The Ford Barn

Synchro909 · 10-08-2018, 11:06 PM

We've just returned from our National Model A rally. Over 1500 miles and the car didn't miss a beat. Averaging about 80 kph (50 mph) on the open road, it returned 23 mpg (that's about 18.5 to the US gallon, I think) Not disappointed about that but now that I'm home, I have a job to do on it.
I'm guessing that the guy who restored the P/U in Manitoba (Canada) didn't know what he was doing when he chased the threads in the diff centre and that left them too loose to seal. Oil leaks around the larger end of the axle housings - so much so that I had to top it up twice during this trip. If there is an easy and a hard way to do a job, I prefer the easy one so this is what I propose doing. I'd like feedback if my plans are unworkable so as to save me turning an easy way into something else.

I devised this while driving and I think I have a way of doing this repair without the diff centre coming out of its bearings wich would make reassembly a PITA.

Drian the Diff.
Jack up the rear of the car and put jack stands under the chassis
Dissconnect the brake rods
Using a spring spreader, undo the shackles and leave the spring in the U bolts
Lower axle assembly and put blocks under the centre and one end
Remove the hub from the other end, undo the bolts around the axle housing and slide the axle housing outwards about an inch
Clean/repair and seal at the gaskets and around the threads. I thought I'd use Permatex #3 for that.
Refit axle housing and hub
Repeat on the other side.
Reassemble (including put oil back in it!!)

By doing one side at a time and leaving the hub on the other side, I think the diff centre and axles will stay put while the housing is moved out. I will only need enough room to get a finger in there with a rag over it soaked in petrol to clean it before sealing it so 1" should be plenty.

Dodge · 10-08-2018, 11:35 PM

Are the bolts tight and not sealing or are the bolts not tightening up? Is it just leaking around the bolts? or are the housing bells leaking.
It its just the bolts not sealing but being tight you can take string and goob it up with
avation #2 or #3 liquid wind the string around the bolt and tighten them up again. If the bells are leaking, bigger problem as the gaskets are shims as well as being gaskets.
If you separate the bells you might or probably will destroy the gaskets.
You may have to pull the rear end and do it right.
Maybe the guru of rear ends, Tom Endy will chime in here.

Railcarmover · 10-08-2018, 11:40 PM

Since the housing gaskets set the carrier bearing preload that's a bad idea.Pull the assembly out of the car,set it up so you can work on it,spread spring and pull radius rods and go through the axle,search Tom Endy rear axle rebuild.

Benson · 10-08-2018, 11:42 PM

...

J Franklin · 10-08-2018, 11:50 PM

Before tearing it down drain and flush the banjo housing. Then just remove the bolts 1 at a time, clean them and use some blue locktite (my favorite) or gasket shellac. You might not have to do anything further.

denniskliesen · 10-09-2018, 12:02 AM

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I'm with J Franklin on what he suggested. 1 bolt at a time. Take the bottom bolts out to let most of the oil drain from there plus the drain plug. Jack one side up to tilt the center to get more oil out. You will need to get the threads in the housing as clean and dry as possible.

Tom Endy · 10-09-2018, 12:05 AM

I would re-torque all 20 banjo bolts to 35 ft. lbs. You will probably find that the two forward bolts on each side are loose. For some reason these four bolts tend to come loose. I believe there is some squirming of the rear axle housing that goes on.

If this does not stop the leaking, drain the banjo and remove each bolt one at a time and coat the threads with Indian Head seal and re-insert and re-torque.

Tom Endy

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-09-2018, 12:39 AM

Permatex # 2 works well, to seal the bolt threads, one at a time. Permatex # 2 will stick to bolt threads, even when they're slightly oily!!!---TRUST me on this one!!!
Bill Williamson

updraught · 10-09-2018, 01:21 AM

I've got a diff here that I "rebuilt" when I didn't know what I was doing.

Leaks like a sieve too.

