A Brake Doktor on Ebay

[Kevin in NJ]

For those in the market here is the tool to do the brakes on the A.

No it is not mine, but the pictures are nice so people know what one looks like.

Centers and makes the correct diameter all in one shot. No need to worry about making links the exact same length or if the tracks are perfectly positioned.

This one has the adapter to do the front and it appears to have the rear adapter, would need to know the measurements to be sure. One end slides over the rear axle bearing race.

Brake Doktor

[Mitch//pa]

thanks for posting now lets watch that baby climb $$$$$
the one that guesses the price closest wins a prize

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

If I may, let me pose this question. Let's consider this in a two-fold manner;
1st) as a hobbyist, ...and
2nd) in the view of a commercial shop such as mine or others here who rebuild brakes frequently.

.....A) Is this a practical tool for a hobbyist to own who does 1 brake job a year?

.....B) Is this a tool something that should be in a vintage repair shop such as mine?



Kevin, you posted a different one that was not as 'tooled' as this one awhile back and I never "pulled the trigger" on that one because I was trying to decide whether I needed it, -or whether it would be another toy for Show & Tell.

For a hobbyist shop that maybe only arcs 8 shoes a year, this is going to be an expensive unit to justify purchasing/storing IMHO.

For a commercial shop where we average 12-15 brake jobs annually, I am not sure this unit would be any type of a time-saver for us ...however, maybe it would?? I presently own two different types of Brake Arcing Machines (a Bear 1421 and an Ammco) but they are fixed units that are mounted on stands. Our units pretty much stay to the same size from shoe to shoe since the majority of what we arc is just Model-A shoes. So for us, we use the caliper to measure the inside diameter of the drum and then clamp the shoe in and make a couple of passes which is all it generally takes. Because of the dust they generate, we generally try to do it near the door to keep the dust down. Not sure how that is handled on the eBay unit. Also, the idea of a spinning disc next to someone's painted fender might be a little nerve-wrecking too.

So on this eBay unit, what is everyone's thoughts on what would be the benefit of using this unit over a regular bench mounted arcing machine? Is this a unit I should be bidding on??



(Mitch, I am going to guess $610.00 + freight. )

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

So on this eBay unit, what is everyone's thoughts on what would be the benefit of using this unit over a regular bench mounted arcing machine? Is this a unit I should be bidding on??

Great for a club as a club falls in between a hobbyist and a commercial enterprise.

[Kurt in NJ]

Will the bench mounted machine center the shoes to the car? ,althouth the A is not a fixed anchor system it is close because of the track the pins rest on

I have used mine (actuall we have 2) on 30 Chrysler,53 Citroen, Mercedes 190sl, and 35 Ford big truck along with the A, and I have used the bench top units ---for fixed anchor shoes it centers perfect, with a bench unit it will make the arc fit the drum, but not always center the shoe, the cast alum shoes of the Mercedes don't fit most bench machines without homemade adapters the only car I couldn't fit it to was a BMW Isetta--but those shoes don't fit a bench top machine either

the spinning disc it pretty well shielded, although the precautions used around any moving spinning tool need to be used, as to the dust--the bench top units make that too, I have used a large box, hooked the exhaust extraction hose to it, and the box pretty much protects the fender too

[Roger V]

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Curious if the linings are ground to the center of the axle housing race, do they not end-up off center to the drums after mounting due either to wear on the bottom of the axle housing race or even just normal slop? If so then bench arcing/arching may end up being as close.

[Mitch//pa]

my guess is $1,200 plus shipping

the prize is a Mitch's Auto t-shirt shipped

[Bill in NJ]

Lets see a picture of the shirt !!

[ronn]

Mitch,
are you providing the prize and what is it?

a little over 500. is my guess.

[Tom Elliott]

I'll say $775 plus shipping just for a chance at the t-shirt.

[Y-Blockhead]

Mitch has shirts...

[Mitch//pa]

[ctlikon0712]

I pulled the trigger on one from Ebay two years ago and am glad that I did. I don't know if it is the one that you decided not to bid for Brent, but Kevin was nice enough to provide me with a print of the adapter/collet that I needed for the Model A spindle. I have since purchased the owners manual and have a 1940's Barrett Brake Service manual that I have put to good use. To me as a hobbyist who likes collecting vintage tools of the era it was worth buying for more than one reason.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by ronn

Mitch,
are you providing the prize and what is it?

a little over 500. is my guess.

need a more exact price

[oldwoodsman]

Nice shirt. My favorite color.
I'll say $675.00 + shipping

[chl]

in the interest of fair play entries must not be received less than 2 seconds before the auction closes.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

need a more exact price

Hey Mitch, if I find a Buy-It-Now auction on eBay, --then guess the selling price, can I win one of your T-shirts too??

