The Ford Barn

jcheshire31 · 11-09-2011, 03:07 PM

Anybody else notice the 5 bearing camshaft? I didn't know you coud get away with that. As far as scraping the gaskets off, razor blades are the easiest thing for me to use and they always get all of the gasket off. The rods are also supposed to be torqued to a certain spec but I completely forgot how much. Another person will probably chime in and let you know how much they're supposed to be at. I would check them just to be safe, and when you do check them, when you torque it to that certain amount an old timer in my club told me not to over torque or under the bolts to get the cotter keys to line up. If they don't line up, take them back off and take some sand paper and wear the bottom off the bolts little by little until they line up right at that torque.

Model A Fan · 11-09-2011, 03:33 PM

Also, what should I do about my distributor? Should I rebuild it or pay for a rebuilt one? How should I pop the shaft out to get the new spring in there? I just watched a video on youtube showing you can remove the head with the distributor in it still...I was thinking you had to remove the distributor first, then remove the head...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fv3_Yfm0dM

Tom Wesenberg · 11-09-2011, 04:38 PM

I wouldn't remove the head unless you have a good reason to.

Is there someone nearby that can come over and show you how to check clearance on the rods? That is the space between the crank throw and the inside diameter of the big end of the connecting rod babbit.

I would use the stock rope seal.

Model A Fan · 11-09-2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I wouldn't remove the head unless you have a good reason to.

Is there someone nearby that can come over and show you how to check clearance on the rods? That is the space between the crank throw and the inside diameter of the big end of the connecting rod babbit.

I would use the stock rope seal.

The only reason I would remove the head is to replace the head gasket as I recently purchased a new gasket set. I was just going to "freshen" them up, as the gaskets are pretty crusty. I figured it would be better than having old gaskets with unknown seals.

As for someone in the area, I know one person. I don't know too many people who are into the engine part though, so I will have to ask him and find out.

Rope seal-got it. Other than that, my checklist looks OK?

Thanks again!

1930artdeco · 11-09-2011, 06:04 PM

Just my 2 cents worth here....But I noticed the bottom of the cylinders looked either rusty or scored. The engine will run in this condition but not as well as one with honed walls. You may want to pop the pistons when you pull the head and do the rings.

Mike

Model A Fan · 11-10-2011, 03:42 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

Just my 2 cents worth here....But I noticed the bottom of the cylinders looked either rusty or scored. The engine will run in this condition but not as well as one with honed walls. You may want to pop the pistons when you pull the head and do the rings.

Mike

So, pop the pistons out and replace the rings on them? I'm not sure how far or how comfortable I would be taking this on my own when doing something major like that.

James Rogers · 11-10-2011, 07:15 AM

Next order you place should include a copy of Les Andrews book Model A Mechanics Handbook. It will answer many questions you may have.

Model A Fan · 11-10-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rogers

Next order you place should include a copy of Les Andrews book Model A Mechanics Handbook. It will answer many questions you may have.

I have that book. It did not show nor explain how to remove the distributor if it is stuck. The book assumes your engine is in perfect shape...

As far as my questions go, I just want to replace the head gasket, get the distributor out, paint it and get it back together. The rings don't bother me, and the cotter pins don't bother me. Nor does the gapping. It ran before I got it, that's all I intend for it to do now.

The Les Andrews book is nice, but it is hard to use sometimes.

James Rogers · 11-10-2011, 01:01 PM

I think you are on the right track but I would put the cotters in. Any kind of cotters would be better than what you have. Go to the parts store and pick up a few and put them in. If the holes don't line up just tighten the nut to the next slot or if it is only half or less back to the one before it. I have used 2 screwdrivers to pry the dist up out of the head but you must take extreme care to pry the same on both sides at once. Your only other alternatives are to remove the head and get it out or get one of the pullers that is made for this purpose or just keep worrying it till it gives up by wiggling and trying to turn it. When you get the dist out, remove the spring in the valve chamber and get the dist drive out and clean all the rust up. You might want to rebuild this drive since it can make your timing not stay consistent.

Keep up the good work and take your time.

Gumpy · 11-10-2011, 01:55 PM

nice looking frame good luck w/your project!

jcheshire31 · 11-10-2011, 02:01 PM

When me and my dad finally got our chassis last August we got it running (it didn't run very good, but the motor hadn't run in 30 years) and then took it out to examine it. We tried getting the distributor out while it was sitting on the engine stand. We had to of worked at it for nearly almost 2 straight hours, spraying everything we could find on it in the process. We even took a larger monkey wrench to it. (Part of the lower body was already cracked when we got it.) Finally we just decided to turn it over and take the pan off. Not even 5 seconds after we turned it upside down, the distributor fell out in the floor with no help what so ever. Don't ask me how, but it did. I'm not saying that this will work for you, but I would try to move on right now and come back to it later.

