The Ford Barn

Pilotdave · 04-12-2015, 11:36 AM

Yesterday a friend and I reinstalled the engine/tranny in my Tudor and eventually reached the point where it made sense to install the fan belt. My car has a front motor mount with a single center bolt and two springs that allow the mount to float a bit. We had a very hard time getting the belt around the crank pulley. The problem seemed to be that the boss where the center bolt that attaches the motor mount to the cross member is too large. We couldn't get the belt to slide past it and into the pulley groove. Eventually we gave in and unbolted the front mount from the engine, loosened that center bolt so we could flex the mount, hoisted the engine a bit, and THEN we could get the belt in place.

I've read other posts and seen suggestions that the style of motor mount in my car may not be original.

Could someone could post a picture of an original mount?

If the motor mount is original, is there a fan belt make/part # that DOES fit? BTW, I measured the cogged belt I'm using and compared it to another I carry as a spare - the thickness (outer surface to inner surface) of the cogged belt is about 0.030 larger than that for the spare.

Thanks much,
Dave

Brian T · 04-12-2015, 01:47 PM

Hello Dave,
Mine is the same way, I do not have another belt to compare with, I am sure it is to thick, my generator is almost touching the block, did you happen to try your spare to see if it cleared?.

Pilotdave · 04-12-2015, 03:26 PM

Brian, I haven't tried the spare. I'm going to wait until the installed belt dies!

Pilotdave · 04-12-2015, 05:40 PM

I have checked with a local Model A mechanic. Also did some research in the Model A Mechanic's Handbook. I have the original style mount BUT it has a 1/4" rubber grommet above the flat steel plate and below the cross member - The Handbook shows a leather washer above the flat plate. But no grommet. That upper grommet could be interfering with the belt installation. Another clue is that I discovered that the crank pulley center is about 1/4" higher than the opening in the crank guide...likely because that grommet is lifting the front of the engine by a similar amount.

Gary WA · 04-12-2015, 06:21 PM

Hi Dave. The motor mount bolt stem could be bent a little! or thicker belt? hope all is well in MA. Gary.

ian Simpson · 04-12-2015, 10:31 PM

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I had the same problem on my 1928 Tudor which has the later model sprung front motor mount. Nothing that jacking the motor a little did not cure.

Hope I do not break the belt on the road!

Ian

Mike V. Florida · 04-12-2015, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdave

Could someone could post a picture of an original mount?

jax55 · 04-12-2015, 10:55 PM

I had the same problem and found the later style motor mount kit with the rubber puck.
Once I put it back to the original style with two springs and no rubber puck, the belt goes right on now. I see/feel no difference with the original mount in vibration or stability of the motor in comparison to the later version. FWIW

Pilotdave · 04-13-2015, 06:31 AM

Mike V, thanks for the photo! This mount looks just like that.

jax55, I pulled the front engine mount out last night and removed the grommets/pucks. I need to find the right spring for the mounting bolt, and then I suspect that my issues will go away.

I'll report back.

jax55 · 04-13-2015, 10:28 AM

PilotDave, forgot to mention that with the puck in there my crank pulley nut did not align with the crank hole either,,, the hand crank would not enter the nut at all.
After I changed to the original mount, everything lines up perfectly.
I just started over with a new motor mount kit with new springs and hardware.

CarlG · 04-13-2015, 11:45 AM

I had the same problems with my rig. I found that I could jack the engine ever so slightly, even without removing anything from the front motor mount, that the belt would slip on easily. I think I had to jack it up only a half inch or so. Just put a 2x4 under the pan I use whatever jack you carry and that should do it.

Now to fix the problem permanently, I got one of Bill Stipe's one piece pulley that is slightly undersize. That gives plenty of room for the belt, as well as slowing down the water pump slightly so that it doesn't tend to cavitate quite so easily at highway speeds. (ie: 50 mph)

BILL WILLIAMSON · 04-13-2015, 04:06 PM

Lots of Model A fan belts are hard to get on the crank pulley. I just poke it in there & crank it through. The cogged belts seem to crank through EASIER.
Gorilla Bill W.

Pilotdave · 04-13-2015, 08:13 PM

With the yoke restored to stock parts, the front of the engine is now lower and reasonably well aligned with the crank guide. I may yet want to add a thin shim under the guide to raise it up a bit.

Also, the fan belt now easily slides onto the crank pulley.

I'm not sure what led the PO to install the rubber grommets, but it seems clear that Henry's design deserved to be left alone.

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments.

Dave

Dodge · 04-13-2015, 11:39 PM

I also think the replacement pulleys are a little larger now and causing part of the problem. The belt on all three cars I have put belts on lately have been a very tight fit the generator is right up against the block. And to compound it recently I put an aluminum replacement fan blade on the car. There was no way a new belt would fit I had to put a used one on it.

