Sad tale- another one lost

[700rpm]

Awfugeddaboudit. I've deleted my original post here because the comments degenerated into that tired, worn out, boring, dead horse argument about "what's stock" or "rods versus originals". That discussion is old, hashed, off-topic, and worthless, and missed my point entirely. I'm sorry I ever brought it up. (See post #16)

[H. L. Chauvin]

Ray,

Remember the year was 1959, typical little old lady story, had a 1932 Chevrolet coupe with less than 50,000 miles, garage kept, washed, waxed & vacuumed often by local, very knowledgeable old time service station attendant, new Sears tires, upholstery immaculate, sold for $50.00 to a teenager.

Many drooled just to see it, offers over $3,000.00 to buy were refused, new young owner had different dreams, cut perimeter slice through doors, windshield, etc. to lower top & to look "cool", painted red, then nobody wanted it if it were given for free.

Thrill wore off, two years later, it was hauled off to the junk yard.

It was his to do as he wanted, & he did; but now says he would give anything to have it back in same original condition.

Very typical reocurrence!

[Richard Wilson]

I have told many restorers the last 10 to 15 years "Don't hate the rodders that is where most of the good original parts for your restorations are coming from now."

[denis4x4]

Gee, that's almost as sad as the old boy with half a dozen A's in his backyard refusing to sell them as "I'm going to restore them one of thse days". In the meantime, they rust away to the point that they're no good to a hot rodder or a restorer.

[Greg Jones]

Yep seen it too many times where a guy takes a nice restorable car and starts hacking it up (chopping, channeling,etc.) and soon realizes that it costs a fortune to customize a car, especially to do it tastefully. Then it gets relegated to junk. I have also seen the hoarders....there is a guy near Grand Junction Colorado with at least a dozen original Model A's. Fortunately it is dry there. In Washington state, I came across a line up of about 8 cars I had never seen. Studebaker Golden Hawks, all rotting away into the ground....

[dlshady]

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Originally Posted by Richard Wilson

I have told many restorers the last 10 to 15 years "Don't hate the rodders that is where most of the good original parts for your restorations are coming from now."

Quoted for truth....

[columbiA]

Back in 58,I had a 35-3 window coupe with the smoothest running FH Ive ever had.Sold it to a kid as his first car.A week later,he had hack-sawed the top off it and of course,the doors wouldnt stay closed on it.It wasnt long and I never saw it again.

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

A sad story indeed. I managed to save a '30 tudor about 50 years ago.
I restored it back to original and never had to regret doing so. I'm sure I would have
been sad if I had chopped it up. I actually like hot rods,but could never cut
up an original. Maybe I'll save my pennies and buy a Brookville Roadster. That
way I can have it------and be guilt free, lol.

Jack

[theHIGHLANDER]

I'm so on the fence with this topic.

1st ingredient, value:

What's worth more? A very good to perfectly restored Model A coupe, or one with a 3" chop, no fenders, nice engineering, flathead or SBC for power? Odds are that the rod is worth more, and lately has developed it's own sense of nostalgia and fondness. Sometimes they're worth the same depending on how well done, but the rods has an audience of buyers in the 10s of thousands vs the few who'd demand a gennie.

2nd ingredient, effort:

To truely r e s t o r e a Model A isn't as simple as it may seem if your standards are high. Clearly good body work and paint are required on both, so that's a wash. But parts can be an issue. While you can damn near build a whole car from repro parts, they aren't the same. That alone is nearly a daily topic just here. Now that really gennie A will have to wait until you can shag everything you need to really feel what it was that Henry and his boys designed and produced. Repro stuff can get you going, but if judging is in your car's future you got some hunting and hoarding ahead of you. The rod is easier in some ways (been done for decades) and clearly a lot faster to get on the road. "No rules".