Synchro909 · 10-09-2018, 01:33 AM

Thanks for the replies so far guys. I am aware that the gaskets set the peload on the carrier bearings and if one os so munched up that I have to replace it, I'd do so with one of the same thickness. I've tried taking the bolts out one at a time and sealing them but not with a piece of string (or cotton?). I am not aware of Indian Head sealer - never seen it here. This edit is because I have just googled Indian Head thread sealer. I found a blister pack for $US4.99 with delivery of $65.74. Welcome to our world!!
Looks like I will try to find some Permatex #2, drain the diff, clean the bolt threads and the female thread in the housing, wrap some cotton on it and reinsert, torque to 35 ftlb and pray.
I also wondered about a soft(ish) flat washer under the head of the bolts and some yellow teflon tape..
I dismissed babana peels!

Lawrie · 10-09-2018, 01:44 AM

Use loctite 515 on the thre ads,if the gasket is RS, take the old one out measure the thickness,get a new one ,cut it so you can slip it ove the axle,saving pulling it all to bits,when you make the cut ,do it in a dovetail so when you assemble it it will not leak,and put some 515 on the dovetail ,put the dovetail join at the top.
We are having a great trip home,tonight at Warren,
Car and Carol both going great.

Synchro909 · 10-09-2018, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrie

Use loctite 515 on the thre ads,if the gasket is RS, take the old one out measure the thickness,get a new one ,cut it so you can slip it ove the axle,saving pulling it all to bits,when you make the cut ,do it in a dovetail so when you assemble it it will not leak,and put some 515 on the dovetail ,put the dovetail join at the top.
We are having a great trip home,tonight at Warren,
Car and Carol both going great.

Lawrie, Good to hear. Is that a bush camp? Too wet for that here or am I just getting soft?
Does loctite 515 work on oily threads?

Railcarmover · 10-09-2018, 08:11 AM

Modern sealants work better on antique cars than period sealants..permatex #2? indian head shellac? really?why not tamp a little oakum in there?

When you disturb a fixed housing adjustment you are basically resetting the preload. When you assume a leaking housing gasket is set at proper preload you make your first mistake,you double down by smearing sealant without regard to its loaded thickness altering the setting.Don't lowball your model A,do it right.

updraught · 10-09-2018, 08:13 AM

You can get Indian Head on ebay.com.au from Lithuania for about $2.30 postage.

As it is a flamable liquid you might end up in the "midnight express" jail if you try to buy it.
I'm sure someone on Fordbarn could send you a cake with a file in it, if that helps.

"Modern sealants work better on antique cars than period sealants..permatex #2? indian head shellac? really?why not tamp a little oakum in there"

From what I remenmber, when Mitch (a modern day mechanic) was on this forum, he used Indian Head and didn't have any leaks.

Corley · 10-09-2018, 08:49 AM

Come on, it's Australia, them's all outlaws down there, and they can bake their own cakes with files right there in the hoos-cow.

Seriously, Elvira has a minor version of this problem, and I did as Tom Endy suggests, with good success. Then, 6 months later, a few drips appeared again. Thourough cleaning and careful watching indicates leaking bolts again, not the gaskets. (I think!). Bolts are still tight, but seeping. (Best solution suggested by friends so far, run it without oil, when it burns up, replace it with one that doesn't leak. But, I'm going to not do that. I also rejected welding it all together. My friends are so helpful!)

Might go for new bolts, and lots of thread hole cleaning, locktite on the threads since it should stay put, plus more string/Teflon tape to fill the gaps around the bell..

I don't like leaks, even small ones that only drip now and then.

Railcarmover · 10-09-2018, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by updraught

You can get Indian Head on ebay.com.au from Lithuania for about $2.30 postage.

As it is a flamable liquid you might end up in the "midnight express" jail if you try to buy it.
I'm sure someone on Fordbarn could send you a cake with a file in it, if that helps.

