Time warp

[real550A]

The wait is finally over, and seems well worth it! Here's the latest to claim a spot in our new shop!
This was sold as a 4800 original mile car, and after close inspection, I agree.
Probably the most unmolested original '31 I've seen, nothing missing and nothing modified, that I've found, so far. The interior is quite nice, just a couple holes in the headliner. Keys fit the locks, rubber on the pedals and footrest, floorboards are clean and solid.
The undercarriage looks factory fresh. Weakest points are some surface rust where paint is sunburned, and it needs a top.
It runs and drives like a new one! 5 aired up Garfields and a beautiful leather
rumble seat. I'm sure I'll post a few more pictures in time. Mike

[Chris in WNC]

hope you can drive it to one of the national meets this summer, it would be great to see it in person.....

[Steve Wastler]

Mike, Looks great, can't wait to see more pictures. Wish my shop was as big as yours, mines aweful tight with the 3 A's, 4 motorcycles, four wheeler, and my tools, I can only squeeze around, Have to move an A out to get to the bikes and larger tools, makes it hard on the bad weather days....

[juke joint johnny]

What an original car!!! must be one of the lowest mileage one's around

What's the story behind it ? It would be interesting to hear.

[Joop]

Great car

Do you have any pictures from under the hood.

Thanks

[Brother A]

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Mike,
How and where was that stored to keep in in such great shape?

Steve

[Airsho93]

Looks great. Question? Did the A's have a dome light or was that added on? I would like to have one in my 30A coupe.

[real550A]

Sorry for the slow response, I left on business shortly after the car was delivered. I'll be back this afternoon. I'll bring a serviceable battery with me, so I can give the car a good "shakedown" and will post more pics.
Airsho93- The Deluxe Coupes had a factory dome light.

[Vanspeed]

Are the red wheels original?

[real550A]

Vanspeed- The red wheels are the original paint....not one bent spoke!
Joop- Here's a couple engine shots, with spots where I sprayed PB Blaster.
Although the car is not corroded, it has had some less than stellar mechanic work done. The distributor lock screw is stripped and loose, starter foot rod is cross threaded. All in all, she's in great shape, and fell into the right hands.
I'll probably keep this one.

[John Stone]

Do you have a picture of the safety wire on the motor mount bolts?

That is quite a car.

[real550A]

Thanks John, I'll try to get some pics of the motor mounts this week. Working a lot, so
won't have much time to play.
I have now discovered a small, but irritating short in the distributor, causing a little erratic running. I'll have to pull it out and go through it next.

[Kurt in NJ]

Before you go driving don't forget to fill the steering gear, and check the other fluids.---if it has been sitting along time it woulf be good to drop the pan and clean it out, many times I have found 2-3" of sludge in the bottom of the pan blocking the oil screen on cars that have sat ---it may have oil pressure at first, but it onl;y takes a small clump of sludge to move over the screen to shut off oil flow

[Bugsy]

That is awesome!!! I don't think that I've ever heard of one like that!! I love the interior!! Like the title of the thread said...TIMEWARP!!

[real550A]

Thanks Kurt, after I put the distributor back in, the car will go on the lift for a change
of all fluids front to rear. The wheels and drums will come off for a brake inspection, and the chassis will get a full grease job. The underside of this car is nicer than the topside!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Mike, do you know the history of this car?

[real550A]

Finally found time to get it on the lift. I think this car is nicer underneath than it is
on top! The only corrosion is on the engine pans where fluids must have eaten the paint. Even the battery box is still factory paiinted.

[Maclab58]

All I can say is WOW! Don't touch a thing!

[30modelA]

Originally Posted by Steve Wastler

Mike, Looks great, can't wait to see more pictures. Wish my shop was as big as yours, mines aweful tight with the 3 A's, 4 motorcycles, four wheeler, and my tools, I can only squeeze around, Have to move an A out to get to the bikes and larger tools, makes it hard on the bad weather days....

id put those wheelers outside for that car lol

[30modelA]

whats that pedal next to the foot feed. two speed rear end?

[real550A]

Maclab58- I agree, I will treat the corroded areas to stop deterioration, that is all.
30modelA- The shop will get bigger once the fishing guides get their boats out for the season! I'm lucky enough to have other out buildings to keep the 4 wheeler, Bobcat and tractors in.

[mot]

good example of how the underside was painted

[real550A]

30- That's the factory foot rest!

[LukeDahlinger]

What's the history of this car? I see a few things in your photos that don't look right for an original car with low miles.

[real550A]

Tom, this is truly a good example of almost everything Henry did in 1931. It doesn't appear that any nut, bolt, or washer has been disturbed except the distributor parts.
I'm sure someone had to work on that to get it running after all this time.
I was told the car sat in a private collection in Virginia for over 55 years. It has state of Virginia inspection receipts in the door pouch from the early '70s that indicate
just over 3400 miles. It now has 4844 miles.

