Model A Engine Oil Filter

[Ron/IA]

I am planning on build a touring engine with as many bells and whistles as I can put on it.

One item is an engine oil filter. I know there are full-flow and partial-flow systems. I don't understand why one would want a partial-flow system, but maybe I am missing something (but if you know an advantage regarding the partial-flow system, please let me know). So, right now I am leaning towards a flow-full system.

I have no experience with Model A engine oil filters; nor do I know any A'ers that use one. With that, I would like to hear from A'ers that are using an oil filter on their A engine, and what their experiences have been (good, bad, what works, what doesn't work, and any tips).

Thanks,

[PC/SR]

I use the MIke's Afordable, with the 90* adapter. Love it.

[Ron/IA]

PC/SR - I knew of the 90-degree adapter, but was on able to find one and thought they might not be available anymore. I have sense found one on Mac's web site.

Are there any other vendors that sell this adapter?

Thanks,

[boomerusmc]

Snyder's has a full flow kit and the 90 degree adapter:

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/se...ilter&x=81&y=5

I see the full flow kit on Bratton's as well (couldn't find the adapter):

http://www.brattons.com/prodtype.asp...SearchCriteria=

[CarlG]

The 90 degree adapter is available from Ford, or most aftermarket racing suppliers like Summit, Jeggs, etc. Ford part # is M-6880-A50

[Ron/IA]

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I have thought of another question. Using the full-flow system; would the filter now put pressure on the oil pump, and said pressure would be higher?

Has anyone put on an oil pressure gauge while using an oil filter system, and if so, what pressure did you see?

Thanks,

[Vic in E-TN]

Ron:
I have filters on all of my engines and have had them for years. When cold the pressure build up can be above the 10 psi on my gage with heavier oil. After the engine warms up I see 2-3 psi.
The oil pump is a positive displacement pump that is capable of putting out a lot of pressure - much more than you need. There is enough pressure available to put oil through all of the passages that are available and are not plugged by sludge.
Vic

[Vic in E-TN]

Ron:
My thoughts on "partial flow" oil filters. If you figure that partial flow means 50 percent then you can run some math to show you that eventually all of the oil gets filtered eventually. It just takes some time.
There is a cost difference and a time difference in the installation. I am partial to the full flow filters.
Vic

[Chris Haynes]

For years I ran a Frantz Oil Cleaner on my stock '30 AA engine. The oil was always the color of honey and clean. It is a by pass system that keep oil clean. If your oil is clean you don't need a full flow filter.
I will certainly be running one on my new engine too.
http://www.frantzfilters.com/

[Vic in E-TN]

Chris:
I have heard about the Frantz filters. The price scares me - it is more that twice the Mike's or Snyder's price.
There are several ways to measure filtration efficiency, etc. One is absolute and the other one is kind of an average.
They don't say what their 2 micron means.
The tolerances in Model A engines are not the same as in a modern engine. A model a can tolerate particles much larger than 2 microns. This is not to say that the better the filter then the better off you are. I would buy a good filter and one of the regular vendor's filter assembly. I would look into the adaptor also. I believe that you need a shorter filter if you have the engine pans. The horizontal filter makes a small mess when you change it.
Vic

[johnneilson]

As with everything on the web, opinions will vary and usually without any data to support them.

Years ago I read some articles about the auto industry, specifically regarding the expected life of engines. The short story was that since the Full Flow Filtration systems became mainstream, MTBF and the re-build interval on average became much longer.

IMHO, I will not put a motor together that does not have a full pressure system and full filter oiling. Yes, this does require modification, yes, it does cost money to make a sound installation.

On another note, I use Fram filters only to indicate that a motor does not have oil in it. That is the only use I have found they are good for.

Merry Christmas, hope Santa visits and the reindeer don't poop on the roof.

[PC/SR]

My experience is the same as Vics. Pegged at 10 psi when cold, 2-3 when warm. The only restriction needed to be overcome is the filter resistance and that gets easier as the oil thins out.

[Chris Haynes]

The difference is what you are looking at are oil filters, or oil strainers. The Frantz is an Oil Cleaner. They are not something new. I have been using them since the early 1960's.

[ericr]

have any of you guys ever cut open a used filter, out of curiousity, to see what debris it removed from the oil?

[Farmer j]

We cut the filter apart every time we change oil in my plane. So far all I've found is small carbon particles. If any kind of metal is found then I've got a big problem.

[gwhite]

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

For years I ran a Frantz Oil Cleaner on my stock '30 AA engine. The oil was always the color of honey and clean. It is a by pass system that keep oil clean. If your oil is clean you don't need a full flow filter.
I will certainly be running one on my new engine too.
http://www.frantzfilters.com/

How did you plumb your Frantz?

[b.j.]

how often is oil changed? 2 microns would be about the size of one particle of baby powder. inbedability (sp). of babbit bearings??
i would imagine the time/miles on most model a engines oil changes is a lot less than what is recommended. we are all guilty of "busy work,

brings back the old saying "it's mine and i can wash it as long as i want to"

[JohnLaVoy]

This is the one we run on the sedan. It is the Ford 90 degree adapter and the Bratton's oil filter kit. Works very nice!

[Ron/IA]

Everyone - Thank you very much for the info and included photos.

Very helpful,

[Dick Deegan]

Yup, mine is the same with a full flow filter.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

For years I ran a Frantz Oil Cleaner on my stock '30 AA engine. The oil was always the color of honey and clean. It is a by pass system that keep oil clean. If your oil is clean you don't need a full flow filter.
I will certainly be running one on my new engine too.
http://www.frantzfilters.com/

don't you put a roll of toilet paper for the filter element?

