Shifting trouble in a 29'

[1955cj5]

Does the small return spring that you removed look like this one?

https://www.brattons.com/throw-out-bearing-spring.html

[iamskee]

I was worried when you asked this, but just checked, and it is! It is also 11 turns just like the one in the picture.

[Gunmetal blue2]

http://s737.photobucket.com/user/192...d9e72.jpg.html This is what my throw out bearing looks like. I have a 1929 AA.

[Gunmetal blue2]

So for all the dirt. this is mine http://s737.photobucket.com/user/192...1dc53.jpg.html

[iamskee]

Thanks, Gunmetal. It's great to see the inside, and it looks like they are the same!

[J Franklin]

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With the spring off does the collar move smoothly for and aft as it should? With the collar forward do the shafts turn freely in the bushings? Are there wear spots in the collar or fork faces that would impede the collars return? If all is right then you should not have this no return condition.

[1955cj5]

Originally Posted by Bob C

I went back and glanced at your posts and I don't see where you ever measured your
free play. Pull the pedal all the way back till it hits the stop and them measure how much travel you have in the pedal till the throw out bearing just touches the clutch fingers.

Bob

I think you need to follow Bob's advice and double check the free play.

Having the bearing and carrier retract fully is desirable, but has no effect on you ability to dis-engage the clutch.

The amount of free-play will directly affect the operation of your clutch, and your ability to shift smoothly....

[Bob C]

[QUOTE=iamskee;1473596]Little update. Removed the spring, it is held on by the black wire seen in the video. The hub does not move forward/backward with the pedal at rest, if that makes sense. If I pull the pedal all the way back the hub moves freely. I don't think the spring is bad but I sure hope there's a fix for this without removing everything as I do not have the means to. Anyone else experience this? It's almost as if the hub is stuck when too far forward and need the pedal to pull it back. The car was sitting for a while, but I doubt rust could have formed in just a small section causing it to bind when forward. Two videos, essentially the same think just different angle.

Pulling the pedal back will not pull the hub back. With the spring disconnected the hub should not come back if you pull the pedal back.

Bob

[iamskee]

1955 I did check the freeplay and adjusted for what should be an adequate setting for now but as I said after I adjusted it to have less free play, the hub will not retract even when I pull the pedal back. So I fear I will have to readjust it again.

Bob, as I wrote and seen in the video, the hub has no horizontal movement until I pull the pedal back with, or without the spring.

I understand the need to adjust the clutch and eventually I will get it zeroed in and perfect but the problem is that the hub does not want to retract on its own, with or without the spring(using my fingers to try to get it back doesn't work either) which causes the bearing to constantly spin.


I don't know what the interior connection from the pedal linkage to the hub looks like but I have a feeling that may be the issue. Why else when I pull the pedal back would the hub move freely? I don't think there is anspring strong enough that would pull the hub back. I also no longer believe it is due to corrosion on the shaft.

[1955cj5]

Here is a picture of a AA transmission clutch housing......same linkage as the A.

You can see the clutch shaft and the fork in the center.

There is no fixed mechanical connection between the fork and the throw out carrier..

The fork simply pushes on the carrier to disengage the clutch and then the pressure plate fingers and the small coil spring return it, the fork cannot pull the carrier back away from the pressure plate.

If you disconnect the clutch adjustment yoke from the actuating arm will the throwout carrier move all the way back? This takes the pedal out of the linkage....

[denniskliesen]

You might try removing the pin on your adjusting link, see if the lower release shaft is sticky when you move it by hand with the release bearing spring off. and while you have that link off your clutch pedal should move freely also. I'm wondering if there is binding when your link pins to the lower arm...

[iamskee]

Thank you for the replies. I have tried your suggestions this morning. I disconnected the pedal and had the same result. When the hub is forward, it get stuck. Move it 1/8" back (with help of the pedal) and it is free and movable by hand. IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE TO MOVE THE HUB REARWARD BY HAND. I had to reconnect the pedal and move that back.

I know this sounds crazy and I know it has been pointed out that there is no mechanical connection but when I pull the pedal rearward, the hub frees.

Not sure what it could be but I am almost to the point where I will just try to add another spring somewhere in the linkage.

[30 Tudor]

Is the cross shaft through the bell housing free when it is disconnected from everything?
It needs to be absolutely free.
How much horizontal play does it have.
You can tap on the shaft from the top with a dowel, or brass and a hammer and make sure the bushings have clearance. Wash them out with some W-D or something,make sure that nothing has gotten packed around the shaft and locked it. Knock around on the end of the shaft, it needs to be loose.
Everything has to be loose with no binding,,,make sure the adjustments are not binding.
Something is binding, dragging, rubbing, grinding, somewhere,,, start at the pedal, and follow the yellow brick road!

You will find it!

