Head washers...q

[hardtimes]

Have any of you found a source of GOOD quality washers to use with alum head ? If so, I'd appreciate knowing your source and part number, if known.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I'd think Fastenal would have them.

Fleet Farm has grade 8 hardware.

[quickchange]

We machined new ones as to get a good tight fit , one problem that can arise is you might need longer studs, Derek in a hot NZ ,

[Pete]

I make my own also.
The store bought ones are sometimes too big for the spotface on the head.

[colin1928]

I have also made my own most of the time I have managed to buy them but finding the correct fit is not easy

[hardtimes]

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Originally Posted by Pete

I make my own also.
The store bought ones are sometimes too big for the spotface on the head.

Hey Pete,
Well, I can't make my own, but maybe I can 'harden' some that I have ? What would be the best practice to harden washers ?

I have tried/used several supplier provided washers and they ALL distort badly. I use washers on both cast iron and alum heads, so need a plentiful source of hard washers !
I have a batch of THICK washers that an old time high school shop teacher/machinist made for his V12 projects. They are a full 1/8" thick and fit nicely on the spotface and close around studs. Maybe harden and coat these ?

I'll also check on the references made by others, thanks guys

[Pete]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Pete,
Well, I can't make my own, but maybe I can 'harden' some that I have ? What would be the best practice to harden washers ?

I have tried/used several supplier provided washers and they ALL distort badly. I use washers on both cast iron and alum heads, so need a plentiful source of hard washers !
I have a batch of THICK washers that an old time high school shop teacher/machinist made for his V12 projects. They are a full 1/8" thick and fit nicely on the spotface and close around studs. Maybe harden and coat these ?

I'll also check on the references made by others, thanks guys

Go to ebay and type in "case hardening".

[CarlG]

I bought some really thick washers at a local Fastener Supply house (NOT Home Depot or Ace Hardware) that worked really well. They were about the same diameter as the spot face on the head, were black, and looked like they belonged. They did not distort any at all when torqued down.

I also bought some washers from ARP once, they were great as well, but were more expensive than the ones described above.

[quickchange]

Think my machine shop did them in stainless, can check.

[Keith True]

I found some from old VW head bolts.They may have come from a Rabbit diesel.Lots of aluminum headed modern cars use them.Fastenal got some for me to use on the aluminum heads on Wisconsin engines.

[Jerry in Shasta]

Got mine, ASE, for a Thomas head at Fastenal,
JB

[Pete]

Originally Posted by quickchange

Think my machine shop did them in stainless, can check.

That would be a bad scene. Stainless galls too easy, especially under heavy load.

[PC/SR]

ARP has them, can't find the part number. Get your measurements and go to their catalog of give a call. It is true that washers will raise the nut above the top of the stock stud.

[Pete]

Cut off point.

Here is something to ponder. (but not very much)
You decide to put hard washers under the head nuts.
You then decide maybe hard high nuts would be a good addition also.
Then you discover the studs are not long enough for even the stock nuts with heavy washers.
You get ARP studs or better yet make new studs from HT4340 steel.
Then you decide all of this high strength fasterner stuff still has a big weak point. The block threads.
You decide to steel plug all of the block threads.
Then when assembling all of this you see the head gasket does not fit either the head or the block properly because it was made in Chinkland.
You decide to go to a solid copper head gasket but that brings up other problems.
They need an o-ring or a set of 3 o-rings to work properly.
You find a CNC machine shop that can do the grooves and proceed.
Now, you are ready once again to assemble everything but decide
all of this would be kind of a waste with stock compression so you get an aluminum head and weld fill it, then remachine the chambers so you have 8 to 1 compression. Ready to go again but wait, as long as you have everything apart, you think, I might as well put big valves and a street cam in.
Anyway, you can see where this could end up.
At Bonneville?????
Then you would have to buy another "A" to drive around on the street.

[zzlegend]

Dam Pete. I spent 8 years at Bonneville on a Streamliner team and never met you. Or at least not to my knowledge. Sorry we did not cross paths. This is my kind of humor. Hope 2016 is a drier year for you. Mark.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by zzlegend

Dam Pete. I spent 8 years at Bonneville on a Streamliner team and never met you. Or at least not to my knowledge. Sorry we did not cross paths. This is my kind of humor. Hope 2016 is a drier year for you. Mark.

I like to maintain a low profile.
I don't go every year. Last time I ran my car was in 1956.
Last time I drove was in 2011.
I will be around the FlatCad team next time I am there.
(or with a yet to be named flathead roadster team)

[zzlegend]

If I make it there I will try and look you up. I am familiar with the FlatCad team.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by zzlegend

If I make it there I will try and look you up. I am familiar with the FlatCad team.

Ok...I probably won't be there this year because the roadster won't be ready.

[katy]

Have any of you found a source of GOOD quality washers to use with alum head ? If so, I'd appreciate knowing your source and part number, if known.

Check out your local, friendly "CAT" dealer. That's where I got good washers to go under the rear axle nuts.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Pete

Cut off point.

Here is something to ponder. (but not very much)
You decide to put hard washers under the head nuts.
You then decide maybe hard high nuts would be a good addition also.
Then you discover the studs are not long enough for even the stock nuts with heavy washers.
You get ARP studs or better yet make new studs from HT4340 steel.
Then you decide all of this high strength fasterner stuff still has a big weak point. The block threads.
You decide to steel plug all of the block threads.
Then when assembling all of this you see the head gasket does not fit either the head or the block properly because it was made in Chinkland.
You decide to go to a solid copper head gasket but that brings up other problems.
They need an o-ring or a set of 3 o-rings to work properly.
You find a CNC machine shop that can do the grooves and proceed.
Now, you are ready once again to assemble everything but decide
all of this would be kind of a waste with stock compression so you get an aluminum head and weld fill it, then remachine the chambers so you have 8 to 1 compression. Ready to go again but wait, as long as you have everything apart, you think, I might as well put big valves and a street cam in.
Anyway, you can see where this could end up.
At Bonneville?????
Then you would have to buy another "A" to drive around on the street.

Hey Pete,
Good stuff, indeed !
I should have had this tattooed to my eyeballs...long time ago, as would have saved me a ton of $, eh !! Plus it is true to boot.
I'll check out the 'case hardening' suggestion and Fastenal also.
Thanks to all for good input.
Without any intention of denigrating any supplier of the washers that I have wasted time/money buying....tip: please look into supplying some good fitting HARD metal head nut washers . As you can see there is a market and good will towards good product.