Model A Ford Longivity Question

[Dick Steinkamp]

Dodge did a series of ads a couple of years ago that featured their history. Here are a few...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en0hElJ6PfY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4OpmiT24lw

Chevy did a bunch at their 100th anniversary. Here's one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK8nHn095I8

[Terry, NJ]

Oh Yeah? Our local dealer in Doylestown and Bethlehem have large pictures, posters with model A s on them on the sales floor! Who says they aren't using the Model A as a sales tool. True, they didn't roll one onto the floor (As I would have) But they did the next best thing, a poster. in 2003, I felt Ford was missing the boat by not coming up with a commemorative model. Say a 32 roadster with a modern V8, much like our rifle companies are doing almost endlessly. A big seller? No. A great wish list item? Yes! All those wonderful looks coupled with a modern engine. And from the factory, not some hot rodders backyard. I don't have the figures, but I understand that at some point, Essex was catching up to Chevy for the low priced market. I knew someone who acquired a 1920 Essex touring car, of which 12 were known to exist, 1978, his being the thirteenth. So if there were all these Essex' around where are they today? I think in the late twenties, people had had it with Ford T's. I know my father's cousin had at least two and wanted something else so he bought a chevy, a 29 and it broke axles regularly. At some point, he had a something he called a "Square wheel Dodge". That one must have rode hard to get that name. And he had a Willys Knight with a sleeve valve engine. Where is that today?
Terry

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

Ford DID harken back to its Model A days in the 1970's advertising when it paired the Model A in print ads with - all of things! - the infamous Pinto! Look at magazines from that era that ran new car advertising pages and you'll see side-by-side photos of a Model A Coupe (usually) and a NEW Pinto. Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous! The Pinto in these ads hadn't blown up yet upon being tapped from behind.
Surviving Chevies might be the second highest survivors among "antique cars", not counting the VW Bug, which I have a hard time accepting as an antique. It's just an old "modern" car to me. Besides, their manufacturing run was longer than the Model T's. The Model T and Model A must be FAR ahead of the Bowtie, however. There was a slew of Chevies made and they were Ford's closest class and price competitor. But as we all know, they didn't make the grade in terms of survivability because of the cheap materials used in their construction until the mid-1930's. Planned obsolescence, ala Alfred Sloan's philosophy. Chevies in the 20's had two undeniable survival killers in the cone clutch that quickly wore out and the soft metal rear axles that constantly broke. Owners carried spare axles under their seats because it was so common for them to break. Unlike Ford, Chevy rear axles could be swapped beside the road fairly easily. Yes, Fisher made bodies with structural wood, but so did Ford. It's funny how you hear old timers talk about how Chevies rotted from the inside and the sheet metal simply fell off or caved in, yet we don't hear such horror stories about Model T's and A's until decades after they had been made. Rotting Chevy body stories popped up even during their prime years! 'Can't explain the difference, but it's clear that even the wooden structural Model A's and T's survived in proportionately greater numbers than their #1 competitor, Chevrolet.
As far as WHY FoMoCo and dealers don't actively promote the Model T and A, say you as a consumer have an extra $15,000+ of discretionary money to spend on a car. What would Ford dealers gain by trumpeting up the virtues of a car made 85 to 100 years ago for you to buy instead of spending that same money on one of their hundreds of new cars in stock sitting on the showroom floor and in their lots? There's zero profit in it for them. It's a money thing that gains them nothing. So, of course they will not want to draw attention away from their merchandise by glorifying cars they do not reap any profits from in private sales. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Marshall

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

Dodge did a series of ads a couple of years ago that featured their history. Here are a few...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en0hElJ6PfY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4OpmiT24lw

Chevy did a bunch at their 100th anniversary. Here's one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK8nHn095I8

Exactly!!!! Where da Model A Ford??????????????? Ken Burns could make documentary just on the Model A (maybe Model B or two) and Ford would love it!!!!! But Ken Burns would rake in the money...not Ford.

[31 Model A]

BTW!!!! I've read that some Ford dealerships are starting to get in on Model A Day by having a display on their lots, moving today's models off to the side.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

BTW!!!! I've read that some Ford dealerships are starting to get in on Model A Day by having a display on their lots, moving today's models off to the side.

We tried that a couple years ago, but the (then) local Ford dealer didn't want the bother, and didn't want to give up their precious show room space. Maybe time to re-visit the situation since the dealership is under new ownership.

