60 miles per hour all day long

[Gold Digger]

I've read where Ford made the claim that a new model A stock from the factory could run 60 mph all day with out damaging the engine. Has anyone ever done this with a stock engine and drivetrain? None I have ever owned would this. I've had some real good Model A's but I would never try that in one. I had a good 49 Chevy once and it give up on me after about 10 minutes at 60 mph. I went back to flat-head v8's.

[Kevin in NJ]

Yes, You can read about people doing exactly that back when the cars were new. Actually there are stories where the car was run closer to 70 for extended periods of time doing oil tests.

When the engine is properly balanced to Ford specs (Think like you are building a race car engine) then it will purr right along at those speeds. My brothers coupe has been run like that since 1970. In 1986 the babbitt was redone because the shop did not pour it right (that shop had a lot of failures). Currently his car lost 5 MPH on the top end when a rod went bad and the one he slipped in was off in weight. He also gained vibration.

Of course, the whole car needs to be returned to factory specs to be able to run comfortably at those speeds. Doing this takes knowledge, skills special tooling and money and it is not easy gaining all those things, well it was not so easy in the pre-internet days of 1970. My brother was 15 years old when he put his car together.

Keep in mind the 50's cars were underpowered. I remember once we drove with a club to DE and going over the bridge we passed the 50's cars with ease. They all asked us to slow down cause we were going to fast (the speed limit).

[RUNNERBUN]

Back in the day did they even have the roads that you can do 60 mph on.

[Pilotdave]

Interesting reply, Kevin. Which begs this question: which of the engine rebuilders in our hobby do so to Ford's specs?

[Synchro909]

I have a couple of engines balanced to finer tolerances than Ford used and they have a counterbalanced crank as well. I'd never even think of trying to sit on 60 mph all day long in either of them without the O/D. If nothing else, the centre main bearing won't hold up. I've heard these claims before and I've copped some flack for saying what I just have but experience speaks loudest.
When I'm looking at a Model A with the view to buying it, I ask "At what speed do you cruise?" Anything over 50 and I walk away immediately. 45 - 50, I look REAL CLOSE at the engine, especially the bearings. Haven't bought a dud yet!

[1955cj5]

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Wouldn't it be nice to have every part of your Model A New....not re-built, not refurbished, but new, to new specifications.......and all at the same time!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Pilotdave

Interesting reply, Kevin. Which begs this question: which of the engine rebuilders in our hobby do so to Ford's specs?

We do. We statically balance everything except the crank and the flywheel assy. Dynamically on those. Quite honestly, I suspect all of the major rebuilders do it too. Folks need to realize that most reputable rebuilders will do exactly what you ask them to do. The issue is many customers do not want to pay the additional price for the upgrades such as balancing. I think things have changed in the rebuilding world too. I cannot remember when the last time we rebuilt just a short-block for a customer. Most want a 'long-block plus' these days.

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

Wouldn't it be nice to have every part of your Model A New....not re-built, not refurbished, but new, to new specifications.......and all at the same time!

Yep, and it describes Marco's Roadster pretty much!!

.

[JDupuis]

According to the speedo on my 31 tudor, I CAN do 60 all day. Of course the speedo is a liar. It reads much faster then the reality. #FAKESPEED. Lol Jeff

[Patrick L.]

Ford had a sales gimmick of the day. The sales folks would take a customer on a good paved road and show them that the car would go that fast, but, not do it for very long.

The roads of the day would not allow that and the car was built for the roads of the day.

A properly restored car may be able to run 60 mph for an extended period today, but, at the every least, thats over driving the brakes as far as I'm concerned. JMO

[WHN]

We take really good care of our cars. If something needs to be done, it gets taken care of without trying to do it on the cheap.

35 to 45 miles per hour. My point of view is the sweet spot. 50 plus, well in high school many years ago it was (mine is bigger than yours). Who cares.

[Kevin in NJ]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Ford had a sales gimmick of the day. The sales folks would take a customer on a good paved road and show them that the car would go that fast, but, not do it for very long.

The roads of the day would not allow that and the car was built for the roads of the day.

A properly restored car may be able to run 60 mph for an extended period today, but, at the every least, thats over driving the brakes as far as I'm concerned. JMO

It was not a gimmick.

Marco Tahtaras, who no long posts, has his roadster built back to factory. He will drive it anywhere at highway speeds. I believe he even has done a hill climb. This on a car that is only ever a couple of points from perfect JS correct. I know he has nothing special in the engine, though I believe he has a B cam and the original higher compression head.

You can choose not to believe all you want. There are quite a number of A guys with very stock A's that are running 60 MPH all the time for thousands of miles.

Oh and YES they ran 60 MPH on the crappy dirt roads of the day all the time. Or as fast as they could depending on how wash board the surface was that day. Go read the Legendary Model A Ford book. The A magazines have reprinted article throughout the years from period magazines detailing the people racing coast to coast and such in their A's

Yes, the brakes do a great job stopping at speeds. We were on the belt way going around Chicago at 60-65 when a guy came down an on ramp and slowed down in front of us. I can tell you brakes done right stop the A quite well. Was kind of wishing for seat belts.

FWIW, my brothers speedo reads low by 5 MPH. We thought we were running 55 to 60 MPH. Was not till we ran it with a GPS a few years ago when we found it was reading 5 MPH low.

[Scottio57]

My 30 sport coupe will hold 60 mph but it has an overdrive. (cheating). I would not try 60 without o.d. I had a 49 stock chevy as my D.D. that did 60 all day for years.

[Pilotdave]

We do. We statically balance everything except the crank and the flywheel assy. Dynamically on those. Quite honestly, I suspect all of the major rebuilders do it too. Folks need to realize that most reputable rebuilders will do exactly what you ask them to do. The issue is many customers do not want to pay the additional price for the upgrades such as balancing. I think things have changed in the rebuilding world too. I cannot remember when the last time we rebuilt just a short-block for a customer. Most want a 'long-block plus' these days.

That is good to hear. Having driven several Model A's whose engines are clearly NOT balanced, I will opt for doing so when the time comes that I need to replace an engine.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Mine might do 60 MPH all day long..........but I want my Model A to last longer than a day.

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

....
Marco Tahtaras, who no long posts, has his roadster built back to factory. He will drive it anywhere at highway speeds. I believe he even has done a hill climb. This on a car that is only ever a couple of points from perfect JS correct. I know he has nothing special in the engine, though I believe he has a B cam and the original higher compression head.