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

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That pedal by the gas feed is the foot rest. It was standard and is adjustable so you
could raise it or have it the same height as the feed button or you could raise it just
enough to clear your feed if you wanted to coast, or maybe just cruise with the throttle opened a tad. I never used mine and a lot of guys remove them completely.

Jack

[real550A]

Luke- What in particular? I'll look closer.

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Believe me, I'm not trying to pick your car apart, it's beautiful, but what's with that tailpipe hanger?

[poweredbylincoln]

gorgeous!!!!!!!!! would LOVE to have that in the garage!!!

[Tudortomnz]

Thats just beautiful. Everything does look 'right' for a very low mileage car. Are you really certain about the red wheels? Red usually fades over the years to a washed out shade. Must have always been in the dark! I always liked to see photos of the late Dave Lopes '29 fordor & thought there would not be another Model A of such low miles.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by real550A

Luke- What in particular? I'll look closer.

I am not a judge and, by no means do I know anything about original cars in general but, I also see several things that would not be on a low mileage untouched car. For one and in my opinion the most obvious is the exhaust system is not original and is probably only 15 or so years old. Henry didn't have aluminized pipe and he used mandril bent pipe. That pipe is obviously bent on a modern exhaust bender. The rear hanger has been replaced with, I don't know what.
The heater door is not original even if the hole for it is. Why was the heater manifold replaced with an obviously well used standard manifold? To just mention a few. I don't want to pick the car apart but, I feel if you are left to your blindness it will only lead to embarrassment somewhere down the line. I would question this being so original.

[theHIGHLANDER]

I'm pretty sure it's mostly original, but things like the exhaust/manifold/heater could have been a tad rusty or corroded when it was 1st "unearthed". If it was discovered in the 70s and made to run, well those things were not that important back then. In typical OEM fashion I notice how the floors were painted in a hasty or even "lazy" way. Not a lot of coverage. I also notice the chassis black is quite flat. Old enamel fades fast with no protection on it. I'd give that car a massive bath of mild soap and water from top to bottom. No better way to learn about, and get intimate with, the details surrounding this thing.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

I'm pretty sure it's mostly original, but things like the exhaust/manifold/heater could have been a tad rusty or corroded when it was 1st "unearthed". If it was discovered in the 70s and made to run, well those things were not that important back then. In typical OEM fashion I notice how the floors were painted in a hasty or even "lazy" way. Not a lot of coverage. I also notice the chassis black is quite flat. Old enamel fades fast with no protection on it. I'd give that car a massive bath of mild soap and water from top to bottom. No better way to learn about, and get intimate with, the details surrounding this thing.

Mostly original but not untouched. There are more questions. The head looks to have been removed sometime.

[LukeDahlinger]

I see lots of modern fasteners, the wear on the pedals is not indicative of a low mile car, extra spring on the throttle, non original spring shackles, repro terminal box, non original kick panels, chrome plated brake handle, are the things that stand out in my mind.

Like James, I too question the originality. I'd just hate to see you pay a premium price for what I believe is an older restoration.

[Joop]

I have to agree with Luke and James

Next update maybe this coming Sunday?.

..

[1931 flamingo]

When this thread first started I, like others, was in awe, but in the back of my mind was the "voice" that said: too good to be true. I'm wondering if we have an earlier "restored" car with an odometer that was zeroed?? Not trying to burst anybody's bubble, but I tend to look at the glass as half empty, a fault of mine that has plagued me most of my life, always the negative.
paul in CT
paul in CT

[real550A]

No offense taken guys, I'm not anywhere near the expert on the details of originality as many of you. My description is only based upon what I'm looking at and how it was represented by the third owner. The exhaust system would be one thing I wouldn't expect to last 81 years.
Tudortomnz- The wheels have a chalky, faded look up close, and all 5 match.

[RonC]

the hood latches are backwards?

[real550A]

Jim and Paul- I value the input from both of you, and the others on this fine forum.
I'm happy to be learning as I go, so you don't have to tread lightly here. One day
soon, Tom W. has offered to take a look in person, and I'm sure I'll become more aware during that visit!

[Joop]

"The heater door is not original even if the hole for it is. Why was the heater manifold replaced with an obviously well used standard manifold? "

I have an original Coupe and it has the dealer? installed heather door and car came with late manifold and heather manifold was in the trunk.


..

[real550A]

The car does have a "NK" (Norfolk, VA. plant) body stamp, so it doesn't appear to have gone too far from home during its life! Engine build date is June 2nd, '31, so would late '31 assembly be probable?