3rd ingredient, rarity:

4 million Model As were built. How rare are they? If you want a really good one, you still have to be either very lucky, or you need to travel. Some of that travel has been made easier thanks to the 'net, but even then it ain't easy. But you can get one tomorrow if you want one, just maybe not the body you want. What's the all in enthusiast to do?


We become the last ingredient. The happy Model A owner. I want both. I want a rod and a gennie. I got the gennie, the 31 pickup. The rod has to be a 30-31 cpe. No fenders, Deuce frame, 3" chop. Sacrilege? Not to me because it's what I want. There's cars out there that should never be rodded for sure. Some don't even look good rodded, but that's where the As and other early Fords are behind the 8 ball. They look as normal rodded as they do OEM. At least to me they do. In the end it's yours/theirs to do as you/they wish. That independence will never guarantee good taste, and we've all seen some shameful things done to our lovely little As. At least they don't get scrapped like they used to. My dear departed Dad probably scrapped hundreds of them himself in the late 40s when scrap was high. He'd buy em for $5-15 from behind garages and such, burn em out, and get anywhere from $50-100 for the scrap. All kinds of forgotten cars, not just As. Even given that, while there may not be 4 million left, there's still enough to go around. The best thing that we can do is teach the next generations the best of all worlds related to the early Fords. It's all good stuff.

[biggeorge]

Well said Highlander

[700rpm]

Highlander, thanks for your comment. But to me, Model As are like the dodo bird. At one time there were millions of them also. People felt they could be killed at random and there would always be another one in the next hunt. But then there wasn't. Now there are none.

We often hear, "It's your car; you can do what you want with it." I've even said that at times. But lately I've come to think of myself more as a caretaker than an owner. Yes, the car is "mine" at this moment, and probably will be until I die. But don't I have a debt to the future?

There used to be millions of Model As and finding a good one wasn't difficult. But when a good one gets rodded, it means one less original. And there are too many that are destroyed beyond saving as, or returning to, original by well-intentioned rodders who for one reason or another don't finish them. Here is where I wish those who want a rod would do their shopping: find one of these incompletes and finish it.

We still have the luxury of many Model As being available. But that won't always be true. I think I have a responsibility to preserve my cars so that my grandchildren or great-grandchildren (or other generations) will be able to see and hear what a 1929 Ford was really like. (This assumes, of course, that there will be some sort of fuel that they can run on.) I think I owe this to posterity.

I'm not trying to argue you into my position, but rather just show you the view from my driver's seat.

[jeep44]

I used to find and restore old British motorcycles back in the '80s and '90s. Back then, I went to all the swap meets to gather up the original parts that guys pitched away when they were making 'Easy Rider" choppers, and I made those bikes look like the day they left the plant. Nowdays, young guys hate the stock look, and all want to make "bobbers" out of those 'original' Britbikes,and they have no use for those parts I spent so much time digging up. Tastes change, and there's not much we can do about it.

[norson]

I think one part of this topic has been overlooked. I bought a '31 68c Cabriolet "body". The lower six inches is rusted away. The quarter panels are "lace" in several areas. The doors are the worst. It wasn't even good for donor parts. I am going to attempt to "restore" this body and make a car out of it to the best of my ability. Would you want to be the one to be the proud new owner of this "restored" Model A. In looking for parts for the 68c I found the remains of a very late '31 Victoria. I got the frame, the cowl, steering and radiator and shell. I am very reluctant to cannibalize these parts for the 68c. Will I ever be able to find the parts to complete it? I grew up as a rodder, but even at the age of 14 (in '57) I couldn't cut the '30 sport coupe I had to make the "roadster" I wanted. Many of these rodders have preserved the bodies and made available the parts we need for our restorations. I, too go crazy when I see a nice car go under the knife, but I think there is room for us all. Norm Henderson

[myfirst36]

there are plenty of hot rodders out there who take the most decrepid, rusted away piles of hulls and they bring them back to life and put them back on the road...for the sake of keeping the old tin on the road. You need to remember that Hot rods have their place in history too; and if he's preserving the era of hot rodding "that truly was" then all the more better. For every hot rod; there are 10+ restored original versions.