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by Brendan

don't you put a roll of toilet paper for the filter element?

Yes. Can you imagine how fine that oil is cleaned after passing through it.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by JohnLaVoy

This is the one we run on the sedan. It is the Ford 90 degree adapter and the Bratton's oil filter kit. Works very nice!

This is the same arrangement I use.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by ericr

have any of you guys ever cut open a used filter, out of curiousity, to see what debris it removed from the oil?

I have cut it open several times. Yes, the one time I cut it open and there were little shinny flakes in there told me that Babbitt was loose and about to go. Suspect confirmed. Rods needed replacing.

[emf]

I searched for oil filter info earlier today and could not find what I was looking for, and since this has been brought up here, I'll go ahead and ask my question here (if no one minds). Does the oil filter adapter that replaces the timing gear cover work well on a Model B engine? I know the original design did not use an oil filter, and I usually don't subscribe to adding filters to older engines, but I may want to add one to my A with a B. Anyone got an opinion on the best filter for the B engine? What am I saying.... I'm sure everyone has an opinion...

Frank

[JohnLaVoy]

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The valve cover on a Model B is different from a Model A.

[emf]

Yes, I know it is. Can the filter that replaces the cover for the cam gear (timing gear) be used and would it be effective in filtering the oil????

[briphaeton]

Originally Posted by emf

Yes, I know it is. Can the filter that replaces the cover for the cam gear (timing gear) be used and would it be effective in filtering the oil????

Nobody here gets Secrets of Speed Magazine? I'm wondering what was the last issue mailed?

[briphaeton]

Sorry, The Kenz cam cover Filter can be easily modified to be full flow, described in a Secrets of Speed issue. I high recommend Secrets, Brierley's Book and F.A.S.T.
Has anyone got their October 2014 Secrets of Speed issue yet? Thanks

[bettlesr]

I have the "Taylor" filter on mine. I modified it for full pressure oiling. I used an early Ford van with a 6 cylinder engine right angle adapter to make the filter vertical. The early adapters would also move the filter away from the block while the newer ones sold now move it towards and hitting the block. Old style P/N 957E-6884-A.
And yes, I have the October 2014 issue of Speed magazine.

[Purdy Swoft]

I don't like the look of the valve cover filter, it would be in the way of my dual updraft carbs. Babbit bearings do well without a filter. If I used insert bearings, I suppose that a partial flow system would be better than no filter. Insert bearings really need a filter .

[Chris Haynes]

I have been asked how I installed my Frantz Oil Cleaner. My mount was really simple. I cut a piece of thick wall steel tubing to fit between the mounting tabs of the Frantz. Then I removed the top bolt on the side cover of the timing gear cover on the engine. Got a longer bolt to go through the Frantz mounts and into the engine. With it mounted like this you can swivel it for any clearance issues you may find.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by bettlesr

Old style P/N 957E-6884-A.

I think that number should be C5TE-6884-A.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by bettlesr

I have the "Taylor" filter on mine. I modified it for full pressure oiling. I used an early Ford van with a 6 cylinder engine right angle adapter to make the filter vertical. The early adapters would also move the filter away from the block while the newer ones sold now move it towards and hitting the block.

Do you know if you can use the engine pans with this set up? I notice you don't have the engine pans installed. Thanks.

[blgitn]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Do you know if you can use the engine pans with this set up? I notice you don't have the engine pans installed. Thanks.

I'd like to know too: I always run engine pans.

R/ Roger.

[bettlesr]

I may have to cut a hole in the engine pan. I have to weld the tabs back on where it mounts to the engine. Right side broke off when I had float-a-motor mounts on it. I still have the left pan on.

[loowiloowi]

Originally Posted by bettlesr

I have the "Taylor" filter on mine. I modified it for full pressure oiling. I used an early Ford van with a 6 cylinder engine right angle adapter to make the filter vertical. The early adapters would also move the filter away from the block while the newer ones sold now move it towards and hitting the block. Old style P/N 957E-6884-A.
And yes, I have the October 2014 issue of Speed magazine.

So all this talk about full flow and part flow is great but exactly how do you change the original model A design so that it does not continue to flow oil up into the lifter chamber? I can only assume that the October 14 Speed mag tells how to do this. Can someone re write this for those who do not have access to the Speed magazine?
On another note the discussion of filters and the TP cleansing device use are all about micron size. A short bit of research on water filtration will give you the ideas and concepts of micron sizes and how they might relate to engine oil cleanliness.

[sphanna]

Ron:
I think those who think eventually all the oil will get filtered with a non full flow filter are wrong. Here is why. If for example 50% of oil is filtered with each circuit of oil, then 50% of oil is not filtered. The next circuit will leave 50% unfiltered also and so on each time. It is the same as when you want to go from chicago to Pittsburg and you go 1/2 way. Next day you go 1/2 of remaining way & stop. Then same again and again. You will get close but you will never get 100% there. I have the one that Mikes Afordable makes & i notice my oil stays clover honey color until changed at at least 1000 miles or more. It is a full flow. You do not need the 90* adapter as a little though and care will preclude any mess during the filter change.

[Ron/IA]

Steve - Very good analogy, I remember the same story using a different example.

Nice to know that not using a 90-degree adapter doesn't create as big a mess as one might think with the filter vertical. I am guessing when the engine is not running, that some or most of the oil drains from the filter.

Thanks,

[callcoy]

If you are interested in a Franz filter you might luck out at a swap meet, so far I have bagged 4 and for cheap. I have been using them in my air compressor lines, have a regular separator at the compressor then a Franz in line. My air is dry as a bone, when done using one for painting, I take the filter apart and let it dry out, haven't replaced a TP roll yet.