Take a mirror and look at the mating surfaces on the apply forks,,
maybe a groove worn, a lump. A thin diamond file could level it out enough to slide over the bump if that's going on.

[30 Tudor]

Does the shaft slide sideways against the side of the bearing housing locking it up until you pull it back, like a wedge,,
Is there plenty of clearance between the side of the bearing and the forks when the petal is depressed.

Do you owe any taxes?

[1955cj5]

There is a spring you can use on the pedal. It was meant for the '28s with a different style clutch and the AA truck but it works on the Model A pedal also

https://www.brattons.com/28-aa-clutch-pedal-spring.html

There is an extra long retaining pin that goes with it...you may have to call Brattons to get the part number....

Here are a couple of pictures...it's on the end of the clutch and brake pedal shaft

I think I used a long 1/4" carriage bolt drilled for a cotter pin to retain it...

[Jeff in BC]

Is the clutch release fork properly riveted to the cross shaft?
If it is loose or the holes are worn then the spring pressure may not be enough to allow the bearing to return.

Jeff

[iamskee]

30 Tudor, when I disconnect he pedal, the cross shaft if "free" but impossible for me to move in either direction by hand. Not even a little bit.

There is a almost no horizontal play in the cross shaft.

I am not quite sure what you meant by " Does the shaft slide sideways against the side of the bearing housing locking it up until you pull it back, like a wedge,,
Is there plenty of clearance between the side of the bearing and the forks when the petal is depressed."

BUT, once the hub is pushed forward, it is stuck there until I pull the pedal back. Once back, I can move the hub maybe 3/8" as seen in the videos. But as soon as I use the pedal to push the hub/bearing forward, they do not retract as they are getting hung up on something.

Plenty of clearance between the bearing and the forks when the pedal is depressed...hmm I don't know. Are the forks viewable through the inspection plate? I didn't see them but maybe I didn't look hard enough.

All taxes paid!


Now that I think I answered all of your questions I have a few:

What shaft, and does it matter where I tap on said shaft? What am I looking to accomplish...just to shake it loose? Or am I looking to remove bearings from somewhere?

I agree with you, something is binding but I am not familiar enough with this and it is such a small area to work in making it even more difficult.

[iamskee]

1955 - THANK YOU!!! I will do some research on this spring and see if I can make it work!!

[iamskee]

Jeff in BC, I wouldn't know the status on the fork as I cannot see it. Is it viewable from the inspection plate?

[30 Tudor]

Originally Posted by iamskee

30 Tudor, when I disconnect he pedal, the cross shaft if "free" but impossible for me to move in either direction by hand. Not even a little bit.

This needs to be free.
It needs to move easily by your little pinkie, with a vannila ice cream cone in the other hand. You forgot the ice cream!
You can hit the shaft through the inspection cover, you can see it on either side of the bearing running in the bottom of the bell housing running from side to side,, door to door.
Tap straight down on it,,,, on both sides of the bearing as far out as you can reach. You can also tap the shaft from side to side,,from the bottom,,,just be careful and do not flare the end of the shaft,,use a wooden dowel to hit the short end,(passengers side) then tap it back from the other side.(drivers side)
It shouldn't move very far, watch it and listen, you can tell by the sound when you have reached the end of any slack.
Have something to attach to the arm on the drivers side and move it back and forth, up and down,(short piece of pipe,, vise grips,ect.),spray with w-d,,,, tap,,,rotate,,,tap...spray rotate,,tap,,,rotate,,,spray,,don't give up.
Just be careful and don't beat things up and leave gashes and dents everywhere, it is not necessary to tear things up.
What you are trying to do is to gain some clearance in the bushings and wash them out, they will loosen up. Some times carb cleaner helps but it is nasty and will remove paint, and it's flammable if it's any good.
You could shoot a bit inside the housing at the shaft where it goes into the housing.


Plenty of clearance between the bearing and the forks when the pedal is depressed...hmm I don't know. Are the forks viewable through the inspection plate? I didn't see them but maybe I didn't look hard enough.

The ends of the forks or the fingers are on either side of the throw out bearing,,they push the bearing forward.
Is there clearance on both sides of the forks to the bearing.

And when you slide the bearing away from the forks do the mating surfaces look smooth,,

This is probably all ok as you said the main shaft was tight.

Don't just add more springs with out fixing it,(loosen it up) though that is ok,springs are good ,you need to get the shaft freed up or it will come back and haunt you later,, and you don't want to mess with this in the middle of a nice trip in all of your clean clothes,,do we?




What shaft, and does it matter where I tap on said shaft? What am I looking to accomplish...just to shake it loose? Or am I looking to remove bearings
from somewhere?

Just shake it loose baby shake it loose!

I agree with you, something is binding but I am not familiar enough with this and it is such a small area to work in making it even more difficult.

Enjoy the adventure,,don't make me come to florida! , though I'd love too,
It snowed today, and my Tudor body is out in the cold!