any welder is an advanced skill. There's more to it than just getting the metal stuck together.
All that said, I grew up with a stick welder, have done some OA, do all my welding with a MIG and would love to justfy a TIG.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

I was looking today to learn about MIG and TIG, etc. I found a forum that was very helpful. Here is one of the posts that helped me understand a little. Thought you might be interested.


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In tems of practical uses and benefits the three main arc welding processes can be summarised thus (these are general descriptions and there are of course exceptions) :

MIG : fast, economical (overall) and consistent. Reasonably easy to learn. Excellent for general steel fabrication and repetitive production. OK for aluminium and stainless. Generally works best on medium thickness metals.

TIG: Precise and controllable, for high performance applications this is usually the preferred process for almost all materials, especially exotics and very thin sections , extremely versatile. Drawbacks are that it tends to be slow, relatively expensive and requires a relatively high skill level.

Stick/MMA : relatively cheap equipment and consumables. Preferred for heavy section materials, tolerant of adverse conditions, portable. Not so good for thin sections and exotic materials. Moderate to high skill required. Well suited to heavy duty structural fabrication and maintenance.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

I just don't understand the concept of MIG. Unlike Gas or TIG there is no puddle, just chicken droppings on top of the metal. The time spent grinding off unwanted material then covering the sins with Bondo is a poor way of doing things IMO.
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TIG welding is by far what I prefer the most. I was a certified GMAW (tig) welder and always heard anybody can weld with MIG. Well, I got myself a MIG rig and I dont care for it. Not as precise, I guess it is the shape of the gun that puts me off. Plus less heat input with TIG.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

A non expert perspective. Mig is easier but will leave a hard brittle weld. Tig is a softer weld but is slower welding and will be harder to master. Mainly due to heat. A tig is simular to gas welding. If you can gas weld go right to tig.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

I have been welding for over 50 years....I am 63. I was a certified high pressure steam line welder (1200 and 600 lb) in the Navy. I did gas before MIG was cool. Did TIG after TIG was cool. If you take the time to learn and understand what is happening with heat, you can do an excellent job of welding with either TIG or MIG. TIG has a higher learning curve in my opinion. I have a large Miller MIG welder, it is great for heavier work. I have a Lincoln SP100 110v MIG welder and use argon....it does a spectacular job on sheet metal. The large Miller machine cannot hold a candle to the small Lincoln for sheet metal. I have welded patches and panels in every configuration imaginable...works well. TIG is even better IF the user UNDERSTANDS heat and its effect on metal. Preference with all things equal is TIG.

I recently used a new multifunction welder....it does TIG, MIG, and even electrode arc welding. I was very skeptical at first...but it is an amazing machine. Priced less than a grand. I am considering getting one shortly.

IMO, welding is more about the welder's skill level, understanding of the physics of heat and metal, and PATIENCE rather than the type of welding machine. It takes some time to learn to do it well...and it can be very frustrating for the new guy. I do not use gas any longer except for infrequent need for brazing.

How do you know when you have "arrived" as a good welder? When the panel is not warped and there is little need for much grinding or filler. Take your time and learn how. A couple friends of mine took some classes at a local junior college...got them off on the right foot.

Good luck!!!!

PS: Another tip....try using a strong light to illuminate the area you are welding. Easier to see exactly what your weld is looking like as you weld. For the new welder, it is hard to see what you are doing using the helmet with most light from the weld itself. Works for me anyway.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

Roadster . . you are absolutely wrong. Of course there is a puddle. What you describe is poor welding. Anyone can pick up a MIG torch and make "something" immediately. But don't think that is true welding. You either haven't been taught correctly or haven't seen a good MIG welding bead.

As for which is best...no doubt a TIG weld is a cleaner, more precise weld bead. But to me what it boils down to is . . . is a TIG needed ?? IMO, in most instances, no. It does have it's place, no doubt!! It's a beautiful welding system. But it's more expensive in start up costs and just not for everyone. If you are a good gas welder, you can be a good TIG welder. MIG is easier . . but as Roadster showed us . . it all isn't done right just because it's easier
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

A welding bead is a series of puddles.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

The MIG welds I've seen were "Orange County Chopper" style MIG welds. Close your eyes and zap type welds. The MIG unit I've had a chance to use just spits out wire there is NO CONTROL what so ever. Gas and TIG you get to add rod to a puddle. MIG is a totally different concept. I felt good about all the stick welds I put down on heavy gauge steel, strick has a puddle too. I'm sure there are MIG welders that do fine work, stuff I've seen was ugly, and there was nothing that attracted me to learning MIG. Bob
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Roadster . . you are absolutely wrong. Of course there is a puddle. What you describe is poor welding. Anyone can pick up a MIG torch and make "something" immediately. But don't think that is true welding. You either haven't been taught correctly or haven't seen a good MIG welding bead.
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Last edited by Roadster62; 07-27-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:09 PM   #17
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

I did a lot of MIG work. First on a 66 Mustang and then started on the cabriolet. Mid way through the cabriolet I had been drooling over what I had seen done with TIG and stumbled into this huge old Miller 330A/BP TIG welder for cheap ($600). Even with the start run relay wired backwards it still was so much nicer. Now with the foot pedal actually working the precise work I can do is out of this world.

When looking for a welder understand a cheap low end welder can work, usually the setting you need is between the settings you can set. A better welder is easier to use and gives you more options. For a TIG welder I have only used a High Freq start, some have a touch start. I know some have modified the Harbor Freight low end TIG to have a foot pedal which changes how useful it can be.

The proper accessories makes a difference. Going to a instant dark hood did wonders for my welding. As I approached 40 my close up sight went away and found the cheater lenses (magnifying lenses) that you buy at the welding store made a huge difference.

All the welding knowledge is useless if you do not understand what happens with metal when you weld it. In particular you must understand that any weld is a shrink point and must be corrected with hammer on dolly work. See my website for hints.

A final note. If you go to Tin Man Tech you will find he talks about and sells some micro oxy act torches that get closer to the control of TIG for less money.
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Old 07-28-2012, 03:32 AM   #18
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

Im a ICAR certified autobody mechanic of 17 years. ICar is the equivilant of ASE in the mechanics field Im also ASE certified. and the standard in any body shop is mig with 60/40 argon/0xygen mix. Tig is also accepted but most shops don't have them because of the expence and most of the body men don't know how to use them.There are lots of mig machines out there.also ICAR does not whant you to use a flux core machine. the welds are not as good. welding on sheetmetal is different than welding on a nise 1/4 in plate, the metal is thinner and requires cool down between welds or I should say tach welds. once you practice on a few pieces of scrap to tune your machine to the metal you are welding than put the patches in . don't skip the test panels if you do you will probably end up with a realy warped door skin ,back panel, and cowel panels. and will need to put way more bondo than is nessasery for the repair.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:37 AM   #19
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

Thank you Popeye31 for confirming my above opservation that MIG is a good anchor for Bondo. Classic coachbuilders of the Model A era gas welded sheetmetal to produce the cars we love today. Bob
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: Mig or Tig welder...

Popeye31, are you sure it's 40 % oxygen, most of the blends I have seen are 2-5% oxygen.

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