.....

A few years ago, I had the pleasure of extensively photographing, and riding in Marco Tahtaras' roadster. Here's a video of a short part of the ride- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMOeS9mGjsg

What Kevin and Brent have told you is true- Marco's Model A roadster is built as exact to factory specs as one could possibly do, using all original parts (right down to the tooling marks on the frame). I can also tell you first hand, that car is fully capable of going 60 MPH. The steering, braking, and smoothness of Marco's roadster set the bar very high for restorers. Almost none ever achieve the fit and feel of an original Model A, let alone the tightness and performance of Marco's roadster.

I own an unrestored Model A fordor, and can tell you that it is also capable of 60 MPH all day. I won't do it, just because it is a preservation car, but it could if the zombie apocalypse happened and we needed it for a getaway car.

[Kevin in NJ]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Mine might do 60 MPH all day long..........but I want my Model A to last longer than a day.

My brothers has 47 years on it. Even at that the babbitt mains needed redone (in 1986)cause the shop did bad work not because it was run 60. The crank, rods and such were not properly balanced either, but the engine only had 40,000 miles on it so not much was needed in the first place.

Keep in mind just because the car can run the 60 MPH all day (and yes has been run a lot at that speed) does not mean it is run that way. To be honest the biggest advantage to a well restored engine is the absolute reliability. The car always goes. The major problem was always just the condensers going bad and the burn out proof A&L units fixed that. It is still using the same points that came with the car in 1970 and it just goes.

[grantsauder]

In 1963 my buddy and I drove a 1930 Phaeton around Australia, covering 10000 miles in 3 months and many days we averaged 450 miles at speeds around 60 mph on a motor that I bought from a wreaking yard and had rebuilt. Pictures taken in Melbourne by the newspaper are now in the National Archives in Canberra. Plate No. DCY662 . Most of the roads at that time were gravel ,dirt and some paved. Regards Grant

[Art Newland]

The engine I installed over the winter is starting, running, and pulling great. Virtually leaking no oil. Couldn't be happier... except for the vibration levels. Much worse that with my old engine. I have a new Mitchel syncro tranny that needs to be installed, so I've been planning to pull the engine again and then having the flywheel and pressure-plate balanced as an assembly. What's the chance this is going to help my situation? I did go back to original style motor mounts because my old FAM mounts were cracking. There is a vibration that occurs just above idle, probably 700 rpm, that is pretty significant and you feel it in the pedals and steering wheel. While you are shifting and the engine is slowing back down for the next gear, is has pretty bad vibes too. It has sweet spots at 35, and at 40 mph, nice and smooth. Accelerating further brings more and more vibes. With the Brumfield HC head it's making 95 PSI in each cylinder, when you are accelerating after shifting to third, each of those more powerful power strokes seem to be transferred directly to the frame! Is that inherent to engines with HC heads?

[H. L. Chauvin]

If Model A owners today would obtain true statistical information on car travel and highway road conditions in the 1920's and 1930's, as opposed to reading repeated, false Model A Forum highway condition assumptions, the facts would appear shocking to most.

One would find that large fuel powered earth moving equipment to knock down hills and fill valleys in hill country were so rare; hence, very steep roads occurred often in hills where one could very seldom see oncoming traffic on the other side of hills; curves were also extremely sharp and meant to be traveled on very slowly.

One would find that horse and mule drawn wagons traveling at about 3 mph were plentiful and could be found everywhere ..... unmarked railroad crossings at 60 mph could send heads through the chicken wired Model A tops.

One would find that the so very few dirt roads were full of deep ruts, gravel roads were even fewer, and short paved roads outside of cities were most difficult to find.

One would find that with distinct vehicle parking lights, people often times just stopped and parked at night in the middle of a travel lane to visit or go to a dance or wedding reception.

One would find that tire flats with tube tires were plentiful where cars were often parked in a travel lane to fix a flat tire because they could not afford a spare tire.

In my opinion, from what I heard from my Dad, (born in 1902), and other seniors who traveled back then, tons of volumes of documented facts could be written on why so very, very few Model A's in 1930, (and, in so few areas of the U.S.), were ever driven: "60 mph all day long."

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Gold Digger

I've read where Ford made the claim that a new model A stock from the factory could run 60 mph all day without damaging the engine. Has anyone ever done this with a stock engine and drivetrain? None I have ever owned would this. I've had some real good Model A's but I would never try that in one. I had a good 49 Chevy once and it gives up on me after about 10 minutes at 60 mph. I went back to flathead v8's.

Is it that you never tried or it could not do it?

Just because an A can do those speeds does not mean you have to do those speeds. Drive the car where you are comfortable, at speeds you are comfortable driving, but do drive it.

[DougVieyra]

My '28 Phaeton, with its stock factory engine, light body, large 21" tires, high-speed rearend, etc. has no difficulty cruising along at 60 mph. And it can do it all day long, comfortably. But as has been mentioned, there are a number of mitigating circumstances that cause that not to happen.

Primarily for me, is the fact that my car's high-speed endurance time is hampered by my bladder.

In 1963, On the long stretches of flat, straight road across the desert between Santa Fe, NM and Bakersfield, Calif., my '28 Phaeton hummed along quite comfortably at 60 mph. However, I never lasted more than 2 or 3 hours before a stop of some sort caused the 60 mph to come to a halt. Food, Gas, leg stretch,etc.; but mainly, to look for a tree to hide behind while I 'relieved' myself.

Once stopped, I did take the time to give the car a 'once over' to assess it's continued suitability to continue on at 60 mph. The car was/in quite capable of going faster, but for my car the 'sweet spot' is between 55 and 60 mph.

The only thing that keeps me from driving at that sustained speed today, is (now that I am old) cautionary prudence. Any vehicle traveling at 60 mph is a flying missile, whose abrupt stop (like against another car, a tree, etc.) can easily cause a great deal of havoc. And I no longer care for the adrenaline "rush".

[Patrick L.]

As far as speedo's are concerned. I should have mentioned it before. Most are inaccurate. Mine reads 40 and the GPS says 45, 50 mph and the GPS says 57.
Like most folks I stick with 40-45. The car likes it and so do I.

[Kevin in NJ]

It is very important to understand.

While we can and do run the A's for sustained 55 to 60 MPH without second thought, quite frankly we are mostly on back roads going to shows running 45 to 50.