[RonC]

no matter what you find out it's still a nice car!

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Joop

"The heater door is not original even if the hole for it is. Why was the heater manifold replaced with an obviously well used standard manifold? "

I have an original Coupe and it has the dealer? installed heather door and car came with late manifold and heather manifold was in the trunk.


..

I agree these were dealer installed not factory. The door is not an original. It is a later accessory door probably from the 60's.

[Joop]

Pictures


..

[d.j. moordigian]

Nice !

One easy way to check the originality,.....look at the running board braces, at the
rear, through the hole, at the paint.

[FL&WVMIKE]

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Real550A .........................
What a beautiful car !
It gets me that some people think that every single part should be the original part after 80 years !
Keep it as it is. Don't paint a thing. Treat that rust with GIBBS OIL.
Thanks for posting !
MIKE

[James Rogers]

It's not that we think it should, it's that he says it is and it isn't. Just trying to keep him from being embarrassed in a public area. Some people are not as gentle with their comments as most here.

[Vanspeed]

The original red on the wheels kinda made me think twice about it. Still a very nice car.

[1931 flamingo]

Joop: Are the pictures YOU posted of your coupe or the subject of this thread??
Thanks
Paul in CT

[Joop]

I was posting them after James Rogers Remark about the heater door in the Real550A
Coupe

[jan bogert]

30model a, thats a foot rest for when your useing the hand throttle. my '31 coupe has one too.

[Stinch]

Very nice car. Are the torque tube to differential bolts wired?

Rich

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Joop

I was posting them after James Rogers Remark about the heater door in the Real550A
Coupe

Joop, I agreed the dealers installed heater doors and manifolds but they were not installed at the factory. Your door is a dealer install but the one in reals coupe is aftermarket and not like yours.

[31Tudor]

I find it a little odd that if it was billed as a truly original, low mileage car that the coil, radiator hoses and fan belt have all been replaced. Rubber tips were put on the coil wire ends, the entire exhaust system was replaced, the finish on the fender bolts looks cad instead of raven and the intake manifold looks black. Seems like quite a few thing have been altered in some way.

[real550A]

I'm learning through all of your comments that this might not be as original as the
third owner represented. As I said in an earlier post, I'm not an originality expert, so
I did rely somewhat on what I was told. As far as coil/wire, hoses, muffler, etc., I would expect on an 81 year old car that some of the expendable parts would be replaced. I do appreciate your input to establish exactly what I have here.

[theHIGHLANDER]

Originally Posted by 31Tudor

I find it a little odd that if it was billed as a truly original, low mileage car that the coil, radiator hoses and fan belt have all been replaced. Rubber tips were put on the coil wire ends, the entire exhaust system was replaced, the finish on the fender bolts looks cad instead of raven and the intake manifold looks black. Seems like quite a few thing have been altered in some way.

There's several factory pictures in DeAngelis' book with both cad and raven finish bolts on the fenders.

[31Tudor]

"There's several factory pictures in DeAngelis' book with both cad and raven finish bolts on the fenders"

True, but I think you will find that cad was 28-29 and raven finish was 31. In my opinion an unmolested car would not have had the fender hardware changed.

[columbiA]

After seeing all the photos,I am pretty sure its a 60,s or early 70,s resto.A lot ofearly restos start to look like low mile originals after that length of time.In reality,some would say that its due to be restored again!Never the less,its a very nice car.

[LukeDahlinger]

From the photos, the fasteners themselves do not appear to be original as 31Tudor stated. They aren't the thick headed style Ford used.

Mike, can you post some larger photos? That would help show us things and can give you a better opinion.

I'm not an original upholstery expert, but as I stated previously the kick panels do not look original. I'm willing to bet the seat covers and door panels have been changed too. Lift up the seat cushion when you get a chance and see if there's any evidence of foam padding.

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by real550A

I'm learning through all of your comments that this might not be as original as the
third owner represented. As I said in an earlier post, I'm not an originality expert, so
I did rely somewhat on what I was told. As far as coil/wire, hoses, muffler, etc., I would expect on an 81 year old car that some of the expendable parts would be replaced. I do appreciate your input to establish exactly what I have here.

I have a late 1931 Coupe that was restored in the 60's, but over the years has been subjected to some less than optimum storage conditions and it could almost pass as a twin to this car. Paint slightly deteriorated, cad plating a little dull, etc... Not trying to burst your bubble but I think a lot of guys here have hit the nail on the head. I think you're going to find this is most likely an older restoration that was driven and enjoyed. The wear on the brake pedal alone is enough to tell the tale. Regardless, its still a great looking car that should provide you with a lot of enjoyment!


