Model B Steam Engine

[Bob Bidonde]

Lesson learned: Do not use the composition head gasket with the integrated red silicone sealer!



Cruising along at 55 MPH, the Model B engine in my 1931 Coupe started running poorly. The spark plugs in Cylinders 1 & 2 were dripping wet with water. A compression check revealed 1/75PSOG, 2/66PISG, 3/72PSIG & 4/73PSIG with a stock Model B head.



My Coupe sat idle for almost 2 years with coolant, and it was on its first run out of hibernation when the problem occurred. Before venturing out, I topped-off the coolant by adding a gallon of water. I attributed the low water level to evaporation. WRONG!


The head gasket is a black composition job with red silicone sealer integral with the gasket. Rust trails indicate the gasket sealer failed at the large coolant hole just outboard of the distributor.



I run my Model A's 50 to 60 MPH. What are the best head gaskets available these days?

[Gary WA]

Copper with spray!felpro- proper torque sequence as per Larry Brumfield ,never a problem!

[Synchro909]

I installed one of those gaskets a while ago according to the instructions - no sealer. It failed in short time and I was told by the local Model A vendor to ignore the instructions and use a sealer. HUH?
I have found the best gaskets to be the ones by the same name “BEST”. Once bitten, twice shy. I won’t use one of those black ones again.

[Ernie Vitucci]

Agree...I have had good luck with the 'BEST' Gaskets. Ernie

[denniskliesen]

Best 573, it's a graphite gasket. Mine is bone dry.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

Lesson learned: Do not use the composition head gasket with the integrated red silicone sealer!

Cruising along at 55 MPH, the Model B engine in my 1931 Coupe started running poorly. The spark plugs in Cylinders 1 & 2 were dripping wet with water. A compression check revealed 1/75PSOG, 2/66PISG, 3/72PSIG & 4/73PSIG with a stock Model B head.

My Coupe sat idle for almost 2 years with coolant, and it was on its first run out of hibernation when the problem occurred. Before venturing out, I topped-off the coolant by adding a gallon of water. I attributed the low water level to evaporation. WRONG!

The head gasket is a black composition job with red silicone sealer integral with the gasket. Rust trails indicate the gasket sealer failed at the large coolant hole just outboard of the distributor.

So EXACTLY what do you feel caused the failure of this gasket on your engine?? They don't just fail without a contributing factor, so what changed??

[Benson]

Mmmm ...

Is the missing gallon of antifreeze in the oil pan?

[Bob Bidonde]

Brent,
I attribute the failed gasket to degradation of the silicone sealer.

Benson,
I do not use antifreeze, and there is no water in the oil.


I have not found a source for Model B copper head gaskets.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

Brent,
I attribute the failed gasket to degradation of the silicone sealer.

Benson,
I do not use antifreeze, and there is no water in the oil.


I have not found a source for Model B copper head gaskets.

1) What caused the silicone to degrade? It usually doesn't fail, at least in modern engines. Was it a bad batch of head gaskets by the manufacturer? Some type of additive in your cooling system? Or an acidic condition?
2) Why not use antifreeze, especially in New York?

[Bob Bidonde]

The silicone failed. See the origin of the rust paths.


As for antifreeze, I use Barr's Stop Leak which is a water soluble oil with stop leak pellets. Barr's also lubricates the water pump.

[Keith True]

What's confusing me is how you got that gasket off in one piece.If installed properly those things have to be shredded and chiseled off.If anything is sprayed on them on installation the silicone will not do it's job.Something kept that sealer from adhering on initial installation. I have two Brumfield heads riding on those gaskets,they've been on there for about 10 years now.Both were retorqued only once,then I kind of forgot and dropped the ball on doing them again.

[ryanheacox]

I agree with Keith. The last composite gasket I used also came off in one piece which isn't what is supposed to happen. I don't remember butchering the installation, both surfaces were prepped well and no sealant was used but for some reason the silicone just didn't bond.


Switched to the "best" graphite gasket, followed the instructions and it doesn't lose a drop... apart from the crack in the block but that's another issue

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I used those BLACK gaskets, with the RED sealing rings, on BOTH my cars. They're BOTH still running STRONG!!!
Bill W.

[gustafson]

There have been many many posts about the gaskets with the silicone failing. As to why, clearly they are made very poorly. How can that not be obvious.
No other gasket has this reputation

[Mike V. Florida]

B. Our gasket for the Model B engine is specifically engineered to be used with an original or stock Model B
head. It should also be used on any Model A engine fitted with either a Snyder’s head or a Model B head.
C. DO NOT USE GASKET SEALER ON THESE GASKETS! Gaskets are self sealing. Use of additional
sealer can attack both special types of silicone sealer on the gasket surface.

[Bob Bidonde]

Keith,


I have been running my Coupe since 1962, and it has had several head gaskets in that time. Moreover, I have overhauled a few engines, and all of the head gaskets have come off in one piece.

My tools of choice to lift the cylinder head in order of use are:
A. WD-40 on top of nuts, and after the nuts are off, lots of WD-40 into the stud holes;
B. 3" wide spackle knife pushed in under the gasket starting at the right front corner, and working it in across the front of the head;
C. Followup across the front of the head by tapping-in a painter's tool which is thicker. Tap it in under the gasket until the head loosens;
D. 36" pry bar & an assortment of screw drivers long enough to span the width of the head, followed by a pair of 1" x 3" wood wedges on edge;
E. Eye bolts in Plug Holes 2 & 3 with a cross bar for a handle and lift the head off;
F. For a stubborn head, put a 2x4 on the timing cover, and make a wood wedge you can hammer-in under the water pump.

[Keith True]

I guess I should clarify.Not all head gaskets,just those composite ones.If everything is as it is supposed to be those things virtually weld themselves to the head and block.for whatever reason,it looks as if yours didn't stick.Made wrong,something on it,could be other reasons I am not aware of.The biggest problem I've seen with those failing has been people applying something to them when installing them.I saw two squirt the section out the front directly under the water neck,over the pump.They had sprayed something on them when they put them on.It acted as a lube and it looks like the clamping pressure squeezed it right out.My friend put one on his nice clean block,set his nice clean and shaved head on it,and left it for a year.Then he put the nuts on,torqued it,and drove off.It failed in less than a year.It came right off with no work,and looked like yours.Those orange rings should be shredded,not intact.They didn't adhere,and they didn't flatten out and spread like they should have.

[Ernie Vitucci]

Years ago, an old grumpy mechanic at the Shell Gas Station that I worked at told me 'Kidd any flat head should be re-torqued once a year'. I do it with my 31 A and my 49 Packard and every couple of years, or so some of the nuts are just a bit loose. Ernie

[Flathead]

You need to be a total Mr. Fussy Pants to have success with this gasket but it can be done.

[redmodelt]

Snyders's has the copper B gasket. Part number B-6051-X