.

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Damn!!!!! How come you didn't include one of those with the buy 1 gallon get 10 gallon free coupon of 15W40 Rotella????

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Hey Mitch, if I find a Buy-It-Now auction on eBay, --then guess the selling price, can I win one of your T-shirts too??

.

someones always looking for a competitive edge ;;;

[Charles Coe]

I'll say $975 + shipping.

[larrys40]

Having done many "A" brake jobs ( I will be starting my 2nd this month today) I can attest that having the right tools is indespensible. Brent, I have not used one of these, and like you, use a shoe arc machine made by barrett.
They do the job nicely... Mine has a vac bag on it that catches the dust or you can put a vaccuum on it.

I think these were the economy quickie tool of the day... to keep from disassembling the brakes and get them reasonably true quickly in my opinion.
The larger better equipment costs more in the day. I can see where these may have their place, downsides it will get dust everywhere on your backing plates and brakes. Yes, you can blow it off...I'm not sure these will do any better job than a well fit/arced shoe and properly aligned on the backing plate.

I use KRW centering gauges and have the current reproduced units available at my disposal in our club tool stash. Honestly I use the KRW all the time and use feeler gauges to make sure my contact is uniform. They all take some seating break in anyway.. and a couple of rounds of dialing in before they are where they need to be for stopping on a dime.

I can't see where this tool at a $$400 + value is worth it to me... as I would still do my comprehensive restoration process and arcing to get them where they need to be. It wouldn't necessarily shortcut anything in my book.

I can also see where there could be adjustment/setup issues, hub/drum issues that could affect the overall result. You might be sanding off a shoe cockeyed when in the end the shoe may need replacing/correcting.
If this sold for a reasonable amount it might be worth it for a resource for that once in a while thing, Otherwise I can't see where proper restoration and fitting of the shoes to the drum that needs to be done anyway won't do the job.

Just my 2-cents worth.

Larry Shepard

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Kurt in NJ,

In your response #5 above ....... something just appears very interesting ...... in the lower left of the attached photo ...... what's a guess as to the year that the weathered wood box was made?

[ronn]

Mitch,
532. plus shipping

size is a 2x

[Cape Codder]

I will have to say $685. Size 2X

[31 Model A]

It will be $895.00 and include a second one FREE!!!! Just pay for shipping and handling and you'll have to hurry, supplies are limited to the first 1000 customers.

[Kurt in NJ]

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Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Hi Kurt in NJ,

In your response #5 above ....... something just appears very interesting ...... in the lower left of the attached photo ...... what's a guess as to the year that the weathered wood box was made?

I don't know when they were made, they are homemade ramps, looked old when they showed up at work, the guy that brought them hasn't worked there for 8 years

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Kurt,

Thanks. Always interesting to see creative vintage homemade items.

[Tom Wesenberg]

$547.09 plus shipping.

[Marco Tahtaras]

If nobody participating here gets into the game then it should only be about $390 even though it's been awhile since the last one.

[Kurt in NJ]

I know that one sold in the past ---$250 buy it now, very complete even with original sandpaper(sold within 3 hours of listing), and that another one that only had the taper adapter sold at Hershey for 10$ needing a cord and bearings

[Hoogah]

Originally Posted by larrys40

. . . Just my 2-cents worth. . . .

That's the lowest estimate so far!

Put me down for $703 + shipping, and whatever USA size fits a 5'7'' bloke weighing in at 165 lb in his birthday suit.

[MikeK]

$408

[RUNNERBUN]

I'll have a go at $777 + ship (Seven is my favorite number hasn't brought me any luck so far)

[midgetracer]

I'D say $325.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by RUNNERBUN

I'll have a go at $777 + ship (Seven is my favorite number hasn't brought me any luck so far)

7 did not bring you any luck this time either
we only ship to the US & Canada

[RUNNERBUN]

Awhhhh, you spoilsport. I'll settle for a small consolation prize. Me thinks you are getting even with me for vandalising your cars.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by RUNNERBUN

Awhhhh, you spoilsport. I'll settle for a small consolation prize. Me thinks you are getting even with me for vandalising your cars.