It is an important benchmark to understand your cars condition. If it feels like the car does not want to or like to run at those speeds then there is something wrong with your car.
I like to point this out because the vast majority of cars I see in my area are not what I consider safe to run 45 MPH.

The reality is a car that runs 60 MPH comfortably is a very confident, easy driving car at ANY speed. You do not feel like it will behave bad at anytime. It tracks down the road nice regardless of pothole conditions. It accelerates well and it stops with confidence.

Driving cars that are not done very well is a nightmare. No shocks, sloppy steering, marginal braking make for cars that just do not behave well at ANY speed!

Being able to run 60 MPH for extended periods of time is a benchmark for the overall condition of the car. We have let other A people drive our cars and they walk away in amazement at how bad their cars drive. It usually is an expensive drive cause it can take a lot of $$$$ to make a great driving factory like A and once you know what it can do you got to have it.

[FrankWest]

Beware, These cars are almost 90 years old. It is nice to speculate what they performed like when new. But, don't push them, or you may wind up pushing them all the way home and looking for a replacement engine. My 1933 model B easily wants to cruise at 50 mph, but I feel safer driving at around 40. Maybe I am just scared.

[1928Mik]

My car is all stock, happy at around 45 mph or so, maybe 50. I would never push it to 60. How fast does everone drive your cars when out for a cruise?

[1955cj5]

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Originally Posted by 1928Mik

My car is all stock, happy at around 45 mph or so, maybe 50. I would never push it to 60. How fast does everone drive your cars when out for a cruise?

I'm also comfortable at 45 to 50. I've not seen 60 yet on the speedometer. Radiator, engine, transmission, suspension, steering, brakes and tires all new or rebuilt in the last two years.

I suppose it would do 60.....no need though..

[FrankWest]

Check with
http://www.secretsofspeed.com/
These guys modify Model A and Model B engines to perform beyond normal operating ranges..Ask they how long these engines last with this modifications.

[modelaer]

IN my forty years of experience I can tell you that 60 miles an hour driving at interstate speeds will require a babbitt job after 20,000 miles. Been there and done that a few times.

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW: Model A Highway Speed.

I think one of the main differences in one's comfortable Model A highway speeds has to do partly with the actual perceptions of the Model A drivers.

For example ............... most Model A drivers can feel very comfortable driving on back roads at 70 mph in a new heavy SUV ................... however ............ only a very few Model A drivers can feel most comfortable driving on back roads at 70 mph while riding on light weight roller skates.

[Kevin in NJ]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

Beware, These cars are almost 90 years old. It is nice to speculate what they performed like when new. But, don't push them, or you may wind up pushing them all the way home and looking for a replacement engine. My 1933 model B easily wants to cruise at 50 mph, but I feel safer driving at around 40. Maybe I am just scared.

I never understand these statements.

Why would they break easier now that they are 90 years old?

The reason why they break is because the work was done wrong. When they are brought back to factory they fine. It is when you use inferior parts and not correct build the cars that they break.

From what I read you should expect 50,000 to 80,000 miles between babbitt jobs if they are done right. I am pretty sure that was what the NY City police department was reporting. Keep in mind that was with 3 tear downs to re-shim the motor. I could be remembering that wrong, but that is what was sticking in my head.

[Art Newland]

I owned my first 30 coupe about 30 years ago. My dad helped me a lot with it back then. He was a very good mechanic, actually owned a Ford/Mercury wrecking yard back in the day. Anyway, I remember asking him about how fast his Model A's could go and he told me a story about his older sister catching him doing 55 mph in one of his $25 Model A's while she came up behind him in her Merc. He was born in '23 so I imagine this took place in the early 40s. He said that's as fast as it would go... maybe his cars by then were worn out?

[Art Newland]

Kevin in NJ, I would imagine that metal fatigue has to play a role in there somewhere. In my life as a repair person now and then I would run across equipment that had run way beyond it's normal life-span. You would see some of the strangest stuff broken. A culmination of heat, vibration, and stress over time.

[johnbuckley]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

We do. We statically balance everything except the crank and the flywheel assy. Dynamically on those. Quite honestly, I suspect all of the major rebuilders do it too.

.

Good to hear that Brent . And would you accept a warranty claim if the engine failed after circling a race track for 7 hours at 60 mph? No matter how good the rebuild I think this expectation is way too high.

[2manycars]

I drive my tudor at 50-55 on the state roads, but I stay off the interstate roads where traffic is 65-75.

[Fullraceflathead]

You haven't really found the True Top Speed of Henry Ford's Model A until the "Pistons start Swappin' Holes"!!!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by johnbuckley

Good to hear that Brent . And would you accept a warranty claim if the engine failed after circling a race track for 7 hours at 60 mph? No matter how good the rebuild I think this expectation is way too high.

John, I reluctantly am going to answer this even though I am smart enough to know that people will only believe what seems believable to them. If folks have trouble believing they will go for 7 hours at 2500 RPM, then who am I to try to convince them differently, ....however let's at least take a moment to analyze what folks feel is going to fail, ...and why.

Generally speaking, most people are going to overlook valvetrain or connecting rod failures and go straight to the main bearings as the culprit. More specifically, most are going to blame the Center Main.
So let's explore the "why". I have shown the factory print for A-6340 & 6346 here before which shows the shim thickness to be about ½ the thickness size of the reproduction shims available today. I tend to subscribe to the theory that the thicker the shims, the better chance the cap has of "walking" or moving around, --but either way, it is all about supporting the crankshaft center journal pin to keep crank flex or whip at bay.

Next comes the thought about burnishing bearings. Ford's foreman's logs mention this, and aftermarket service machines such as KR Wilson mention Ford Agencies need to be burnishing the bearing material and they sold machines to do this task. When you study the theory on this, burnishing is the plastic deformation of a surface to smooth its roughness - which means it increases it's bearing area. Maximum bearing area means minimum contact pressure and maximum life. Burnishing is also an effective way to work-harden a surface and improve its finish at the same time. Now adding to this, I am pretty sure Ford originally reamed his bearings instead of line boring. So by now, hopefully 'one realizes that properly peened in babbitt, followed by reaming, then burnishing creates a very durable babbitt, ....unlike the practices of many engine rebuilders who have omitted many of these steps and given a bad reputation to use of babbitt.

