Sad tale- another one lost

[theHIGHLANDER]

Nice topic, nice tone so far. Something else to think about though. We're into another generation shift. That's a nice way of saying older collectors are leaving us in the obvious way. Their stuff is coming out at a much higher rate lately. It happens. When it does, there's the potential to spark new-found appreciation for the gennie vs the rod. The stuff that was hidden away for decades for whatever reason is like opening King Tut's tomb sometimes, finding treasure that gives you goose bumps. I get around to a lot of national events, mostly the high end stuff, but I see a lot more. Anyone notice the latest dash to brass? Cars from the "0's" and teens are seeing new life, new owners. Hell I'm seeing new cars sometimes, stuff I never knew was left. Same with the big cars like Packards and such.

It might seem like we're the whole world sometimes, but we're really small in the big picture. I've had the most dumbfounded experiences on the road and at normal places. 1 day I was out putting some test miles on a Duesenberg Murphy Roadster. What a grand feeling, what a privilege, WHAT A CAR! I was shocked at how many people didn't even know I was there. I mean here I am in a massive million dollar legend of an automobile. I pulled into a gas station for fuel, clearly many were as taken as I was, but most were simply ambivilent to it. Not that I cared much, and it gave me a strange sense of security, but how do you NOT notice it? Easy. You could care less. Snookie's on TV. Gotta go pay a bill. Texting. Whatever it is, the largest portion of our population would rather they all go to the scrap heap for good, even the Duesy. The appreciation for our cars is special and unique. It's not for everyone and I for one wouldn't have any other way.

FWIW, I'm not much for the idea of "caretaker". I'd rather be part of a car's history as it's owner than to be a caretaker. Hard to put to words. Maybe someone else can help me out there...

[ursus]

This recalls a late 60's episode that illustrates the idiocy of youth. The two eightball brothers next door came up with a mint 30,000 mile 1950 Buick, straight "8", 3 speed manual transmission, for $50 from the proverbial little old widow lady. We got it up to 100 MPH on the interstate but it was slow off the line. The brothers put the car on some scales and claimed it weighed 4200 pounds, so they decided to reduce the weight for the sake of speed. Off came anything that looked heavier than a walnut and was accessible with hand tools and breaker bars. Every day more parts came off and were tossed in the trash - fender skirts, back seat, spare tire, bumpers, door liners, heating system, trim, etc. and every day the car got a bit faster. That is until they pulled off the old knee action shocks and the car became completely unmanageable at over 50 MPH. It would float all over the road like a rudderless boat. The result: a once excellent and well-maintained piece of automotive engineering reduced to a destruction derby torpedo that only lasted through next Saturday night. I think they got $25 for it.

[columbiA]

As for those that think you have to make their A a rod in order to cruise at a decent speed,get it in top shape mechanicaly,put a 5.5 or 5.9 head on it and an overdrive & you can cruise at 60 mph with no problem.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by columbiA

As for those that think you have to make their A a rod in order to cruise at a decent speed,get it in top shape mechanicaly,put a 5.5 or 5.9 head on it and an overdrive & you can cruise at 60 mph with no problem.

That's exactly what I was just getting ready to post. I've never felt the need for speed, and with the high price of gas today even keeping the modern car 60 or less will save gas.

Not to stir the pot, but I always find it strange that a hot rod guy would come to a restoration/preservation site and try to justify why the Model A's should be or need to be changed/chopped into rods. That would be like a Baptist going to a Methodist church and telling the congregation why they need to become Baptists.

[pooch]

Originally Posted by columbiA

As for those that think you have to make their A a rod in order to cruise at a decent speed,get it in top shape mechanicaly,put a 5.5 or 5.9 head on it and an overdrive & you can cruise at 60 mph with no problem.

And where is the "restoration" in fitting a hi comp head.... an overdrive...hydraulic brakes.....floating engine mounts...seat belts......LED lights.......insert bearings....welded or bolted crank weights....etc etc......just to be absolutely flat out at 60 mph.

[mjw]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by ctlikon0712

I agree with both sides with one exception, I'm not so sure that there so many of our cars are left... especially if you look at them by model and year. Also, if you look at the classifieds, there appears to be more modified and rod's than originals.... I can appreciate the time and engineering to make a nice Rod, just don't cut up a nice car to do it and don't leave it looking half done!

I'm not sure I agree with not many original cars being left. Most of my Hot Rod buddies buy/sell and build cars and change them like shoes so you see a lot of them for sale or being traded for something else. Most of my Original car buddies will keep, or plan to keep their cars until they die so not many of them are for sale unless it is an estate or an older guy (I'm 47 so you need to be at least 80 to be an older guy) thinning the heard but still hanging onto his favorite even if he can't drive it.

[al's28/33]

Excellent conversation Gents! My two cents here is that were are the caretakers of history. This is 2012 and our "A"s are 80 years old. The rodder craze has slowed a bit since these cars were in their younger days. The baby boomers are now retiring and the next generation has been more interested in the muscle cars of the 60s thru 80s. In another 20 years our "A"s will be 100 years old and I believe they will be treasured for their authenticity. I also believe a well done hot rod will be cherished for it's originality and workmanship. One for how it was maintained as it came off the assembly line and the other for the genius and craftsmanship of the guy who chopped it and built his own machine.
I just hope I never see an "A" with spinners.