[H. L. Chauvin]

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Hi 31,

Many different reasons A's are still among us. Here are just a few I always "heard" about.

Model A's from 1929 until 1931 had many simple reasons to be so very popular in their day; for example:

1. The low asking price of A's was important at a depression time when there were massive soup lines, people going to bed with no food, and high unemployment rates.

2. In a short period, with so many A's on the road, non-ford inexpensive parts companies sprung up everywhere, where non-ford inexpensive A parts were affordable for the inexpensive A's.

3. Later, when WWI broke out, and cars were no longer manufactured, "Barn Finds" were a very popular life saver for family transportation, and could be made fully operational with lots of inexpensive non-ford A parts at all parts store.

4. Some citizens were so poor when WWII broke out, later, they bought inexpensive junk cars from junk yards where America witnessed a partial A resurrection.

5. Then, after WWII, with so many Depression Minded conservative citizens, many A's became the middle income family's second car, again easily maintained with non-ford inexpensive parts; and many used A's became poor family's first car.

6. Then total A Restoration using Judging Standards started to become popular. "Barn Finds" were handled differently.

Not nearly all of the reasons, but just a few "heard" reasons.

[DougVieyra]

The reason that the Ford Model A has outlived its 1920's & '30's competitors is easy to explain. Henry Ford.

Unlike all the other car manufacturers, Henry Ford owned the Ford Motor Company all by himself (well, he did spin off a small amount of stock to his wife and son). As such he could build an 'automobile for the masses'. Beside Henry Ford being a billionaire capitalist, he was first and foremost a socialist. He believed in the dignity of man and built a car for the common man. As such he was counter to the mainline philosophy of the day - $ $ $ - making money was the bottom line for all the other manufacturers. For Henry Ford, it was making the very best car at the lowest possible cost. He wanted a car of the highest quality, that could be maintained by the owner himself.

As such, every part of the 5,000 or so parts that made up the Ford Model A, was thoroughly 'vetted' for maximum value and longevity of life. One example of Henry's zealot-like fanaticism in building long-lived quality and ease of maintenance was the designing and manufacturing of the Zenith Carburetor. Anyone who has read about Henry's devotion to just this one component will quickly see why the Ford Model A has survived in such numbers and to such lasting 'drivability', that we see today.

When you own the manufacturing facility - lock, stock and barrel - entirely by yourself alone, you can (as Frank Sinatra would say) do it your way. Henry had no Board of Directors to account to. Henry had no Stock Holders to account to. Henry had only his own conscience and belief in his 'car for the masses'. He built the Model A for the people, not for the stock holders.

[Dale G.]

I researched this subject in the past about comparing chevys' to Model A's during production. Chevrolets out sold Model A's in 30,31, and 32. My father was a Chevrolet man during this period and liked them, only because the closest Ford dealer was sixty miles away from where he lived but the Chevrolet dealer was in his town. Anyway, I found that the wood in the bodies of Chevrolets was pine vs. oak and ash from Iron Mountain. Pine rots fast in the elements. So in my estimation, that is the reason there are a lot less Chevrolets around.

[Peyton]

My records indicate that Ford outsold Chevy in 1930!

[Dick Steinkamp]

"The Great Depression began, but Ford sold 4.5 million thrifty Model A's before production ceased in 1931. While other businesses disintegrated and failed, Ford was still selling a lot of cars. Ford outsold Chevy in 1929 and 1930, although Chevy was back on top from 1931 through 1933."

https://axleaddict.com/auto-industry...ury-of-Rivalry

"Then came eight ping-pong years. The lead flipped back and forth -- Chevy in 1928, Ford in 1929 and 1930, Chevy again in 1931-34 and Ford in 1935."

http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...-for-a-century

[DougVieyra]

Dale G, post 28 - "the wood in the bodies of Chevrolets was pine".
---------------------------------------------

That may very well be true. However, not-with-standing that, every one of the 8 wood-framed bodies I have owned, including a 1928 Chevrolet and a 1932 Chevrolet, had Oak in their framing - NOT pine. I have found no instance where pine was used in the making of wood framing for bodies of cars made in the 1920's and 1930's.

As making wood-framed bodies was a carry-over from the earlier days of carriage making, only hard woods were used - both in the carriages and the automobiles. Of course, as the years went by, I suspect that many a 'shade-tree mechanic' would repair the rotting and damaged oak wood with what ever wood was handy and during the hard years of the Depression, cheap. Pine is about the cheapest wood there is. And too, Pine is the easiest wood to work with.