And finally, a large percentage of crankshafts in Model-A engine's today are out of alignment. Crankshaft work and engine cleaning are the two least profitable jobs in an engine rebuilder's shop. Therefore it is easy for a mediocre rebuilder to skip the steps on straightening and normalizing due to the added time (expense). So comparatively speaking, you have a nearly new Model-A crankshaft that was machined to a tight tolerance and has not been thru many oscillation cycles vs. a reground Model-A crankshaft that more often than not, hasn't been straightened, not ground on center, and not been dynamically balanced, yet this crankshaft and babbitt bearings are the benchmark by which many will claim the Ford Model-A engine cannot be reliably driven at 60 MPH. Folks, feel free to counter and disprove amongst what I am suggesting, because this is like touting which is the best engine oil, and I am choosing to step away and observe from the grandstands.

[quickchange]

Ran a stock body cpe flat head at 88mph , but engine not totally stock, got my timing tag too prove it , cruise my almost stock delivery at 100k . has a Mitchel & B carb . Teds brakes & f1 steering box ,

[SSsssteamer]

When I bought our 1929 Tudor in 1968, it only had 52,000 original miles on it. It had stock tires and a 3.78 rear axle. The motor ran well and it was our second car for 6 years. I ran the interstates with it and it was happy running along all day at 62 mph. In a hurry, I would sometimes push it to 70 mph. Finally one day, I threw number 3 rod bearing while pushing it at 70 mph. A quick swap of a rod from a parts engine got it together again. The con rod was badly mismatched for weight and the Tudor would not do anymore than 60 MPH after that bad experience. So the problem at running high speeds is getting enough oil to a well balanced engine. Now a days, with our tudor, I usually run the freeways at 62 mph. But now in our tudor, I have a model B engine with 3.54 gears in the rear. Nowadays, I do not drive any faster than 62 MPH because that still is our Tudor's sweet spot. Will it still do 70 MPH? Probably. I don't know and I don't have to find out.

[Terry, NJ]

A lot of people will disagree with me, but metal "ages"! And I don't mean oxidation! That too, but that's a separate issue. To illustrate my point, we had some old, WW1 and older 30-06 ammo that we tried firing in our Springfields and the cases either split at the neck or the bases came off. The brass was aging! This was clean stuff too. They looked good! Another example are the old springs in guns. Cocking an old gun (100yrs+) can break the hammer spring. Then there's the example of the ubiquitous model A Block. Obviously, far more engines survived than cars. People took out good running engines, stored them away, just waiting for us to come along. We find them and they're cracked. What happened? Talk to a rebuilder! Ora Landis (Schwalms) told me he went through 4 or 5 blocks to get a good one. So a whole lot of somebodys just saved a bunch of scrap iron for 50-60 years? Not likely! Most of those blocks cracked while they were in storage. So as a practical matter, we have to face the fact that metal ages.
Terry

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

I never understand these statements.

Why would they break easier now that they are 90 years old?

The reason why they break is because the work was done wrong. When they are brought back to factory they fine. It is when you use inferior parts and not correct build the cars that they break.

From what I read you should expect 50,000 to 80,000 miles between babbitt jobs if they are done right. I am pretty sure that was what the NY City police department was reporting. Keep in mind that was with 3 tear downs to re-shim the motor. I could be remembering that wrong, but that is what was sticking in my head.

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good afternoon...It would seem to me to depend on which rear end a Model A is running. Speed on flat ground is much easier with a 3.27 rear end than a 3.54 or a 3.78. If you need to up a steep hill, then a turtle might pass you! In 1931 I doubt that many places had a paved road a couple of hundred miles long so that you could attempt to drive 60 miles and hour all day long.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

I never understand these statements.

Why would they break easier now that they are 90 years old?

The reason why they break is because the work was done wrong. When they are brought back to factory they fine. It is when you use inferior parts and not correct build the cars that they break.

From what I read you should expect 50,000 to 80,000 miles between babbitt jobs if they are done right. I am pretty sure that was what the NY City police department was reporting. Keep in mind that was with 3 tear downs to re-shim the motor. I could be remembering that wrong, but that is what was sticking in my head.

The very nature of materials/metals/ components hardens, crystallizes, with use and time. All Materials including Metals experience thermal expansion and contraction which results in the material becoming work hardened and brittle, and can fracture, crack, after 90 years of heat and stress and deterioration.
Why even shoes can only be resoled a limited time before the shoe totally falls apart.

[Synchro909]

Brent (in post # 36) very well explains what many so called engine reconditioners do wrong. It seems to me that he knows what Ford did and emulates it as well as he can. By the time they started making the Model A, Ford had just made 16 million model Ts. I figure that is a lot of experience and time enough to learn how to do it the best way possible. This applies to not only the bearings but the other things Brent mentioned. I think his comments are worthy of deliberation.
The Model T and A had a reputation for rugged reliability and durability. One has to wonder how long a new one would last today with better oils, air and oil filters counting for longer life and higher speeds counting against.

[Gold Digger]

I'm with Brent on how engines should be built and were built in the day. What has always bothered me is the dip trays. When I was a teenager I worked in a garage for a fellow that was one of the best mechanics that ever new. He was born in 1918 and cut his teeth on model T's and A's. At the time I was driving model A strip downs and Flat head v8's. He told me that at high speed the rods would fan the oil away from the rod dippers anything that wasn't pressure feed. Told me he was taught this at Yaglind Chevrolet in Kanas City in the 40's. He said that was what happened to my 49 Chevy, I should have slowed down and let it oil up for a while. Don't know that this is really what happens as I have read that there is a mist that oils the engine while turning high rpm.

[johnbuckley]

Thank you Brent in 10-uh-C for that excellent explanation in #36. Wish you were over on this side of the pond rebuilding our engines!

[pooch]

This whole thread is hogwash.

An un-counterbalanced flimsy crank can only spin so fast before it pounds itself and the engine to bits..

[WHN]

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My every day driver is a Volvo XC70, it will go over 100 mph but is made to cruise at 70 to 75 mph. My point.

US route 1, one of the oldest highways in the country, runs through our town. I drive it offen with my 29 Sport Coupe. Speed limit today is 45 mph. Nice drive, safe speed, go fast guys are on route 95. Even the Volvo would not be safe on this road at 60 mph.

Highways back in the day were like route 1 still is today. Model A's were designed for the roads of the day. As with today's cars, yes they could go faster but they were designed for the roads of the day.

Who knows what our roads will be like in 80 years.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by pooch

This whole thread is hogwash.

An un-counterbalanced flimsy crank can only spin so fast before it pounds itself and the engine to bits..

Two questions: #1. At what RPM will the crank begin to pound itself to bits? #2. What is the RPM at 60 MPH?