Fred K-OR · 11-10-2011, 04:13 PM

I think the advise to take your time on the distributor is good advise. Keep putting Kroil in the hole like mentioned above and keep trying to get it out. The screw driver idea sounds good also.

Before you put your manifolds back on, be sure you clean the holes. They look like they may have some rust and may leak if you don't.

Keep at it. Looks like things are getting there.

Model A Fan · 11-10-2011, 08:24 PM

So, I got the distributor loose, but I can't get it out of the engine! I can lift up on it and it compresses the spring with the shaft that goes from it down through the valve chamber. What can I do to get it loose? The Les Andrews book does not say anything other than "remove the distributor"...well duh! But how? I got the head loose and all that is keeping me from removing it is the distributor, shaft and spring... >

jcheshire31 · 11-10-2011, 09:57 PM

The head will come off with the distributor in it. It might even be easier to get the distributor out with the head off.

Model A Fan · 11-11-2011, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcheshire31

The head will come off with the distributor in it. It might even be easier to get the distributor out with the head off.

Well, I got the head loose and it can be popped off, but the thing with the distributor is that the shaft that goes down from it through the block won't separate from the distributor. It is still attached to the shaft. I tried pulling and whatnot, but no luck.

Should I keep spraying it with lubricant and just hope it penetrates it?

Tom Wesenberg · 11-11-2011, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Model A Fan

Well, I got the head loose and it can be popped off, but the thing with the distributor is that the shaft that goes down from it through the block won't separate from the distributor. It is still attached to the shaft. I tried pulling and whatnot, but no luck.

Should I keep spraying it with lubricant and just hope it penetrates it?

Yes, keep spraying Kroil on the rusted joints of the shaft, then with the head lifted some jam some wood between the head and block to hold it up a little while you tap the oil pump drive gear back down.

I had to do one just like yours a few years ago. The rust on the shaft joints can form quite a bond.

Model A Fan · 11-11-2011, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Yes, keep spraying Kroil on the rusted joints of the shaft, then with the head lifted some jam some wood between the head and block to hold it up a little while you tap the oil pump drive gear back down.

I had to do one just like yours a few years ago. The rust on the shaft joints can form quite a bond.

I can't get the distributor "head/body" (the metal housing that everything is attached to) to come off to tap the shaft back down. As far as the joints, if I tap them enough, will they separate? I didn't want to spray into the valve chamber, but I guess what I spray in there won't hurt it really. Can I clip the spring apart with wire cutters and gain easier access to the shaft and pop it apart?

I can't lift the head far enough to get any wood between block and head. It is maybe two gasket thicknesses wide (the gap between the block and head).

What is the best method to clean the grime out of the valve chamber?

Tom Wesenberg · 11-11-2011, 08:34 AM

Stick some pipe cleaners in the holes that feed oil to the main bearings, then you can scrape and blow the junk out. I use gas and a brush along with compressed air to clean it out. After it's done then pull the pipe cleaners out of the oil tubes.

If I remember right, it was your engine that had the broken oil pump drive gear retaining spring, so I'd just pull it out of there by grabbing the end with a vice grip and giving it a good yank. Wear leather gloves.

JBR · 11-11-2011, 09:19 AM

You can get wooden wedges used for shimming windows & doors at your local lumber yard/big box store for a couple of bucks. They start out at about 1/8 of an inch and taper to about 1/2 thick over 6 inches or so.

I would be careful hitting the shaft, if you miss you could damage the block. Use the kroil and be patient. Maybe a little heat after you clean out the valve chamber, a heat gun would be better than a torch.

If you are going to replace the shafts ( I would) how about a vice grip on both shafts either side of the joint and rock them back and forth in opposite directions?

Model A Fan · 11-13-2011, 05:38 AM

Can I take an angle grinder to the shafts and cut them out? I can't find Kroil at the store I work at. Is it a specialty item? I figure I will just buy a rebuild distributor from Snyder's or something. Any ideas? It is only about $10 more to buy one rebuilt already than buying the rebuild kit...

11-09-2011, 03:07 PM	#61
jcheshire31 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 109	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far Anybody else notice the 5 bearing camshaft? I didn't know you coud get away with that. As far as scraping the gaskets off, razor blades are the easiest thing for me to use and they always get all of the gasket off. The rods are also supposed to be torqued to a certain spec but I completely forgot how much. Another person will probably chime in and let you know how much they're supposed to be at. I would check them just to be safe, and when you do check them, when you torque it to that certain amount an old timer in my club told me not to over torque or under the bolts to get the cotter keys to line up. If they don't line up, take them back off and take some sand paper and wear the bottom off the bolts little by little until they line up right at that torque.

11-09-2011, 03:33 PM	#62
Model A Fan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bellingham, Washington Posts: 362	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far Also, what should I do about my distributor? Should I rebuild it or pay for a rebuilt one? How should I pop the shaft out to get the new spring in there? I just watched a video on youtube showing you can remove the head with the distributor in it still...I was thinking you had to remove the distributor first, then remove the head... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fv3_Yfm0dM

11-09-2011, 04:38 PM	#63
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far I wouldn't remove the head unless you have a good reason to. Is there someone nearby that can come over and show you how to check clearance on the rods? That is the space between the crank throw and the inside diameter of the big end of the connecting rod babbit. I would use the stock rope seal.