HAAHAA Runner just messin

glad you have a good sense of humor also

[Kevin in NJ]

Originally Posted by larrys40

I think these were the economy quickie tool of the day... to keep from disassembling the brakes and get them reasonably true quickly in my opinion.
The larger better equipment costs more in the day. I can see where these may have their place, downsides it will get dust everywhere on your backing plates and brakes. Yes, you can blow it off...I'm not sure these will do any better job than a well fit/arced shoe and properly aligned on the backing plate.

Just the opposite is true. The Barret line of tools were always the top of the line tools for getting the job done. In the case of the Doktor, its use was outmoded by technology. Consider the evolution of the brake systems by the mid 30's. With the advent of the floating shoes the Brake Doktor became less useful rapidly. The floating shoes do not work with the tool so they needed to go to the bench tool.

The brake doktor is the best tool for doing any anchored brake shoe system. There were a lot of braking systems early on that were based on fixed shoes and the Brake Doktor was built to properly set up the shoes. While most of us on this board are mostly familiar with the Model A's and later cars it is the earlier odd brand cars that had the need. By the mid 30's even the Ford brakes needed the bench grinder over the Brake Doktor. For the A the Brake Doktor is the premium tool for the job.

When I first learned of the Brake Doktor years ago I had a problem. There were no pictures of it on the internet. I asked a lot of people for help and finally I was sent some pictures. The person did high end antique cars. The pictures were of his doing a Stuz Bearcat 3 shoe single piston brake system. He was very clear the only tool for properly rebuilding many early brake systems was the Brake Doktor.

The Brake Doktor very accurately makes the shoes the correct size and diameter. It is done on the car and centred to the axle. This means you are not spending a bunch of time trying to get close to centring the shoes done on the bench machine. So it is a real labor saving device that gives a better final result.

Of course, the issue of the rears will be that the shoes are centered to the true center of the axle. Some people have fairly worn races causing the drum to move up and rotate a little. This is another issue of not properly restoring your system so you will have to be smart enough to correct the issue as you do your build.

[Keith True]

The Brake Dokter doesn't seem to give a false center on the rear axle with a worn race.The wear is always on the bottom,(except for some worn beyond belief).When you clamp that adapter on there look into the end of it with a light.That round adapter is hitting tightly against 3/4 of that race,and you will see a gap at the bottom that is the wear.At that point you will have the shoes true to the axle center,BUT,the hub will be riding up in the worn part.I've mostly used them on other old cars with adjustable anchor pivots.I get them close as I can by using an old Barrett centering tool,then run the Brake Dokter around them.For some reason I've always found that 30's-40's Chrysler products seem to have odd humps in the shoes.Sometimes it looks as if I've taken a lot off,but when I measure the shoe material I find I've only taken off 5 or 10 thousandths.

[holdover]

$576.50

I have used the bench model grinder to arc the brakes to the drum and feel they do a very good job. For the difference that this grinder makes it would not justify the cost if I already had the bench model. With that being said if I collected antique tools then it would be a different story.

[TDO]

$730.00

[62pan]

$435.00

[Ak29]

I can use a new shirt. $475 + shipping.

[steve hackel]

It will sell for what I can afford to pay for it - assuming I bid on it, and if I win the auction - - soooo, I wear a 'large' !

[colin1928]

I am in just to be different I say No Bids No Sale
Colin

[Mitch//pa]

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we are sweetening the deal with a key ring also

[Rex_A_Lott]

I'd be interested if that was the "Buy it now" price, just because its an interesting bit of history and the way things were done...Hey, I might even make use of it. Just not interested in playing the auction game.
$353.50

[Keith True]

That's a tool that I never saw bring too much on ebay.It may be the worry about shipping,I don't know.I would not be surprised to see no bids on it.About 10 years ago I bought six of these units new,they came from a closed jobbers warehouse in Manchester N.H.They were probably 45 years old at the time.The auctioneer knows me and asked what they were.When he put them up they were to be bid on,and when the hammer fell the winner could have all he wanted for the winning price each,and any left were offered to anybody that wanted one.I was the only bidder and took them all.I advertised them for a very high price,$600.each,but that was delivered anywhere in the lower 48.I got a hundred people telling me I was insane,but when I advertised them in Hemmings I sold every one without a peep.I think that new was the deciding factor.

[AL in NY]

Can anyone tell me if all the accessories are there to do Model A brakes? Also, does anyone have a manual or some kind of instruction sheet?

[larrys40]

So Mitch since I threw in my 2 cents worth and it is now off do I win the shirt?

Thanks!
Larry

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by colin1928

I am in just to be different I say No Bids No Sale
Colin

Looks like this is the winner.
If it would have ran to the end, it would have had at least one bid. I know of one gentleman that had some sort of automatic last minute bid thing in, but didnt want to jump in too early, only to see the price get run up.
My guess is somebody local offered him cash, he was able to sell it and not have to fool with shipping.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I wonder if someone threw in a bid just to start it, could he still have sold it locally?