[Kevin in NJ]

Well you all can come up with all your crap about why you think the A should not be driven 60 MPH.

None if it is fact based, just your opinions.

The fact is many guys out there are driving stock A's highway speeds and have been for decades with no problems.

If you do not believe how and why then I suggest you spend more time researching the hows and whys of the well engineered Model A. Unlike other cars of the day, the A was engineered to perform. There is a reason why A's will still get around even when practically every parts is beyond worn out. The other cars of the day were all long in the junk yard while people were still driving A's everyday (we are talking into the early 1970's).

Believe what you want I prefer to know facts.

[V4F]

I had a friend that bought a 2 door in Turlock . did 60 all the way home & then had to replace the motor . mine will do 60 all day , but high gears (3.27) & t-5 of trans + 30" rear tires .

[WHN]

We all are entitled to our views, but not our own facts.

The Model A Ford was designed in 1927, it was designed for driving as it was known at that time. Not 90 years later. There is no way that could have been done.

Was it well designed for the price it sold for? Most likely yes.

No matter what we would like to think. They were not designed for the interstate highway system.

We all can believe what we like. However, they are not even close to being as safe as modern cars.

A Ford Tri-Motor can still be made to fly. Would a pilot fly it hours on end at its maximum top speed? Would they fly it around the Atlanta airport moving in and out of today's jets?

I have a flint lock rifle, I would not go out on today's battle field with it. I will take it to a sport shooting meet and enjoy what it is.

Model A 's are great cars.

[Railcarmover]

The predominant use of ball and roller bearings as well as steel wheels are why the car lasted as long as it did..other low priced cars of the day used wood wheels and bushings in areas that ford used bearings.Its no secret that counter balancing and dynamic balancing a rotating group leads to reliability at high rpm.Pressure feeding rod and main bearings combined with balancing is the key to high speed operation.The engine wasn't designed that way.Either spend what it takes to provide these improvements or live within the engines limitations.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Appears every response and every opinion expressed herein was no doubt differently written by different respectable people only seriously trying to share their different opinions of Model A's traveling at 60 MPH all day long back then and now.

Not implied often was today's drivers who will travel within 24" or less from our rear bumpers, and allow 24" or less clearance from our front bumpers when passing, and pulling out right in front of us while we are traveling at 60 mph in "any" car.

Another concern mentioned often in other posted messages is ...... is it a bit different today with our human driver drug use, human driver texting, and human driver lack of respect for other drivers?

No doubt our highways have improved, Model A's can be carefully restored, but when policemen today in 2017 fear for their lives of being shot when stopping today's drivers, have some noticed that our drivers on today's highways may have changed just a teeny tiny bit.

Can anyone imagine the great risk, and how much respect a guy in 2017 who spent last night rioting and throwing rocks at policemen respects some old wrinkled butt Paw-Paw putting along in his 86 year old smoking, white-walled tire Model A?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

The predominant use of ball and roller bearings as well as steel wheels are why the car lasted as long as it did..other low priced cars of the day used wood wheels and bushings in areas that ford used bearings.Its no secret that counter balancing and dynamic balancing a rotating group leads to reliability at high rpm.Pressure feeding rod and main bearings combined with balancing is the key to high speed operation.The engine wasn't designed that way. Either spend what it takes to provide these improvements or live within the engines limitations.

Geez, I said I was gonna watch this from the stands, and now I am back on the ball field.


A couple of things I would ask you to clarify please;

* You mention "other low priced cars of the day". Would you be so kind as to name a couple of those other 'low priced cars' as I am unaware there were any that were cheaper than the Model-A?? Specifically which one of those lower priced cars used bushings in lieu of bearings??


* I also understand you to infer that it took steel wheels and roller bearings to make a vehicle last all of these years, however is the older more primitive Model-T exempt from this comment? It appears to me they have faired very well even with wood wheels and bushings in the transmission.


* And finally, I believe you stated that pressure feeding mains and rods is the key to high speed operation. Without getting into a controversial debate regarding this, might I suggest you compare the 2500 RPM Model-A engine to a 3600 RPM Briggs & Stratton engine that arguably has a great longevity record without pressure to mains & rods. Then, to spice up the odds, the surface areas comparably show the Model-A engine has approximately a 40% greater surface area of the main bearings over the B&S engine. Many other engine manufacturers successfully create(d) high speed engines without pressurizing the mains, so is pressurizing the oil to the mains really crucial?? .

.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Mine might do 60 MPH all day long..........but I want my Model A to last longer than a day.

I'm with your thinking. I want my engine(s) to last.
My Bs are 'built for the long run'...but would not expect them to last at 60 mph...'all day long' !

Besides, I suspect, like most speedometers...mine is inaccurate (liar ?). Oh, and the brakes get better the faster I go

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Geez, I said I was gonna watch this from the stands, and now I am back on the ball field.


A couple of things I would ask you to clarify please;

* You mention "other low priced cars of the day". Would you be so kind as to name a couple of those other 'low priced cars' as I am unaware there were any that were cheaper than the Model-A?? Specifically which one of those lower priced cars used bushings in lieu of bearings??


* I also understand you to infer that it took steel wheels and roller bearings to make a vehicle last all of these years, however is the older more primitive Model-T exempt from this comment? It appears to me they have faired very well even with wood wheels and bushings in the transmission.


* And finally, I believe you stated that pressure feeding mains and rods is the key to high speed operation. Without getting into a controversial debate regarding this, might I suggest you compare the 2500 RPM Model-A engine to a 3600 RPM Briggs & Stratton engine that arguably has a great longevity record without pressure to mains & rods. Then, to spice up the odds, the surface areas comparably show the Model-A engine has approximately a 40% greater surface area of the main bearings over the B&S engine. Many other engine manufacturers successfully create(d) high speed engines without pressurizing the mains, so is pressurizing the oil to the mains really crucial?? .

.

Briggs and Stratton engine loads are lower per horsepower and are irrelevant to a discussion of water cooled splash/pressure fed automotive engines.. So are you saying pressure feeding rods and mains aren't an improvement over splash feeding? especially when it comes to high RPM applications?

Murray Fahnestock https://www.google.com/search?q=murr...Wac4AwTFemJfM: cited steel wheels and more bearings used in the model a than competitive brands as a reason for their longevity,I agreed with him.

You bring up and interesting point,the percentage of models T's that survived against total production against the model a..I dont know the facts on this,but Id bet the percentage of A's survived is higher than the T's...Wood wheels had a lot to do with the demise of many cars

[pooch]

Most modern speedos over read, to keep people under the limit.