I'm a younger person and we fully enjoy everything historice. we enjoy stock/restored cars and we also heavily enjoy hot rods. We're one of those people you hate. We bought a survivor 1930 Coupe and it's going to be turned into a hot rod. It's not going to be a rat rod, half done, pile of crap. It's not going to be spray painted black. All of the parts we did not want went to Ford Barn members to go on their cars. We're going to build a car that represents another era in history, and another chapter in Model A's history.

We had all intentions of keeping the car as-is and driving it for awhile but after one drive around town decided it wasn't what we wanted to drive in stock-form. I'm sorry but we don't want to drive 40-50mph tops all of the time. We wanted a car to have fun in and take on the highway and go on vacation with and so a traditional hot rod is what it's going to be.

The problem with shopping for someone else's project is that you are buying someone else's potential hack job. You dont know what you're getting into. We started with a virtually rust free car that we can make our own. We're not starting with someone else's half done "vision"

There's room for everyone in this hobby and every car has its place in representing a point in history.

[William Kelchner]

I've owned a few older vehicles in my time as most on the forum. First was a 34 Plymouth coupe I bought for $35 and drove it home, I was 15 (1955) so he accompanied me. Its gone now and I sure wish I had it back. Went in the service and he sold it to a rodder. Had 28 Dodge Bros, 30 Chevy, 35 Chevy and now my 64 Imp Conv and 30 Model A. It is cheaper now to go the Barrett Jackson and buy the car you want, or participate in raffles which I do.

Reading a restoration article in Hemmings a while back I was amused when the writer mentioned how hard it has become finding sheet metal for oldies ---- he referred the sheet metal as being made of "unobtanium".

[700rpm]

To myfirst36: I did not say rods do not have a place in saving old metal. Nor did say I hated anyone. Please don't misconstrue my original post or read things in that aren't there. I was only lamenting the loss of another stock and mostly original Model A. I was not and am not attempting to ignite the tired old arguments about "which is better" or "damn those rodders". In fact, I almost deleted my first post on this because I figured somebody would take it like that. And sure enough...

[ronn]

There are still a ton of A's out there-
The question to me-rod or stock-who is enjoying them?
A 1000 point original car means nothing to me if it is going to sit in the garage forever.
and a chopped nice stock car that becomes trash, is no good to anyone either.
In the end, it is up to the owner, no matter what anyone else's opinion is....

[newshirt]

Here's my unofficial and uneducated collector-car assessment:
- 85% of all collectors prefer hotrods (gosh, who doesn't?)
- 13% prefer highly modified cars
- 2% prefer bone stock

So, when the Model A hits its 100th birthday, 85% will be hacked-up rods, 13% will be rodded but recognizable, and 2% will be pretty close to original.

I wish I could say I was in the 2%, but I've already got whitewalls and a high compression head. Or maybe I'll go back...

[pooch]

At least my rod will get driven almost daily.

It will be able to run and stop and handle with safety on the highway.

My original unrestored phaeton moved for the first time in almost a year last sunday, it has almost ceased being fun almost getting killed on the highway every time I go out in it.

It has occured to me that the only time I have fun in it is at 6 am driving down the highway at my own speed on my own.

So, it may be "" one more lost" but at least a rod will most probably be seen more by the public.

We have a few rods in our historic car club, and they get the most attention by the most people.

I think a tastefully built 60/70/s era rod is a part of history now too.

[ctlikon0712]

I agree with both sides with one exception, I'm not so sure that there so many of our cars are left... especially if you look at them by model and year. Also, if you look at the classifieds, there appears to be more modified and rod's than originals.... I can appreciate the time and engineering to make a nice Rod, just don't cut up a nice car to do it and don't leave it looking half done!