[Richard Wilson]

Virtually EVERY "original" style Model A owner that I know owns two or more "original" style Model A's with several owning five or more. After collecting and rebuilding Model A's, parts and collectibles for the last 30 years I have finally realized that I can't save them all. I think that there are more Model A's around than most realize.

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Not to stir the pot, but I always find it strange that a hot rod guy would come to a restoration/preservation site and try to justify why the Model A's should be or need to be changed/chopped into rods. That would be like a Baptist going to a Methodist church and telling the congregation why they need to become Baptists.

Where else are we going to sell original A parts for pennies on the dollar? Would you prefer that we send them to the scrap yard?

[William Kelchner]

I agree there are many A's stashed away out there. Watching the show "American Pickers" on A&E/History Channel there for awhile when these guys went into these old barns and sheds looking for treasures there always seemed to be a Model A sitting all covered with stuff and in numerous cases more than one. Yep, they are many hidden away - getting owners to part with them is another matter....

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Where else are we going to sell original A parts for pennies on the dollar? Would you prefer that we send them to the scrap yard?

Good Point!

[PO51]

A few years ago I rescued a 68A body that was going to be "Hot Rodded" it is very rough, but considering that it was a rarer body style I had to save it. It now sits on a 29 frame with a nice set of fenders, and I have another 68A parts car wirh most of the top parts. Still have no clue when I will get time to work on it, but it is at least safe for now.

[Roadster62]

I'll second that observation. Bob

Originally Posted by Richard Wilson

I have told many restorers the last 10 to 15 years "Don't hate the rodders that is where most of the good original parts for your restorations are coming from now."

[Tinbasher]

Everyone has a different dream. Original, Rod, Race Car Etc. If your having some fun and the cars getting driven that's what it's about. I've been restoring my 28 Sports Coupe for 25 years. I'll find all the right parts yet. Getting close.

The Old Tinbasher

[columbiA]

Pooch--How come you think I would be flat out at 60 mph?In reality with gear ratios of4.11 & 2.94 in OD you loaf along at 60 with same RPM as you would at 43 in 3rd gear.I could easily go faster,but 60 is fast enough for me.If you live in an area with very little traffic,then its fine to putt along at 45,but around here if you cant maintain a decent speed,you will get run over.That is the reason I got rid of my model T,s-I loved them but they were just too slow for present conditions.

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by newshirt

Here's my unofficial and uneducated collector-car assessment:
- 85% of all collectors prefer hotrods (gosh, who doesn't?)
- 13% prefer highly modified cars
- 2% prefer bone stock

So, when the Model A hits its 100th birthday, 85% will be hacked-up rods, 13% will be rodded but recognizable, and 2% will be pretty close to original.

I wish I could say I was in the 2%, but I've already got whitewalls and a high compression head. Or maybe I'll go back...

i am the 2% that likes them stock because of the technology.If you change it too much you might as well have a modern car with a replica fibreglass body. And as for the ones that get cut up & never finnished, what is up with that? If you suddenly lost all your money that is understandable or if you found a body at the dump with no floor, bottom 6 inches missing & grass growing out the holes in the roof for $10 i can understand maybe not finnishing it...

[pooch]

Maybe those with whitewalls or an overdrive or a high comp head or a second tail light or a counterweighted crank or modern points or Ted's floaters or hydraulic brakes or seat belts or extra rear view mirrors should leave this forum and go over to the H.A.M.B.

How many have a bone stock as delivered car?

[theHIGHLANDER]

Pooch, not to diss ya any, but that's semantics. Stock in general is the same engine, brakes, trans and body that was manufactured. I figure a stocker that has been upgraded some for simple driveability is actually ok. You still experience the Model A as it was. Now add a flathead or a SBC, now we're so far from stock that that removes what the A is or was. I'm on the fence regarding things like juice brakes and OD. Safer stops, higher speeds, I couldn't take a stand there.

This particular car in all of it's simplicity, for it's initial low price when new, it's nostalgic appeal to the masses for decades, it simply begged to be changed up some by the more than 4 million original buyers. There were aftermarket parts right from the start, sort of like the Motorsports program Ford has now, but maybe not so directed to hot rodding. Tires, accesories, camping gear, heaters, defroster fans...original?

It's hard to get caught up in the "As Delivered" direction in a restoration. Costly too.

[Chris in WNC]

do not want to stir the puddin' too much here, but always have to disagree with those who say a mostly stock Model A cannot be driven and enjoyed with reasonalble safety on the highway.
if your brakes, steering and shocks are functioning as intended, all is well. the only decision to take is: do you want to drive at 50 mph (stock) or 60 mph (bolt-on mods like HC head & Mitchell OD).
planning to drive from NC to both national meets this summer.......

[dumb person]

Know what would be cool? Reproduction brookville roadster things with mechanical brakes, mechanical DISK brakes. But i am weird like that