"Modern sealants work better on antique cars than period sealants..permatex #2? indian head shellac? really?why not tamp a little oakum in there"

From what I remenmber, when Mitch (a modern day mechanic) was on this forum, he used Indian Head and didn't have any leaks.

Cooking with dung for heat works too.Glad old Mitch has success with indian head, good for him.. suggesting old school solutions might be fashionable,modern sealants work better..and yes,I'm one of those 'modern day mechanics' too..

katy · 10-09-2018, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Permatex # 2 works well, to seal the bolt threads, one at a time. Permatex # 2 will stick to bolt threads, even when they're slightly oily!!!---TRUST me on this one!!!
Bill Williamson

Ditto

We used it on GM 6-71 diesels that leaked oil everywhere, worked great.

Try the easy ways first, if they don't work then go to the more complicated way.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-09-2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katy

Ditto

We used it on GM 6-71 diesels that leaked oil everywhere, worked great.

Try the easy ways first, if they don't work then go to the more complicated way.

Katy,
Thanks for the SIMPLE approach!
For the Guy that rips the rear end out & tears it apart, "someone" will say, "Might as well overhaul the trans, replace the clutch & don't forget the pilot bearing & dial in the bellhousing---SO where does it END????----!7 MONTHS later, the car's BACK on the ROAD AGAIN---NLOL
Bill Simple

30 Closed Cab PU · 10-09-2018, 11:27 AM

From a newer member and A hobbyist.

I understand both sides of this. The; if it isn't broke don't fix it, and the as long as you are there, freshen worn parts. I read all the multiple opinions, and hopefully learn and retain the info.

IMO it depends on the owner and the condition of the car.

If the owner is not a mechanic, and car condition is unknown, perhaps best to inspect and freshen parts if things are disassembled for something else. Another reason is reliability and not constantly wondering what's next when condition is unknown.

For the more experienced members with cars in great shape, known history of the car, cars well maintained, and are mechanics - I totally agree with just fix what is needed for the current issue.

denniskliesen · 10-09-2018, 02:27 PM

I prefer Permatex High Tack gasket sealant over #2. You can buy it in spray or brush on. I've used it on my differential housings, transmission, and over 6k miles no leaks. I also used Ultra Black under the head of the bolt and medium strength on the threads.

Synchro909 · 10-09-2018, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denniskliesen

I prefer Permatex High Tack gasket sealant over #2. You can buy it in spray or brush on. I've used it on my differential housings, transmission, and over 6k miles no leaks. I also used Ultra Black under the head of the bolt and medium strength on the threads.

What is Ultra Black???? Probably like that Indian Head stuff at $70 a tube by the time it gets here. Does Permatex Higfh Tack work on oily threads or must the surfaces be squeaky clean?
It's nearly 9am here and I'm about to leave to check out what is available while bearing in mind what I has been suggested here.

Corley · 10-09-2018, 06:45 PM

That Ultra Black rtv is really good stuff on super clean surfaces, but it won't adheare to oily surfaces. You must get all the oil out of the bolt holes if sealing the bolts is your goal, and that is near impossible on an A diff. I'm just sayin'...

J Franklin · 10-09-2018, 07:53 PM

I have purchased flat washers with rubber on one side to use for general sealing. Use these or find a thread sealant sold locally. Ask your local mechanics what it is they would use I'm sure you can find similar products without having to import it.

Synchro909 · 10-09-2018, 09:39 PM

Well, I've done the rounds of suppliers and not come up with anything. Every product I looked at, including Loctite 515 and Prmatex #2 (which is just another silicone) says the parts should be clean and dry so here's what I now thought I'd do.
After draining the oil and flushing, I can easily clean the bolts one at a time as I remove them. It is the female thread that causes the problem and for that, I thought I could use some carburettor cleaner squirted in through the hole and let it drain out the bottom. I could maybe also make up something like an oversized pipe cleaner to help. I don't really want to do this again so maybe I use some string or yellow teflon tape as well as Loctite 243 to seal things up. I'd also put the aluminium washers I made under the bolt heads. That is 3 different methods - surely that will shut it up!