Deron

[real550A]

John VanDam, the guy that transported the car for me, said he offloaded it at the Amelia Island show to get at two other cars, and the "A" guys down there asked to look inside. They claimed the stitching on the door panels was clearly original, as were the seat, package tray and headliner. I'm pretty sure those haven't been changed. I'll pull the seat cushion out tomorrow.

[columbiA]

One nice thing about buying a 40 to 60 year old resto,is that only the good original cars were being restored.I bought a 31 S/W sedan last summer that was restored in 72.The paint isnt perfect,but I wont freak-out if it gets a scratch on it.Nowadays cars are being restored that I wouldnt have even looked at 50 years ago.On my S/W,the tires on it had a71 date on them,had nylon cords & were weather checked.

[Richard Wilson]

Originally Posted by columbiA

One nice thing about buying a 40 to 60 year old resto,is that only the good original cars were being restored.I bought a 31 S/W sedan last summer that was restored in 72.The paint isnt perfect,but I wont freak-out if it gets a scratch on it.Nowadays cars are being restored that I wouldnt have even looked at 50 years ago.On my S/W,the tires on it had a71 date on them,had nylon cords & were weather checked.

Also most of the early 50's-60's resto's used original parts because good original parts were still available at affordable prices, in most cases, and there were not near as many 1-800 offshore reproduction parts available.

[Bob-A]

My '31 deluxe roadster was repainted, remotored and new interior/top put on back in the early '50s. I was told before I bought it. It now looks like an old original (and ragged), but road worthy unrestored car. And thats the way I'm going to leave it except for restoring mechanical (for safety/reliablity) issues.

Bob-A

[Kevin in NJ]

I am not one to beat around the bush and please do not take this as saying you have a bad car.

It is a very nice car, it is just not an original untouched car.

This is clearly an older restoration. I would go on step further and say it was a body off restoration. The under body was was fully painted too.

I would put it at late 60's to early 70's. The paint is is failing like off in chips, I have seen a lot of original cars and the Ford paint does NOT fail like this. It was always well bonded. Usually it kind of wore off into areas and the original bonderized surface does not rust like you see in the pictures. It rusts, but go take a look at cars that are verified originals and you will see what I mean.

This car most likely had a rumble seat conversion. It has a repro curved inner panel and is missing the spare tire banana reinforcement that all original parts would have had. Plus you can see the well painted panel has chips falling off.

See the link to my website here: Rumble lids to see what I am talking about.

This car just appears to be an old restoration on what was probably a very nice car.

From the look at the rear springs you need to take them apart. Nice the orange rust seeping out indicating they have no lubrication. You can also see some leaking oil leaking from the driveshaft housing. Do I also see washers on the axle to center section bolts? If so they should not be there. I would be concerned what was done in the rear if they used washers since there was a reason Ford did not use washers. That indicates someone doing the work did not understand what they were working on and may have missed other important points. Also the bolts holding the driveshaft tube to the rear do not look right.

What about the window glass, what markings does it have. That will give a clue when the work was done. Keep in mind that NO windshield glass has survived and is useable. They all went cloudy by the late 30's and had to be replaced. People were getting away from the plate glass on the side windows and so glass was given date coded bugs.

For the interior, well the coupes have been a well understood car. Good quality interiors have been made for years. This car appears to have be a fairly good restoration and I would think the person spent the money for a better quality interior. From the pictures that interior looks very well done.

Now for my next controversial questions.

How does the car run and drive?

The original untouched cars are very smooth running. If the springs and shocks are working right the car should be comfortable to run at 60-65 MPH. Stepping on the brakes and the car feels like it wants to stop.

You should be be to idle down the engine and it should be fairly quiet. Many today have loose and noisy valve trains that give the engine a some extra noise. The dominate sound of a well done car is the rushing sound of the air sucking in the carb.

I hope I have not offended anyone.
The facts are pretty obvious to me that this was well done older restoration. I believe when you dig in behind panels you will find signs that this was a nice body to start with (probably rust free).
It is not a bad car, just not an original untouched car.
The path forward would be to learn about the A more and evaluate the true extents of the mechanical restoration. Odds are good that not everything is mechanically up to snuff (like the rear spring and possibly the rear axle). Then fix the stuff in little projects and have fun in the mean time.

[Big John]

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that is a foot rest for the gas pedal.....

[Spider]

I hate to rain on the party but looking at the photos the paint doesn't look original to me. In my experience original paint does not crack as it looks to have on the lower quarter panel and left rear fender. That is usually a sign of an older repaint where there is to much product on the job. Could it possibly have been repainted in the 60's or 70's ?

[JimK1930A]

Whats that pedal next to the foot feed. two speed rear end?
It is a foot rest next to the gas pedal, I use it when I drive down a long open road with my hand held throttle on the steering column.