Probably yes, as I've seen things pulled with phoney excuses listed for the reason.

[ctvpa]

It says "The item has been withdrawn due to an error in the listing" But it is not relisted.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by ctvpa

It says "The item has been withdrawn due to an error in the listing" But it is not relisted.

Yep, that's the most common excuse.
I suspect it was sold to someone asking for a quick private sale.

[Mitch//pa]

maybe colin1928 had them stop the auction to purchase it on the side ,, and at the same time win the prizes LOL

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Yep, that's the most common excuse.
I suspect it was sold to someone asking for a quick private sale.

Tom, It is the owners right to do just that, even if it had bids on it.. It is still Yours..

[Marco Tahtaras]

My biggest curiosity is if the new owner (after receiving it) will share the news here. With all the discussion I'd be truly surprised if it wasn't somebody here!

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with Marco, and am wondering what the selling price was.

[KR500]

I purchased my first Brake Doktor at a Chrysler dealer auction in 1974. There were Chrysler dealers going out of business rather quickly then. I seemed to remember going to about 7 auctions around the state I reside in and Wisconsin. Barrett as stated was the Cadillac of brake tools in the '40s when Harry Barrett partnered with Stiles-Herman( who also marketed the fender rollers you see get unbelievable $ on EBay) and got the Barrett name accepted as the standard of the industry. The U.S. military used Barrett tools in their motor pools. One year at Hershey I purchased 3 Barrett bonding tools for about $20.00. They were wrapped in a foil wrapper and sprayed with cosmoline. Barrett was eventually bought I believe in 1960 by John Bean and then FMC ( Food Machinery Company) then purchased by Snap-On. Bear's marketed brake lathes are Barrett designed. The Brake Doktor when considered for purchase should have the steel and then later aluminum adapter which fits the rear Ford A axle hub and also the later Lincoln hub when reversed. Many advertised Brake Doktors are missing the micrometer unit. One went on Ebay for $160.00. When using my Doktor I set up a vacuum cleaner to grab the dust and a respirator is highly recommended. I can supply a parts list or instruction manual for the units should you desire one.

[Keith True]

I've had this one for many years.I did trade the cast Ford adapter to someone on here that wanted an original.They made me an aluminum one,did a beautiful job,and I think it is much better than the original.The old fellow I worked for in high school told me that the cast one was a lot more delicate than it looks.If it rolled off the bench and landed just right it would gain another split down the side.I have a couple more adapters not in the picture,they did not come with that machine but were available as extras.When I had a bunch of new ones years ago I was going to keep one a peddle this one,then I figured why bother? This one is like new and only runs minutes at a time.

[ronn]

It may not have sold-sometimes sellers are reluctant to let an item sell for their opening bid, expecting much higher bidding to have taken place.

[AL in NY]

ronn: I contacted the seller and he told me he sold it locally.

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I wonder if someone threw in a bid just to start it, could he still have sold it locally?

Probably yes, as I've seen things pulled with phoney excuses listed for the reason.

Yes Tom we all have and I rarely bid on their items again. If they can do it once they can do it again. I consider them to be Scammers ! Play by their rules or they take the gat and ball and go home ?
Wayne

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

ronn: I contacted the seller and he told me he sold it locally.

Told me the same. I am glad he sold it before the auction ended!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

ronn: I contacted the seller and he told me he sold it locally.

Isn't that against ebay policy and what gets sellers banned?

I have an antique key cutter that I tried twice to sell on ebay, but ebay pulled it after a couple days listing, calling it a burglary tool, and against ebay's policy. Only a fool would consider an antique key cutter a burglary tool.

I didn't try selling it a third time, because someone emailed me stating that I could get banned after 3 tries.

[KR500]

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Tom, EBay has a rule against selling Key cutters and guns. But check out all the code books sold on there. If its listed as an antique car tool you may not be bothered. I have seen guys sell all the carriages, #14 wheels, code books, and spare keys, and claim they can't sell cutter. But thru a private message the seller agrees to include it. Go figure

[ronn]

when listing on ebay, you can include a disclaimer that states you have it for sale locally and may at your discretion end the listing early. Many who list do this, to provide an out,
should they get a better offer or have a change of heart.
Nothing is written in stone with ebay and there are always ways to move around their "requirements".
Many of the bylaws of ebay are good, and some not so good............ just depends how you view things in life.