Terry Burtz, Calif · 10-09-2018, 10:25 PM

Permatex #2 is not just another silicone.

There is no silicone in Permatex #2.

Permatex #2 is a sealant that is alcohol based.

Silicone based sealants were developed during the "Space Race".

Permatex #2 was developed during WW2 to seal aircraft engine interfaces where precision mating surfaces needed to be sealed, and the variability of a squished paper gasket was unacceptable.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 10-09-2018, 10:49 PM

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I haven’t read where you checked if the bolts will torque. That would be step # 1

Synchro909 · 10-10-2018, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif

Permatex #2 is not just another silicone.

There is no silicone in Permatex #2.

Permatex #2 is a sealant that is alcohol based.

Silicone based sealants were developed during the "Space Race".

Permatex #2 was developed during WW2 to seal aircraft engine interfaces where precision mating surfaces needed to be sealed, and the variability of a squished paper gasket was unacceptable.

That makes more sense than what I saw. The #2 I saw was definately silicone. Maybe things arew marketed differently here. I haven't seen what you call #2, only #3

Synchro909 · 10-10-2018, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

I haven’t read where you checked if the bolts will torque. That would be step # 1

That was the first thing I did - 35 ftlb. Sorry I didn't mention it but I agree, first things first

Tom Wesenberg · 10-10-2018, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synchro909

That makes more sense than what I saw. The #2 I saw was definately silicone. Maybe things arew marketed differently here. I haven't seen what you call #2, only #3

It comes in a small tube, like toothpaste, and comes out like brown tar. It's a good sealer. There is also Pematex #1, which is the hardening type.

updraught · 10-10-2018, 01:36 AM

https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...-no-2-sealant/

The middle one here looks the same as the one at Supercheap Auto. Should smell like alcohol ...

Interesting article, looks like Hylomar is a good all rounder. Been sold here around the 60's or so. Rolls Royce product.

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2013/0...omment-page-1/

Mike V. Florida · 10-10-2018, 01:40 AM

The original bolts are not the same dia as the reproductions. This is From Tom Endy's procedure,

"There are ten banjo bolts on each side of the banjo (20 total). These are special bolts; examine them to be sure they are original. They should have a space between the head of the bolt and the threads. This is to prevent oil from spiraling up the threads and causing an oil leak. The head of the bolt will also appear to be thicker than a normal bolt. It is best to use the original bolts and avoid the reproductions. Do not use lock washers with these bolts, as they will leak oil. "

katy · 10-10-2018, 09:01 AM

As Terry Burtz said: "Permatex #2 is not just another silicone. There is no silicone in Permatex #2."

https://www.permatex.com/wp-content/.../tds/80011.pdf

Another trick you might try is copper washers under the bolt heads.

Corley · 10-10-2018, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif

Permatex #2 is not just another silicone.

There is no silicone in Permatex #2.

Permatex #2 is a sealant that is alcohol based.

Silicone based sealants were developed during the "Space Race".

Permatex #2 was developed during WW2 to seal aircraft engine interfaces where precision mating surfaces needed to be sealed, and the variability of a squished paper gasket was unacceptable.

Don't think anyone said that Permatex #2 contains silicone, but "Ultra Black" sure does. Ultra black is a modern day sealer, #2 is old school. Both have their place.

Something interesting that lots of guys don't realize, is that silicone sealants and RTV sealants are a very different composition, and you should not use plain silicon sealer around oily stuff, it won't hold up. RTV is recommended for automotive uses, and will withstand that environment.

Synchro909 · 10-10-2018, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by updraught

https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...-no-2-sealant/

The middle one here looks the same as the one at Supercheap Auto. Should smell like alcohol ...

