60 miles per hour all day long

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

I never understand these statements.

Why would they break easier now that they are 90 years old?

The reason why they break is because the work was done wrong. When they are brought back to factory they fine. It is when you use inferior parts and not correct build the cars that they break.

From what I read you should expect 50,000 to 80,000 miles between babbitt jobs if they are done right. I am pretty sure that was what the NY City police department was reporting. Keep in mind that was with 3 tear downs to re-shim the motor. I could be remembering that wrong, but that is what was sticking in my head.

The very nature of materials/metals/ components hardens, crystallizes, with use and time. All Materials including Metals experience thermal expansion and contraction which results in the material becoming work hardened and brittle, and can fracture, crack, after 90 years of heat and stress and deterioration.
Why even shoes can only be resoled a limited time before the shoe totally falls apart.

[Synchro909]

Brent (in post # 36) very well explains what many so called engine reconditioners do wrong. It seems to me that he knows what Ford did and emulates it as well as he can. By the time they started making the Model A, Ford had just made 16 million model Ts. I figure that is a lot of experience and time enough to learn how to do it the best way possible. This applies to not only the bearings but the other things Brent mentioned. I think his comments are worthy of deliberation.
The Model T and A had a reputation for rugged reliability and durability. One has to wonder how long a new one would last today with better oils, air and oil filters counting for longer life and higher speeds counting against.

[Gold Digger]

I'm with Brent on how engines should be built and were built in the day. What has always bothered me is the dip trays. When I was a teenager I worked in a garage for a fellow that was one of the best mechanics that ever new. He was born in 1918 and cut his teeth on model T's and A's. At the time I was driving model A strip downs and Flat head v8's. He told me that at high speed the rods would fan the oil away from the rod dippers anything that wasn't pressure feed. Told me he was taught this at Yaglind Chevrolet in Kanas City in the 40's. He said that was what happened to my 49 Chevy, I should have slowed down and let it oil up for a while. Don't know that this is really what happens as I have read that there is a mist that oils the engine while turning high rpm.

[johnbuckley]

Thank you Brent in 10-uh-C for that excellent explanation in #36. Wish you were over on this side of the pond rebuilding our engines!

[pooch]

This whole thread is hogwash.

An un-counterbalanced flimsy crank can only spin so fast before it pounds itself and the engine to bits..

[WHN]

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My every day driver is a Volvo XC70, it will go over 100 mph but is made to cruise at 70 to 75 mph. My point.

US route 1, one of the oldest highways in the country, runs through our town. I drive it offen with my 29 Sport Coupe. Speed limit today is 45 mph. Nice drive, safe speed, go fast guys are on route 95. Even the Volvo would not be safe on this road at 60 mph.

Highways back in the day were like route 1 still is today. Model A's were designed for the roads of the day. As with today's cars, yes they could go faster but they were designed for the roads of the day.

Who knows what our roads will be like in 80 years.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by pooch

This whole thread is hogwash.

An un-counterbalanced flimsy crank can only spin so fast before it pounds itself and the engine to bits..

Two questions: #1. At what RPM will the crank begin to pound itself to bits? #2. What is the RPM at 60 MPH?

[Kevin in NJ]

Well you all can come up with all your crap about why you think the A should not be driven 60 MPH.

None if it is fact based, just your opinions.

The fact is many guys out there are driving stock A's highway speeds and have been for decades with no problems.

If you do not believe how and why then I suggest you spend more time researching the hows and whys of the well engineered Model A. Unlike other cars of the day, the A was engineered to perform. There is a reason why A's will still get around even when practically every parts is beyond worn out. The other cars of the day were all long in the junk yard while people were still driving A's everyday (we are talking into the early 1970's).

Believe what you want I prefer to know facts.

[V4F]

I had a friend that bought a 2 door in Turlock . did 60 all the way home & then had to replace the motor . mine will do 60 all day , but high gears (3.27) & t-5 of trans + 30" rear tires .

[WHN]

We all are entitled to our views, but not our own facts.