I would guess the Model A did so too WHEN new.

Strong new magnets inside the drum.

A 1928 salesman takes a feller for a ride who has only ever driven a Model T at 35 MPH.

The salesman don't care, it is just a brand new production model needing to be sold.

He scares the beegeezers out of the feller in the passenger seat and says LOOK, 60 MPH.

Prob more like a real 54 MPH ..

Model A speedos read slower as they age and the magnetism fades, just like memories of the good ole days, when every one flogged old cars because they were cheap and expendable .

I have done a lot of restoration of bodies in my time, not so much full restos, but sandblasting and rust, and I reckon the Model A survived by virtue of Ford using the best metals in the mechanicals , and very little wood in the bodies, and by their stying.... there were a lot of ugly cars about back then, that nobody wanted or cared to save..

I think the 28 chev outsold the Model A , how many of these are left ?

Prob a few hundreds of thousands, but no where near the A.

The bodies fell apart.

[Patrick L.]

just like memories of the good ole days, end quote

insert smiley face here.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Does anyone understand the relationship of peak hp and torque? I don't. So can someone explain how driving an engine over the rpm / hp torque curve is ok for extended periods of time. 60 mph with 3:78 gears = 2628 rpm ( 19" wheels) Ford rated brake hp at 2200 rpm. It seems to me ?, that would be the top safe rated rpm?? Or do you just drive it over its top performance rpm, and all you lose is hp and torque, but not bearings?
I know you don't drive a 348 or 409 over it's rated 6000 rpm or you'll be buying a new engine ?

[pooch]

2200 RPM is the maximum brake horsepower and I would suggest IF the Model A had a tacho it would be redlined at 2200.

Who would drive their car way over the redline "all day long" ?

How long will a stock engine last at 2628 RPM.

Thanks for adding the RPM at 60 MPH, I did work it out some time ago when this fanciful 60MPH all day long notion came up.

I would hate to loan my A or have a prospective buyer run it flat out to see how fast it went and then complain when his fillings fell out with the vibration and said "i Have read these things do 60 MPH easy "..

Tell 'im he's dreamin'.

This is the only way you can get a Model A to do 60 MPH all day long........

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...psvtiqkrcq.jpg

[Mike V. Florida]

So the people who state that they have driven their A's for hours at 60 are liars?

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

So the people who state that they have driven their A's for hours at 60 are liars?

You shouda seen the fish that got away! Maybe some stretch the truth somewhat. Some don't care how often they will need to rebuild or replace an engine, and some just believe. The engine could be replaced in 1940 for about $100 or less. Parts & labor. I wouldn't drive max RPM all day.

[wensum]

Our speedster with Light body and greatly improved engine plus F150 gearbox with 42% overdrive will cruise effortlessly at 60mph, however we find the condition of the roads is the limiting factor and often we are reduced to 50mph just for safety reasons.
The light body makes the standard suspension too stiff, and despite removing leaves, four at the front a one at the rear to give a more supple ride, plus greased leaves, the lack of rearward movement of the axles due to transverse springs and radius arms gives a sometimes severe ride when encountering road irregularities.
Keith

[pooch]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

So the people who state that they have driven their A's for hours at 60 are liars?

With a stock rear end, a stock engine, and no overdrive, no I would not call them liars if they drove for hours at 60 MPH,

I would call them stupid or people with more money than sense, and a good tow insurance policy.

[Patrick L.]

This is much like talking politics isn't it. About as productive too.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

This is much like talking politics isn't it. About as productive too.

True, asking about something that people have not done but believe will happen on both sides of the question.

[updraught]

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Originally Posted by wensum

Our speedster with Light body and greatly improved engine plus F150 gearbox with 42% overdrive will cruise effortlessly at 60mph, however we find the condition of the roads is the limiting factor and often we are reduced to 50mph just for safety reasons.
The light body makes the standard suspension too stiff, and despite removing leaves, four at the front a one at the rear to give a more supple ride, plus greased leaves, the lack of rearward movement of the axles due to transverse springs and radius arms gives a sometimes severe ride when encountering road irregularities.
Keith

Maybe start a new thread, there were plenty of sports built on bare chassis during the 20's.

[Tom Wesenberg]

VW in the 60's used to advertise that you could drive the bug wide open, but they had a small carb to limit the speed to about 72 MPH, or was it 62 MPH.

I agree with everyone that says 60 MPH for a stock Model A is foolish, and very hard on the engine. I would no more think of driving my Model A wide open, than driving my modern car wide open.

Now, I wish this thread would hit the road at 60 MPH all day long.

[J Franklin]

I think this thread is a good one especially for newcomers to the model A. It might give them pause before taking their newly acquired A out on the freeway and then needing a new engine or grave sight.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

I think this thread is a good one especially for newcomers to the model A. It might give them pause before taking their newly acquired A out on the freeway and then needing a new engine or grave sight.

Well said!

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

VW in the 60's used to advertise that you could drive the bug wide open, but they had a small carb to limit the speed to about 72 MPH, or was it 62 MPH.

I agree with everyone that says 60 MPH for a stock Model A is foolish, and very hard on the engine. I would no more think of driving my Model A wide open, than driving my modern car wide open.

Now, I wish this thread would hit the road at 60 MPH all day long.

The car was one of the first to use a wind tunnel for design.100km per hour or 62 mph was their standard.Horizontally opposed 4 cyl takes the strain of wide open throttle better due to the natural balancing effect..

[Patrick L.]

Now, I wish this thread would hit the road at 60 MPH all day long. end quote

Me too.

So, to continue it anyway.

There was someone awhile back that kept insisting he drove his 'A' at WOT every time in 1st and 2nd. To each his own.

About 40 years ago a friend virtually stole mine and went sight seeing with it. When he came back coolant was flowing down the hood and running boards and the left side of the engine was covered with oil from the filler/breather. Needless to say I was a bit upset with him. He just said he was trying to drive it as he remembered driving them. Its the same 1961 engine today.

When I get to thoroughly restore one and find it can go '60 all day long' that'll be fine, but, doesn't mean I'll do it. But, I wouldn't use a completely stock engine today either.

[dean from bozeman]

Ask anyone who has driven or has been a passenger in an original, low mileage Model A (let's say less than 50,000 miles) about the ride. I've driven a 32,000 mile original "A" and was a passenger in a 4,000 mile original "A". Those were the two best riding A's that I've ever been in. The ride, the acceleration, the feel is better than just about any other "A".