Interesting article, looks like Hylomar is a good all rounder. Been sold here around the 60's or so. Rolls Royce product.

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2013/0...omment-page-1/

Thanks for the info. That looks nothing like what I saw at Burson's labelled as Permatex #2 but I note that the instructions say that the surfaces should be thoroughly clean before assembly.

updraught · 10-10-2018, 07:20 PM

Do you read the instructions on a beer can?

Synchro909 · 10-10-2018, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by updraught

Do you read the instructions on a beer can?

Why didn't I think of that???? Seal it with beer. Genious!

Corley · 10-10-2018, 07:43 PM

How about some Gorilla glue, it is supposed to swell up and fill in all the gaps, but I doubt it would set in an enclosed space... Maybe some bacon rind, they made a lot of use of that back in the day...

Mikeinnj · 10-10-2018, 09:16 PM

There are ten banjo bolts on each side of the banjo (20 total). These are special bolts; examine them to be sure they are original. They should have a space between the head of the bolt and the threads. This is to prevent oil from spiraling up the threads and causing an oil leak. The head of the bolt will also appear to be thicker than a normal bolt....From Tom Endy's informative article
found here.....http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...vised-2014.pdf Also, do not chase the female threads on the banjo as it will affect their ability to seal oil.

Synchro909 · 10-10-2018, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeinnj

There are ten banjo bolts on each side of the banjo (20 total). These are special bolts; examine them to be sure they are original. They should have a space between the head of the bolt and the threads. This is to prevent oil from spiraling up the threads and causing an oil leak. The head of the bolt will also appear to be thicker than a normal bolt....From Tom Endy's informative article
found here.....http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...vised-2014.pdf Also, do not chase the female threads on the banjo as it will affect their ability to seal oil.

The bolts fit your description but I'm by no means certain they are original. It's a slow process but I'm removing them one by one, cleaning out the female threads with Carby cleaner, cleaning the bolt and refitting with yeloow teflon tape and a washer under the head. I tried some time ago to seal them in a half hearted way and the ones where I had used the tape look pretty good. I'm hopeful that after cleaning the threads, they will seal. Now, I'm hoping that the leaks are not through the gasket. That could be if the gasket is damaged or the axle housing is distorted. I'll do this easy thing first, then see what I have. No point fixing the gaskets if they are not the problem.
There also seems to be oil excaping around the flange at the pinion. This guy was a lousy mechanic!!

Synchro909 · 10-12-2018, 04:17 PM

Often, we never hear how things turned out for the originator of a thread so I thought I'd report back.
It's been 36 hours now since I removed the bolts on at a time, cleaned the female threads and the bolts, put a washer on the bolt and silicone under it and Permatex #3 on the threads. Torqued them up to 35 ftlb and there are no leaks. I haven't driven it yet but so far, I'm a happy chappy.
It was time consuming and fiddley and I'm pleased it is so easy to get at the diff under a P/U. Time well spent!

10-08-2018, 11:42 PM	#4
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,592	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts ... Last edited by Benson; 10-09-2018 at 07:48 AM.

10-08-2018, 11:50 PM	#5
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,959	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Before tearing it down drain and flush the banjo housing. Then just remove the bolts 1 at a time, clean them and use some blue locktite (my favorite) or gasket shellac. You might not have to do anything further.

10-09-2018, 12:02 AM	#6
denniskliesen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: SoCal Posts: 877	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I'm with J Franklin on what he suggested. 1 bolt at a time. Take the bottom bolts out to let most of the oil drain from there plus the drain plug. Jack one side up to tilt the center to get more oil out. You will need to get the threads in the housing as clean and dry as possible.