The Model A Ford was designed in 1927, it was designed for driving as it was known at that time. Not 90 years later. There is no way that could have been done.

Was it well designed for the price it sold for? Most likely yes.

No matter what we would like to think. They were not designed for the interstate highway system.

We all can believe what we like. However, they are not even close to being as safe as modern cars.

A Ford Tri-Motor can still be made to fly. Would a pilot fly it hours on end at its maximum top speed? Would they fly it around the Atlanta airport moving in and out of today's jets?

I have a flint lock rifle, I would not go out on today's battle field with it. I will take it to a sport shooting meet and enjoy what it is.

Model A 's are great cars.

[Railcarmover]

The predominant use of ball and roller bearings as well as steel wheels are why the car lasted as long as it did..other low priced cars of the day used wood wheels and bushings in areas that ford used bearings.Its no secret that counter balancing and dynamic balancing a rotating group leads to reliability at high rpm.Pressure feeding rod and main bearings combined with balancing is the key to high speed operation.The engine wasn't designed that way.Either spend what it takes to provide these improvements or live within the engines limitations.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Appears every response and every opinion expressed herein was no doubt differently written by different respectable people only seriously trying to share their different opinions of Model A's traveling at 60 MPH all day long back then and now.

Not implied often was today's drivers who will travel within 24" or less from our rear bumpers, and allow 24" or less clearance from our front bumpers when passing, and pulling out right in front of us while we are traveling at 60 mph in "any" car.

Another concern mentioned often in other posted messages is ...... is it a bit different today with our human driver drug use, human driver texting, and human driver lack of respect for other drivers?

No doubt our highways have improved, Model A's can be carefully restored, but when policemen today in 2017 fear for their lives of being shot when stopping today's drivers, have some noticed that our drivers on today's highways may have changed just a teeny tiny bit.

Can anyone imagine the great risk, and how much respect a guy in 2017 who spent last night rioting and throwing rocks at policemen respects some old wrinkled butt Paw-Paw putting along in his 86 year old smoking, white-walled tire Model A?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

The predominant use of ball and roller bearings as well as steel wheels are why the car lasted as long as it did..other low priced cars of the day used wood wheels and bushings in areas that ford used bearings.Its no secret that counter balancing and dynamic balancing a rotating group leads to reliability at high rpm.Pressure feeding rod and main bearings combined with balancing is the key to high speed operation.The engine wasn't designed that way. Either spend what it takes to provide these improvements or live within the engines limitations.

Geez, I said I was gonna watch this from the stands, and now I am back on the ball field.


A couple of things I would ask you to clarify please;

* You mention "other low priced cars of the day". Would you be so kind as to name a couple of those other 'low priced cars' as I am unaware there were any that were cheaper than the Model-A?? Specifically which one of those lower priced cars used bushings in lieu of bearings??


* I also understand you to infer that it took steel wheels and roller bearings to make a vehicle last all of these years, however is the older more primitive Model-T exempt from this comment? It appears to me they have faired very well even with wood wheels and bushings in the transmission.


* And finally, I believe you stated that pressure feeding mains and rods is the key to high speed operation. Without getting into a controversial debate regarding this, might I suggest you compare the 2500 RPM Model-A engine to a 3600 RPM Briggs & Stratton engine that arguably has a great longevity record without pressure to mains & rods. Then, to spice up the odds, the surface areas comparably show the Model-A engine has approximately a 40% greater surface area of the main bearings over the B&S engine. Many other engine manufacturers successfully create(d) high speed engines without pressurizing the mains, so is pressurizing the oil to the mains really crucial?? .

.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Mine might do 60 MPH all day long..........but I want my Model A to last longer than a day.

I'm with your thinking. I want my engine(s) to last.
My Bs are 'built for the long run'...but would not expect them to last at 60 mph...'all day long' !

Besides, I suspect, like most speedometers...mine is inaccurate (liar ?). Oh, and the brakes get better the faster I go

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Geez, I said I was gonna watch this from the stands, and now I am back on the ball field.