Could those A's drive at 60 mph all day long? I don't know. However, they are a testament to how an engine with the original specifications would run. They are a testament to the benefit of using original materials. They have proven to me that we don't need to "improve" the Model A to get a comfortable, smooth ride. The original materials and specs are just fine.

[H. L. Chauvin]

If one reads all different Model A Forum posts for the past 20+ years, appears at least 95% of Model A owners are continually asking questions about:

"How do I fix my oil burning, worn out knocking Model A with a leaking head gasket and leaking manifold, noisy valves, lead chips and water in the bottom of the oil pan, poor compression, and poor brakes."

Hmmmmmmm !!!! Appears one rarely reads comments stating:

"Hey guys, just reporting, (with absolutely "NO" mechanical modifications), I drive my standard Model A 60 MPH All Day Long !!

In my humble opinion, "everybody" is completely and totally missing the point!

I mean .... wake up .......... the Russians are hacking our Forum messages !!!!

[marc hildebrant]

At a car show in Longmont, Colorado, I had a chance to talk to a Model A owner with a original car. Interior was shot and the paint was gone. Engine was original and worked fine. As he was leaving, I asked what speed he would drive on the interstate on the way home. He said, "55 mph". Car drives fine and is smooth running.

The family had stuff roped all around to the car...looked like the old show Beverley Hillbillies.

I believe that a new Model A could drive 60 MPH with now problem for quite some time.

Marc

[pooch]

If only the people with foot on the pedal just knew how much bending up and down force there is on that flimsy crank and centre babbit when the pistons change direction at 87.6 times per second at 2628 RPM..

Count one one thousand, your crank has just been subject to 87.6 pulls and pushes up and down
.

[frank55a]

Many have said the Model A design speed was based on the roads of the day. You need to read the attached article.

This 3 year old strictly stock tudor known as the Phoenix Flyer which had established the record from LA to Phoenix, returned 3 years later and after 64,000 miles to better the time by 2 hours and 24 minutes over one of the most grueling 892-mile speed tests in the west. The entire round trip of 892 miles from LA to Phoenix and back to LA over burning deserts sands and steep mountain passes was made by this 3 year old car at an incredible average speed of 61.03 MPH.
Further just prior to this LA to Phoenix run the PF ran 500 miles over Muroc dry lake at an average of 66.66 MPH.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by frank55a

Many have said the Model A design speed was based on the roads of the day. You need to read the attached article.

This 3 year old strictly stock tudor known as the Phoenix Flyer which had established the record from LA to Phoenix, returned 3 years later and after 64,000 miles to better the time by 2 hours and 24 minutes over one of the most grueling 892-mile speed tests in the west. The entire round trip of 892 miles from LA to Phoenix and back to LA over burning deserts sands and steep mountain passes was made by this 3 year old car at an incredible average speed of 61.03 MPH.
Further just prior to this LA to Phoenix run the PF ran 500 miles over Muroc dry lake at an average of 66.66 MPH.

We know only one thing as a fact. The Model A Ford was designed in 1927, using technology know at that time.

Your article is great reading. However, we don't know what if anything was done to this car after 64,000 miles. We don't know now much longer after the record run this car was drivable.

Back in high school I burned up a perfectly good 55 Chevy in less that three months. My parents were not happy, and I still don't learn anything about taking care of cars. I know now, cars aren't $50.00 anymore.

Fact, the Model A Ford was a good improvement over the Model T, but not a great high speed road car given other brands of the day.

[pooch]

Pretty soon this thread will have the ole A doing 95 MPH, lasting 250000 miles with no oil or air filter and getting 55 MPG.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by frank55a

Many have said the Model A design speed was based on the roads of the day. You need to read the attached article.

This 3 year old strictly stock tudor known as the Phoenix Flyer which had established the record from LA to Phoenix, returned 3 years later and after 64,000 miles to better the time by 2 hours and 24 minutes over one of the most grueling 892-mile speed tests in the west. The entire round trip of 892 miles from LA to Phoenix and back to LA over burning deserts sands and steep mountain passes was made by this 3 year old car at an incredible average speed of 61.03 MPH.
Further just prior to this LA to Phoenix run the PF ran 500 miles over Muroc dry lake at an average of 66.66 MPH.

Note the last 2 paragraphs of the article. The car was "torn down for inspection" at 64,000 miles and had "practically no wear". The driver said that was because it was "so perfectly lubricated". So all that is needed to drive at 60 all day is to use "HyVis" oil! Wonder who sells it these days.

Seriously, though, this report does show that the mains and rods do get enough oil at a continuous 60+ MPH. So the stock splash system is not the limiting factor. The stock fan, water pump and radiator must have worked OK too. The steering and suspension must have OK too. Nothing in the report about repeatedly running off the road and rolling over! Brakes? Not an issue with no traffic.
So why say an A cannot run 60 MPH all day?? This one did!

[WHN]

I would like to think that we all agree the Model A is a great car and fun to own.

I enjoy reading everyone's comments.

All of you guys are great. Keep the issues going!

[J Franklin]

I would run it at 60 MPH if I could replace it for under $600 new!

[Fullraceflathead]

I Truly Wonder if Henry Ford is Smiling in his Grave over this Subject

[Kurt in NJ]

I have run 65 all day-- after running 55+ for 2 days, that was 25 years ago and I am still trying to break it--- full advance, closed gav got 23 mpg at 65

If you truly restore to original specifications you will find that most modifications are not needed

[H. L. Chauvin]

Never noticed this mentioned before; however, on a slightly different audible subject, any comments on:

While in a totally "unmodified" 1928 - 1931 Model A ...... while cruising at 65 mph, ... with windshield closed, windows rolled up ......... on a scale of 1 to 10 ...... what is the required volume setting inside this Model A for listening and enjoying classical music played on a portable 2017 CD player?

Just wondering about audible toleration for guys with good hearing after driving a totally "unmodified" Model A at 60 mph for ........ 8 hours .... could this be more effective than obtaining enemy military information with water-boarding?

[pooch]

Originally Posted by frank55a

Many have said the Model A design speed was based on the roads of the day. You need to read the attached article.