10-09-2018, 12:05 AM	#7
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,130	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts I would re-torque all 20 banjo bolts to 35 ft. lbs. You will probably find that the two forward bolts on each side are loose. For some reason these four bolts tend to come loose. I believe there is some squirming of the rear axle housing that goes on. If this does not stop the leaking, drain the banjo and remove each bolt one at a time and coat the threads with Indian Head seal and re-insert and re-torque. Tom Endy

10-09-2018, 12:39 AM	#8
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Permatex # 2 works well, to seal the bolt threads, one at a time. Permatex # 2 will stick to bolt threads, even when they're slightly oily!!!---TRUST me on this one!!! Bill Williamson __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

10-08-2018, 11:06 PM	#1
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,493	Diff leaking around the bolts We've just returned from our National Model A rally. Over 1500 miles and the car didn't miss a beat. Averaging about 80 kph (50 mph) on the open road, it returned 23 mpg (that's about 18.5 to the US gallon, I think) Not disappointed about that but now that I'm home, I have a job to do on it. I'm guessing that the guy who restored the P/U in Manitoba (Canada) didn't know what he was doing when he chased the threads in the diff centre and that left them too loose to seal. Oil leaks around the larger end of the axle housings - so much so that I had to top it up twice during this trip. If there is an easy and a hard way to do a job, I prefer the easy one so this is what I propose doing. I'd like feedback if my plans are unworkable so as to save me turning an easy way into something else. I devised this while driving and I think I have a way of doing this repair without the diff centre coming out of its bearings wich would make reassembly a PITA. Drian the Diff. Jack up the rear of the car and put jack stands under the chassis Dissconnect the brake rods Using a spring spreader, undo the shackles and leave the spring in the U bolts Lower axle assembly and put blocks under the centre and one end Remove the hub from the other end, undo the bolts around the axle housing and slide the axle housing outwards about an inch Clean/repair and seal at the gaskets and around the threads. I thought I'd use Permatex #3 for that. Refit axle housing and hub Repeat on the other side. Reassemble (including put oil back in it!!) By doing one side at a time and leaving the hub on the other side, I think the diff centre and axles will stay put while the housing is moved out. I will only need enough room to get a finger in there with a rag over it soaked in petrol to clean it before sealing it so 1" should be plenty. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

10-08-2018, 11:35 PM	#2
Dodge Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Sonoma, CA. Posts: 1,495	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Are the bolts tight and not sealing or are the bolts not tightening up? Is it just leaking around the bolts? or are the housing bells leaking. It its just the bolts not sealing but being tight you can take string and goob it up with avation #2 or #3 liquid wind the string around the bolt and tighten them up again. If the bells are leaking, bigger problem as the gaskets are shims as well as being gaskets. If you separate the bells you might or probably will destroy the gaskets. You may have to pull the rear end and do it right. Maybe the guru of rear ends, Tom Endy will chime in here.

10-08-2018, 11:40 PM	#3
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Since the housing gaskets set the carrier bearing preload that's a bad idea.Pull the assembly out of the car,set it up so you can work on it,spread spring and pull radius rods and go through the axle,search Tom Endy rear axle rebuild.

10-09-2018, 01:21 AM	#9
updraught Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 1,969	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts I've got a diff here that I "rebuilt" when I didn't know what I was doing. Leaks like a sieve too.

10-09-2018, 01:33 AM	#10
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,493	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Thanks for the replies so far guys. I am aware that the gaskets set the peload on the carrier bearings and if one os so munched up that I have to replace it, I'd do so with one of the same thickness. I've tried taking the bolts out one at a time and sealing them but not with a piece of string (or cotton?). I am not aware of Indian Head sealer - never seen it here. This edit is because I have just googled Indian Head thread sealer. I found a blister pack for $US4.99 with delivery of $65.74. Welcome to our world!! Looks like I will try to find some Permatex #2, drain the diff, clean the bolt threads and the female thread in the housing, wrap some cotton on it and reinsert, torque to 35 ftlb and pray. I also wondered about a soft(ish) flat washer under the head of the bolts and some yellow teflon tape.. I dismissed babana peels! __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood. Last edited by Synchro909; 10-09-2018 at 01:43 AM.