04-12-2015, 11:36 AM	#1
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! Yesterday a friend and I reinstalled the engine/tranny in my Tudor and eventually reached the point where it made sense to install the fan belt. My car has a front motor mount with a single center bolt and two springs that allow the mount to float a bit. We had a very hard time getting the belt around the crank pulley. The problem seemed to be that the boss where the center bolt that attaches the motor mount to the cross member is too large. We couldn't get the belt to slide past it and into the pulley groove. Eventually we gave in and unbolted the front mount from the engine, loosened that center bolt so we could flex the mount, hoisted the engine a bit, and THEN we could get the belt in place. I've read other posts and seen suggestions that the style of motor mount in my car may not be original. Could someone could post a picture of an original mount? If the motor mount is original, is there a fan belt make/part # that DOES fit? BTW, I measured the cogged belt I'm using and compared it to another I carry as a spare - the thickness (outer surface to inner surface) of the cogged belt is about 0.030 larger than that for the spare. Thanks much, Dave

04-12-2015, 01:47 PM	#2
Brian T Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Diego,Ca Posts: 1,377	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! Hello Dave, Mine is the same way, I do not have another belt to compare with, I am sure it is to thick, my generator is almost touching the block, did you happen to try your spare to see if it cleared?. __________________ Nothing can be made foolproof, ---- fools are ingenious bastards.

04-12-2015, 03:26 PM	#3
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! Brian, I haven't tried the spare. I'm going to wait until the installed belt dies!

04-12-2015, 05:40 PM	#4
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! I have checked with a local Model A mechanic. Also did some research in the Model A Mechanic's Handbook. I have the original style mount BUT it has a 1/4" rubber grommet above the flat steel plate and below the cross member - The Handbook shows a leather washer above the flat plate. But no grommet. That upper grommet could be interfering with the belt installation. Another clue is that I discovered that the crank pulley center is about 1/4" higher than the opening in the crank guide...likely because that grommet is lifting the front of the engine by a similar amount.

04-12-2015, 10:31 PM	#6
ian Simpson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 709	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I had the same problem on my 1928 Tudor which has the later model sprung front motor mount. Nothing that jacking the motor a little did not cure. Hope I do not break the belt on the road! Ian

04-12-2015, 10:55 PM	#8
jax55 Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Santa Barbara, Ca Posts: 329	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! I had the same problem and found the later style motor mount kit with the rubber puck. Once I put it back to the original style with two springs and no rubber puck, the belt goes right on now. I see/feel no difference with the original mount in vibration or stability of the motor in comparison to the later version. FWIW

04-13-2015, 06:31 AM	#9
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! Mike V, thanks for the photo! This mount looks just like that. jax55, I pulled the front engine mount out last night and removed the grommets/pucks. I need to find the right spring for the mounting bolt, and then I suspect that my issues will go away. I'll report back.

04-13-2015, 10:28 AM	#10
jax55 Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Santa Barbara, Ca Posts: 329	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! PilotDave, forgot to mention that with the puck in there my crank pulley nut did not align with the crank hole either,,, the hand crank would not enter the nut at all. After I changed to the original mount, everything lines up perfectly. I just started over with a new motor mount kit with new springs and hardware.

04-13-2015, 11:45 AM	#11
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! I had the same problems with my rig. I found that I could jack the engine ever so slightly, even without removing anything from the front motor mount, that the belt would slip on easily. I think I had to jack it up only a half inch or so. Just put a 2x4 under the pan I use whatever jack you carry and that should do it. Now to fix the problem permanently, I got one of Bill Stipe's one piece pulley that is slightly undersize. That gives plenty of room for the belt, as well as slowing down the water pump slightly so that it doesn't tend to cavitate quite so easily at highway speeds. (ie: 50 mph) __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club Last edited by CarlG; 04-13-2015 at 04:28 PM.

04-13-2015, 04:06 PM	#12
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! Lots of Model A fan belts are hard to get on the crank pulley. I just poke it in there & crank it through. The cogged belts seem to crank through EASIER. Gorilla Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

04-13-2015, 08:13 PM	#13
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! With the yoke restored to stock parts, the front of the engine is now lower and reasonably well aligned with the crank guide. I may yet want to add a thin shim under the guide to raise it up a bit. Also, the fan belt now easily slides onto the crank pulley. I'm not sure what led the PO to install the rubber grommets, but it seems clear that Henry's design deserved to be left alone. Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. Dave

04-13-2015, 11:39 PM	#14
Dodge Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Sonoma, CA. Posts: 1,496	Re: Fan Belt of Front Motor Mount? Picture Needed! I also think the replacement pulleys are a little larger now and causing part of the problem. The belt on all three cars I have put belts on lately have been a very tight fit the generator is right up against the block. And to compound it recently I put an aluminum replacement fan blade on the car. There was no way a new belt would fit I had to put a used one on it.