11-09-2011, 06:04 PM	#65
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,550	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far Just my 2 cents worth here....But I noticed the bottom of the cylinders looked either rusty or scored. The engine will run in this condition but not as well as one with honed walls. You may want to pop the pistons when you pull the head and do the rings. Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

11-10-2011, 07:15 AM	#67
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far Next order you place should include a copy of Les Andrews book Model A Mechanics Handbook. It will answer many questions you may have.

11-10-2011, 01:01 PM	#69
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far I think you are on the right track but I would put the cotters in. Any kind of cotters would be better than what you have. Go to the parts store and pick up a few and put them in. If the holes don't line up just tighten the nut to the next slot or if it is only half or less back to the one before it. I have used 2 screwdrivers to pry the dist up out of the head but you must take extreme care to pry the same on both sides at once. Your only other alternatives are to remove the head and get it out or get one of the pullers that is made for this purpose or just keep worrying it till it gives up by wiggling and trying to turn it. When you get the dist out, remove the spring in the valve chamber and get the dist drive out and clean all the rust up. You might want to rebuild this drive since it can make your timing not stay consistent. Keep up the good work and take your time.

11-10-2011, 01:55 PM	#70
Gumpy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sf bay area Posts: 1,464	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far *nice looking frame good luck w/your project!* __________________ "I believe God is managing affairs and that He doesn't need any advice from me. With God in Charge, I believe everything will work out for the best in the end. So what is there to worry about". Quote by Henry Ford

11-10-2011, 02:01 PM	#71
jcheshire31 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 109	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far When me and my dad finally got our chassis last August we got it running (it didn't run very good, but the motor hadn't run in 30 years) and then took it out to examine it. We tried getting the distributor out while it was sitting on the engine stand. We had to of worked at it for nearly almost 2 straight hours, spraying everything we could find on it in the process. We even took a larger monkey wrench to it. (Part of the lower body was already cracked when we got it.) Finally we just decided to turn it over and take the pan off. Not even 5 seconds after we turned it upside down, the distributor fell out in the floor with no help what so ever. Don't ask me how, but it did. I'm not saying that this will work for you, but I would try to move on right now and come back to it later.

11-10-2011, 04:13 PM	#72
Fred K-OR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stayton, Oregon Posts: 3,806	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far I think the advise to take your time on the distributor is good advise. Keep putting Kroil in the hole like mentioned above and keep trying to get it out. The screw driver idea sounds good also. Before you put your manifolds back on, be sure you clean the holes. They look like they may have some rust and may leak if you don't. Keep at it. Looks like things are getting there. __________________ Fred Kroon 1929 Std Coupe 1929 Huckster

11-10-2011, 08:24 PM	#73
Model A Fan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bellingham, Washington Posts: 362	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far So, I got the distributor loose, but I can't get it out of the engine! I can lift up on it and it compresses the spring with the shaft that goes from it down through the valve chamber. What can I do to get it loose? The Les Andrews book does not say anything other than "remove the distributor"...well duh! But how? I got the head loose and all that is keeping me from removing it is the distributor, shaft and spring... >

11-10-2011, 09:57 PM	#74
jcheshire31 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 109	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far The head will come off with the distributor in it. It might even be easier to get the distributor out with the head off.

11-11-2011, 08:34 AM	#78
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far Stick some pipe cleaners in the holes that feed oil to the main bearings, then you can scrape and blow the junk out. I use gas and a brush along with compressed air to clean it out. After it's done then pull the pipe cleaners out of the oil tubes. If I remember right, it was your engine that had the broken oil pump drive gear retaining spring, so I'd just pull it out of there by grabbing the end with a vice grip and giving it a good yank. Wear leather gloves.

11-11-2011, 09:19 AM	#79
JBR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 346	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far You can get wooden wedges used for shimming windows & doors at your local lumber yard/big box store for a couple of bucks. They start out at about 1/8 of an inch and taper to about 1/2 thick over 6 inches or so. I would be careful hitting the shaft, if you miss you could damage the block. Use the kroil and be patient. Maybe a little heat after you clean out the valve chamber, a heat gun would be better than a torch. If you are going to replace the shafts ( I would) how about a vice grip on both shafts either side of the joint and rock them back and forth in opposite directions?

11-13-2011, 05:38 AM	#80
Model A Fan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bellingham, Washington Posts: 362	Re: My Latest Haul and Collection thus Far Can I take an angle grinder to the shafts and cut them out? I can't find Kroil at the store I work at. Is it a specialty item? I figure I will just buy a rebuild distributor from Snyder's or something. Any ideas? It is only about $10 more to buy one rebuilt already than buying the rebuild kit...