10-09-2018, 08:11 AM	#13
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Modern sealants work better on antique cars than period sealants..permatex #2? indian head shellac? really?why not tamp a little oakum in there? When you disturb a fixed housing adjustment you are basically resetting the preload. When you assume a leaking housing gasket is set at proper preload you make your first mistake,you double down by smearing sealant without regard to its loaded thickness altering the setting.Don't lowball your model A,do it right.

10-09-2018, 08:13 AM	#14
updraught Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 1,969	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts You can get Indian Head on ebay.com.au from Lithuania for about $2.30 postage. As it is a flamable liquid you might end up in the "midnight express" jail if you try to buy it. I'm sure someone on Fordbarn could send you a cake with a file in it, if that helps. "Modern sealants work better on antique cars than period sealants..permatex #2? indian head shellac? really?why not tamp a little oakum in there" From what I remenmber, when Mitch (a modern day mechanic) was on this forum, he used Indian Head and didn't have any leaks. Last edited by updraught; 10-09-2018 at 08:50 AM.

10-09-2018, 08:49 AM	#15
Corley Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Battle Ground WA Posts: 293	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Come on, it's Australia, them's all outlaws down there, and they can bake their own cakes with files right there in the hoos-cow. Seriously, Elvira has a minor version of this problem, and I did as Tom Endy suggests, with good success. Then, 6 months later, a few drips appeared again. Thourough cleaning and careful watching indicates leaking bolts again, not the gaskets. (I think!). Bolts are still tight, but seeping. (Best solution suggested by friends so far, run it without oil, when it burns up, replace it with one that doesn't leak. But, I'm going to not do that. I also rejected welding it all together. My friends are so helpful!) Might go for new bolts, and lots of thread hole cleaning, locktite on the threads since it should stay put, plus more string/Teflon tape to fill the gaps around the bell.. I don't like leaks, even small ones that only drip now and then. __________________ Corley ----------------- Subscribed to the KISS principle!

10-09-2018, 11:27 AM	#19
30 Closed Cab PU Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,332	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts From a newer member and A hobbyist. I understand both sides of this. The; if it isn't broke don't fix it, and the as long as you are there, freshen worn parts. I read all the multiple opinions, and hopefully learn and retain the info. IMO it depends on the owner and the condition of the car. If the owner is not a mechanic, and car condition is unknown, perhaps best to inspect and freshen parts if things are disassembled for something else. Another reason is reliability and not constantly wondering what's next when condition is unknown. For the more experienced members with cars in great shape, known history of the car, cars well maintained, and are mechanics - I totally agree with just fix what is needed for the current issue.

10-09-2018, 02:27 PM	#20
denniskliesen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: SoCal Posts: 877	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts I prefer Permatex High Tack gasket sealant over #2. You can buy it in spray or brush on. I've used it on my differential housings, transmission, and over 6k miles no leaks. I also used Ultra Black under the head of the bolt and medium strength on the threads.

10-09-2018, 06:45 PM	#22
Corley Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Battle Ground WA Posts: 293	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts That Ultra Black rtv is really good stuff on super clean surfaces, but it won't adheare to oily surfaces. You must get all the oil out of the bolt holes if sealing the bolts is your goal, and that is near impossible on an A diff. I'm just sayin'... __________________ Corley ----------------- Subscribed to the KISS principle!

10-09-2018, 07:53 PM	#23
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,959	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts I have purchased flat washers with rubber on one side to use for general sealing. Use these or find a thread sealant sold locally. Ask your local mechanics what it is they would use I'm sure you can find similar products without having to import it.