A couple of things I would ask you to clarify please;

* You mention "other low priced cars of the day". Would you be so kind as to name a couple of those other 'low priced cars' as I am unaware there were any that were cheaper than the Model-A?? Specifically which one of those lower priced cars used bushings in lieu of bearings??


* I also understand you to infer that it took steel wheels and roller bearings to make a vehicle last all of these years, however is the older more primitive Model-T exempt from this comment? It appears to me they have faired very well even with wood wheels and bushings in the transmission.


* And finally, I believe you stated that pressure feeding mains and rods is the key to high speed operation. Without getting into a controversial debate regarding this, might I suggest you compare the 2500 RPM Model-A engine to a 3600 RPM Briggs & Stratton engine that arguably has a great longevity record without pressure to mains & rods. Then, to spice up the odds, the surface areas comparably show the Model-A engine has approximately a 40% greater surface area of the main bearings over the B&S engine. Many other engine manufacturers successfully create(d) high speed engines without pressurizing the mains, so is pressurizing the oil to the mains really crucial?? .

.

Briggs and Stratton engine loads are lower per horsepower and are irrelevant to a discussion of water cooled splash/pressure fed automotive engines.. So are you saying pressure feeding rods and mains aren't an improvement over splash feeding? especially when it comes to high RPM applications?

Murray Fahnestock https://www.google.com/search?q=murr...Wac4AwTFemJfM: cited steel wheels and more bearings used in the model a than competitive brands as a reason for their longevity,I agreed with him.

You bring up and interesting point,the percentage of models T's that survived against total production against the model a..I dont know the facts on this,but Id bet the percentage of A's survived is higher than the T's...Wood wheels had a lot to do with the demise of many cars

[pooch]

Most modern speedos over read, to keep people under the limit.

I would guess the Model A did so too WHEN new.

Strong new magnets inside the drum.

A 1928 salesman takes a feller for a ride who has only ever driven a Model T at 35 MPH.

The salesman don't care, it is just a brand new production model needing to be sold.

He scares the beegeezers out of the feller in the passenger seat and says LOOK, 60 MPH.

Prob more like a real 54 MPH ..

Model A speedos read slower as they age and the magnetism fades, just like memories of the good ole days, when every one flogged old cars because they were cheap and expendable .

I have done a lot of restoration of bodies in my time, not so much full restos, but sandblasting and rust, and I reckon the Model A survived by virtue of Ford using the best metals in the mechanicals , and very little wood in the bodies, and by their stying.... there were a lot of ugly cars about back then, that nobody wanted or cared to save..

I think the 28 chev outsold the Model A , how many of these are left ?

Prob a few hundreds of thousands, but no where near the A.

The bodies fell apart.

[Patrick L.]

just like memories of the good ole days, end quote

insert smiley face here.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Does anyone understand the relationship of peak hp and torque? I don't. So can someone explain how driving an engine over the rpm / hp torque curve is ok for extended periods of time. 60 mph with 3:78 gears = 2628 rpm ( 19" wheels) Ford rated brake hp at 2200 rpm. It seems to me ?, that would be the top safe rated rpm?? Or do you just drive it over its top performance rpm, and all you lose is hp and torque, but not bearings?
I know you don't drive a 348 or 409 over it's rated 6000 rpm or you'll be buying a new engine ?

[pooch]

2200 RPM is the maximum brake horsepower and I would suggest IF the Model A had a tacho it would be redlined at 2200.

Who would drive their car way over the redline "all day long" ?

How long will a stock engine last at 2628 RPM.

Thanks for adding the RPM at 60 MPH, I did work it out some time ago when this fanciful 60MPH all day long notion came up.

I would hate to loan my A or have a prospective buyer run it flat out to see how fast it went and then complain when his fillings fell out with the vibration and said "i Have read these things do 60 MPH easy "..

Tell 'im he's dreamin'.

This is the only way you can get a Model A to do 60 MPH all day long........

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...psvtiqkrcq.jpg

[Mike V. Florida]

So the people who state that they have driven their A's for hours at 60 are liars?