None-the-less, even hard Oak wood can not stand up to the rigors of both weather and the twists and turns of a constantly flexing body. As cars of the '20s and '30's became obsolete they were treated with little deference, often sitting outside like the orphans they were. And for wood-bodied cars, it was a death knell.

[René W]

Originally Posted by Capt Quahog

The Model A Ford - Volkswagen Beetle comparison does not work. The scenario, historical context and most other aspects are totally different.

There is also no comparison for the high quality Model A Ford and Volkswagen beetle which was flimsy, weak and inherently defective. The VW was a post-war expediency, derived from the pre-war Porsche Nazi "People's Car". The 1936 era prototype for the recognizable 1938 VW was actually developed by the Ford Motor Car Company. On a visit by Doctor Porsche to Detroit, Henry Ford simply handed over the plans to his beetle shaped, air-cooled X-Car. The so-called X-Car project had been put on the shelf sometime before. There is no doubt that the later Volkswagen beetle was derived from the Ford X-Car.

A friend of mine is a huge beetle fan,when i told him this he almost exploded,can you proof this with pictures or documents please?
Now he is talking about "fake news"
René

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by René W

A friend of mine is a huge beetle fan,when i told him this he almost exploded,can you proof this with pictures or documents please?
Now he is talking about "fake news"
René

I think this is the part that caused your friend's near explosion:
"On a visit by Doctor Porsche to Detroit, Henry Ford simply handed over the plans to his beetle shaped, air-cooled X-Car. The so-called X-Car project had been put on the shelf sometime before. There is no doubt that the later Volkswagen beetle was derived from the Ford X-Car."
When I read that, I was disbelieving to say the least. Fake news? Maybe "Alternative facts"

[mhsprecher]

There are a couple of letters and articles in the most recent issue of the Lincoln Zephyr Club mag about Porsche seeing the John Tjaarda/Briggs LZ prototype with a rear engine at the Briggs studios. This information came from Tjaarda's daughter plus some information from his son from an article written in 2002. No direct attribution, but a lot of circumstantial evidence that the prototype LZ influenced the Beetle.

[René W]

Are there pictures of the LZ prototype?

[denis4x4]

I used to buy all of my Fords at Drew Motors in La Mesa and always enjoyed looking at the photo of Henry Ford presenting Joe Drew the franchise papers. Usually an A and T truck in the show room. Now part of the Penske Group. Posted a photo of Drew's A here several years ago and there were a dozen or more posts pointing out all of the things wrong with it! The "round house of values" building was a clone of the Ford rotunda in Detroit.

As an ad guy in the automotive aftermarket industry for 40 years, I wouldn't waste the money or space in a current Ford print or tv ad to include an A! Memories and nostalgia don't sell like some here might think.

[René W]

Originally Posted by René W

Are there pictures of the LZ prototype?

Found it

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by René W

Found it

Looks similar to a Tatra. I had read that Dr. Porsche borrowed designs from Tatra, ie rear mounted air cooled flat 4 engines.

From Wikipedia... Tatra and the conception of the Volkswagen Beetle
Both Hitler and Porsche were influenced by the Tatras. Hitler was a keen automotive enthusiast, and had ridden in Tatras during political tours of Czechoslovakia. He had also dined numerous times with Ledwinka. After one of these dinners Hitler remarked to Porsche, "This is the car for my roads". From 1933 onwards, Ledwinka and Porsche met regularly to discuss their designs, and Porsche admitted "Well, sometimes I looked over his shoulder and sometimes he looked over mine" while designing the Volkswagen. There is no doubt that the Beetle bore a striking resemblance to the Tatras, particularly the Tatra V570. The Tatra T97 of 1936 had a rear-located, rear-wheel drive, air-cooled four-cylinder boxer engine accommodating four passengers and providing luggage storage under the front bonnet and behind the rear seat. Another similarity between this Tatra and the Beetle is the central structural tunnel. Tatra launched a lawsuit, but this was stopped when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia. At the same time, Tatra was forced to stop producing the T97. The matter was re-opened after World War II and in 1965 Volkswagen paid Ringhoffer-Tatra 1,000,000 Deutsche Marks in an out of court settlement.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by René W

Found it

Could just as well say that the beetle was influenced by the Chrysler Airflow!

[mhsprecher]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Could just as well say that the beetle was influenced by the Chrysler Airflow!

True, but the Airflow was not rear-engined, like the prototype LZ was.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...40&oe=5936A708

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...48&oe=59024703