10-09-2018, 09:39 PM	#24
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,493	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Well, I've done the rounds of suppliers and not come up with anything. Every product I looked at, including Loctite 515 and Prmatex #2 (which is just another silicone) says the parts should be clean and dry so here's what I now thought I'd do. After draining the oil and flushing, I can easily clean the bolts one at a time as I remove them. It is the female thread that causes the problem and for that, I thought I could use some carburettor cleaner squirted in through the hole and let it drain out the bottom. I could maybe also make up something like an oversized pipe cleaner to help. I don't really want to do this again so maybe I use some string or yellow teflon tape as well as Loctite 243 to seal things up. I'd also put the aluminium washers I made under the bolt heads. That is 3 different methods - surely that will shut it up! __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

10-09-2018, 10:25 PM	#25
Terry Burtz, Calif Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Campbell,CA, USA Posts: 318	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Permatex #2 is not just another silicone. There is no silicone in Permatex #2. Permatex #2 is a sealant that is alcohol based. Silicone based sealants were developed during the "Space Race". Permatex #2 was developed during WW2 to seal aircraft engine interfaces where precision mating surfaces needed to be sealed, and the variability of a squished paper gasket was unacceptable.

10-09-2018, 10:49 PM	#26
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I haven’t read where you checked if the bolts will torque. That would be step # 1

10-10-2018, 01:36 AM	#30
updraught Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 1,969	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...-no-2-sealant/ The middle one here looks the same as the one at Supercheap Auto. Should smell like alcohol ... Interesting article, looks like Hylomar is a good all rounder. Been sold here around the 60's or so. Rolls Royce product. https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2013/0...omment-page-1/

10-10-2018, 01:40 AM	#31
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts The original bolts are not the same dia as the reproductions. This is From Tom Endy's procedure, "There are ten banjo bolts on each side of the banjo (20 total). These are special bolts; examine them to be sure they are original. They should have a space between the head of the bolt and the threads. This is to prevent oil from spiraling up the threads and causing an oil leak. The head of the bolt will also appear to be thicker than a normal bolt. It is best to use the original bolts and avoid the reproductions. Do not use lock washers with these bolts, as they will leak oil. " __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II Last edited by Mike V. Florida; 10-10-2018 at 01:47 AM.

10-10-2018, 09:01 AM	#32
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,042	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts As Terry Burtz said: "Permatex #2 is not just another silicone. There is no silicone in Permatex #2." https://www.permatex.com/wp-content/.../tds/80011.pdf Another trick you might try is copper washers under the bolt heads. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn! Last edited by katy; 10-11-2018 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Spelling correction

10-10-2018, 07:20 PM	#35
updraught Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 1,969	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Do you read the instructions on a beer can?

10-10-2018, 07:43 PM	#37
Corley Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Battle Ground WA Posts: 293	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts How about some Gorilla glue, it is supposed to swell up and fill in all the gaps, but I doubt it would set in an enclosed space... Maybe some bacon rind, they made a lot of use of that back in the day... __________________ Corley ----------------- Subscribed to the KISS principle!

10-10-2018, 09:16 PM	#38
Mikeinnj Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 1,262	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts There are ten banjo bolts on each side of the banjo (20 total). These are special bolts; examine them to be sure they are original. They should have a space between the head of the bolt and the threads. This is to prevent oil from spiraling up the threads and causing an oil leak. The head of the bolt will also appear to be thicker than a normal bolt....From Tom Endy's informative article found here.....http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...vised-2014.pdf Also, do not chase the female threads on the banjo as it will affect their ability to seal oil.

10-12-2018, 04:17 PM	#40
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,493	Re: Diff leaking around the bolts Often, we never hear how things turned out for the originator of a thread so I thought I'd report back. It's been 36 hours now since I removed the bolts on at a time, cleaned the female threads and the bolts, put a washer on the bolt and silicone under it and Permatex #3 on the threads. Torqued them up to 35 ftlb and there are no leaks. I haven't driven it yet but so far, I'm a happy chappy. It was time consuming and fiddley and I'm pleased it is so easy to get at the diff under a P/U. Time well spent! __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

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