This 3 year old strictly stock tudor known as the Phoenix Flyer which had established the record from LA to Phoenix, returned 3 years later and after 64,000 miles to better the time by 2 hours and 24 minutes over one of the most grueling 892-mile speed tests in the west. The entire round trip of 892 miles from LA to Phoenix and back to LA over burning deserts sands and steep mountain passes was made by this 3 year old car at an incredible average speed of 61.03 MPH.
Further just prior to this LA to Phoenix run the PF ran 500 miles over Muroc dry lake at an average of 66.66 MPH.

I zoomed in on the text of this pic.

Ya gotta just love the bit in the second column that says......

THE MODEL A IS THE NEAREST THING TO THE RACING CAR THAT I KNOW .....

Still laffing at that one.... a stock A tudor!!!!!

[40 Deluxe]

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Originally Posted by pooch

I zoomed in on the text of this pic.

Ya gotta just love the bit in the second column that says......

THE MODEL A IS THE NEAREST THING TO THE RACING CAR THAT I KNOW .....

Still laffing at that one.... a stock A tudor!!!!!

Well, the professional rebuilders on this forum say that the factory specs for an A engine are the same as modern race engine specs, so maybe the guy was right!

[BN]

Several posts in this thread have eluded to Ford's close machining tolerances and weight tolerances resulting in well balanced low vibration running engines. I have not seen any posts discussing the 2 per Rev (vibration frequency of 2 x RPM) which is inherent in any inline 4 cylinder engine. This 2 per Rev vibration is often called “secondary vibration” whereas 1 per Rev vibration is often called “primary vibration”. Modern 4 cylinder engines get around this 2 per Rev vibration problem by implementing an eccentric weight rotating 2 x engine speed. This 2 per Rev vibration is caused by the acceleration required to reverse the direction of the piston/rod assembly being different at TDC than at BDC. This is due to the difference in the angle between the crank pin and rod at, say, 5 Deg from TDC verses 5 Deg from BDC. This 2 per Rev vibration becomes stronger with longer connecting rods (as in a Model A engine). In addition, the two center pistons move together and the two end pistons move together in order to prevent a terrible rocking vibration. However, this results in an up/down vibration twice as severe. The engine in my 1929 Roadster was machined by a local well known reputable antique engine builder and included a counter weighted crank and a balance job. The car runs smoothly up to about 40 MPH, but then a vibration starts coming on at higher speeds and is much worse at 55 MPH. It is clearly a 2 per Rev vibration. I have never had the car above 55. It appears that Henry Ford was not oblivious to this 2 per Rev vibration problem. He took out a patent for a “vibration tuner” that diminishes this vibration somewhat which fit inside the oil pan. A “vibration tuner” is a small mass (of specified value) connected to a vibrating large mass (the engine block) by a spring (of specified value). I have often wondered if Ford went from the solid front motor mount to one with springs in an effort to reduce this 2 per Rev vibration.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by BN

It appears that Henry Ford was not oblivious to this 2 per Rev vibration problem. He took out a patent for a “vibration tuner” that diminishes this vibration somewhat which fit inside the oil pan. A “vibration tuner” is a small mass (of specified value) connected to a vibrating large mass (the engine block) by a spring (of specified value).

Is this the real reason the oil pump is held in with a spring?!

[BN]

Is this the real reason the oil pump is held in with a spring?!

Interesting thought. Did the early V8s (which did not have the 2 per Rev vibration problem) have spring mounted oil pumps?

[RawhideKid]

If I remember my early V8's, the oil pump was held in with a bolt to the bottom of the block.

[Kevin in NJ]

Originally Posted by BN

The engine in my 1929 Roadster was machined by a local well known reputable antique engine builder and included a counter weighted crank and a balance job.

Local well known reputable builder does not say much. Putting an engine together that sort of runs well up to 45 is not hard and you do not have to pay attention to much detail.

I quickly will start asking questions.

How was the crank ground? Was it checked for accuracy after grinding? Is the flywheel less then .001" from the center line? Are all the center lines the same?

What about the rods? Ford spec was a certain weight +- 1 gram at each end. Today most rods are +-5 grams total weight.

The rod/piston assembly was within 4grams in an engine.

Is your rebuilder aware of these specs? Can he build to these specs?

There are many variables that need to be considered when rebuilding the engine. I have been told by some rebuilders that Ford never built to those specs so why should they.

It is not easy, cheap or quick to properly rebuild the A. You have to ask lots of questions and know the answers. I have had access to Ford prints to know how many areas of the A were built at the factory so I know what it is supposed to be. Does your rebuilder know? Could he build to factory specs? Has he done tests of his work to be sure he can repeatably get the same accuracy in a build?

There is a reason why some cars have no trouble going over 55 MPH. There is also a reason why most do not.

[H. L. Chauvin]

At first decided not to tell my very recent 60 MPH experience and True Story; but so what ... here goes:

My wife and I, on a back road, drove a short distance, maybe one (1) mile, at 60 MPH the Saturday of the past weekend of the 4th of July in my 1930 Town Sedan.

I have a balanced Ron Kelley counter-weighted crank with his lightened balanced flywheel; (4) Coker 550-19" "Radial" tires; Police hi-compression head; Stipe 330 cam; B carburetor and B distributor; 3:27 differential ........... so in no way will I even attempt to try to convince anyone that this is an "original" Model A engine like that which I have in my 1930 Coupe.

At 60. still had space between accelerator and floor board; however, I have never tried to exceed 60 MPH in this car .... yet.

I usually average about 50 MPH when no rural traffic is around and no residences and no rural businesses are in sight; so at first I felt somewhat safe at 60 MPH with nobody behind me, no oncoming traffic, and just woods on both sides of this remote highway.

Then I thought about what if a deer crossed the road right in front of me like with my modern car a few years back, so I slowed back down to 50 MPH.

About five (5) minutes later, something rather startling ....... with no traffic, about 50 yards in front of me, a huge six (6) foot long alligator rapidly dashed across the road.

I then slowed down to about 20 MPH ....... then for a moment I couldn't remember off hand when was alligator mating season just in case this first alligator may have been a female.

Started laughing in thinking maybe a worse case Model A scenario may be to hit an alligator in the middle of nowhere, swerve to one side, get thrown out of a Model A, and have to fight a mean retaliating alligator with a Model A crank while my wife is trying to dial 911.

[Mike V. Florida]

The problem with this thread is the "... all day long" part. Even before I put the HC head on my car I did drive on the turnpike to shows early Sunday mornings and I did hit 60 for stretches but not all day long. I still have the engine and it still runs fine. Does this prove anything? I don't think so since I did not drive it all day that way.