Harbor Freight Tools vs. China Bashing

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by ursus

Why not try the recycle stores. There is one nearby that I check out weekly. Folks that are clearing out granpa's house dump off an amazing range of tools that the new generation cannot even begin to recognize. Sockets of all sizes at 25 cents to 50 cents each, of all kinds of provenance. I fish through the bins for the older domestic stuff and it is amazing what can be found. I have picked all kinds of original Ford and K.R Wilson tools. An unused set of Model A valve seat grinders for 75 cents - why not? I have found stuff of a level of quality that is no longer being produced anywhere. The recycle store only holds thing for a month or so before before sending it off to the scrappers. I wonder what China does with Ford chrome-vanadium steel these days?

I need to move to Oregon. No stores like that around here. I rubber neck all garage sales that have a hint of tools and check pawn shops from time to time.

[Tom Wesenberg]

You buy Harbor Fright tools for your friends and neighbors that like to borrow tools and forget to return them. And they are good to take to the junk yard to remove parts. If you forget some there, you aren't out much money.

I also made my living as a mechanic and bought quality American made tools.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by ursus

Why not try the recycle stores. There is one nearby that I check out weekly. Folks that are clearing out granpa's house dump off an amazing range of tools that the new generation cannot even begin to recognize. Sockets of all sizes at 25 cents to 50 cents each, of all kinds of provenance. I fish through the bins for the older domestic stuff and it is amazing what can be found. I have picked all kinds of original Ford and K.R Wilson tools. An unused set of Model A valve seat grinders for 75 cents - why not? I have found stuff of a level of quality that is no longer being produced anywhere. The recycle store only holds thing for a month or so before before sending it off to the scrappers. I wonder what China does with Ford chrome-vanadium steel these days?

around me alot of the recycle stores want dang near the same price as new for name brand stuff. A few times they wanted more for very well used beatup dewalt grinders than they were new!

I will stick to my HF stuff. same no ask warranty as craftsman, works just as good if not better. Have broken several craftsman sockets but HF stuff keeps on going. Have put their deep well 1/2" drive impact sockets thru hell and back with no issues besides some of the labels as to what size they are worn off.

The only electric thing ive killed from harbor freight was that cheapo $10 angle grinder. Granted i was using WAY to long for way to thick of metal (cuttong the front crossmember out of my AA) and ended up melting the power switch... Been dropped numerous times over the years but still worked great. Replaced it with the same $10 wonder grinder.

At work nearly all of my tools are harbor freight. i do machine maintenance and use them daily. Nothings really given me grief, i have broken a few screwdriver tips off of flatheads using them as pry bars (my own fault) but the warranty still covered it.

Just because something says Made in USA doesn't mean a single part was made in usa - may have been put together here but every component came from mexico, china, or india....Or clothes - made in usa - shirt may have been stitched here but the material came from overseas.

if you want quality tools buy German made stuff.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Harbor Freight is a blessing for PO' FOLKS, like me!!! At least I can have a fairly wide array of equipment to work with in my retirement! I AIN'T RICH!!---So QUIT yo' PISSING!!
Bill W.

[colin1928]

I have thou my families business deal with china enough to know they are some of the sharpest business people going round
they do not make crap and send it around the world hoping it might sell
they have the world come to them where quality and quantity and cost are offered in many combinations
some of their quality stuff is among the best in the world
some of their crap is among the cheapest in the world
you get what you ask for

[Synchro909]

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The way I figure this talk about Chinese crap is there is no reason the Chinese can't make a good quality product, in fact they often do. If a US (or OZ or any other) company goes to a Chinese manufacturer with designs and specifications for their widgets and ties up a deal for them to make them, there is no reason the Chinese widget will be any worse than the local one. Same design, same tolerances, same materials etc but less cost. I see no problem with the local company putting their name on such a product but lookout for the apparently same product out of the same manufacturer under "Happy Dragon Smiling" brand.
Look same, not same.

[dave in australia]

My tools come from all over the world. I have Australian, American, Italian, Chinese, Swedish, English, German etc. I look at value for money, what the tool is used for, and how many times I'll use it. I use cheap spanners if I'm going to modify them for a particular job like bending them to a particular shape. If I want longevity because it is a high use item, I'll look for better to the best quality. Unfortunately, over here in Australia, snap-on might as well be made from high grade unobtanium with the price they charge. I can get tools of the same quality but at a cheaper price.

[wrndln]

I think a lot of the problem is like Synchro909 indicated. The Chinese "could" make very good quality products, but many or most American companies that operate in China demand "cheap", so the crap will sell well. I also agree, that most Americans want cheap items including me. However, it seems to me that American companies could require a little bit better quality at not much more cost, but what do I know. I am sure most of us oldies remember Japan. They were known in the 50's and 60's for producing JUNK. They decided to go for quality and look what happened. Now they probably still make some junk, but mostly known for high quality items, like cameras, autos, semiconductors, etc. Maybe some manufacturing will come back to the USA, but I wonder if the quality will ever again be like it was back in the day - I doubt it.
Rusty Nelson

[leo]

This post is for Joe K regarding his lawn mower issues. Yes it's true the new mowers have no adjustment or choke capabilities. However if you always treat your gas with one of the "preservers" like Stable or SeaFoam you will fare much better. No, the mowers don't always start on the first or second pull like when their new but at least they do start. Today's formulation of gas when it becomes stale is a major part of the problem.

[BlueSunoco]

[QUOTE=Joe K;966867

Reports on the Craftsman Mower on the Internet reveal that the EPA has gotten to Briggs & Stratton the motor manufacturer and the carburetors are no longer consumer adjustable. In fact, you don't adjust the carb at all - you buy a new one. Filled with a self adjusting choke and small passages, the cleanest of the new alcohol laden gas kills the carb in short order. It's a design made to die. But it satisfies the EPA.

Gotta love business/government collusion. Sure death to free enterprise or what?

Joe K[/QUOTE]


I've found this same thing happening with chain saws. They tell me any small gasoline motor today.

Pathetic.

[marc hildebrant]

I bought a chainsaw last year...it's adjustable.

While I don't believe that the EPA is perfect, the reason that the EPA was formed (under Nixon) was due to the pollution caused by industry and the effects on people's health.

Marc

[marc hildebrant]

With regards to "junk"....many consumer products made in the past in the USA were made as cheap as they could to meet a price point for selling.

Radio's in the 1930's had many poor construction methods used, yet when WW2 occurred, the quality went way, way up from the same companies.

It's all about the consumer and what he\she will pay and the quality they want.

Marc

[ModAfan]

I have many Harbor Freight tools - hand tools, electric tools and pneumatic tools - and I have never had a problem with any one of them. And the prices can't be beat. I am delighted that there is an HF store about three miles away.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

With regards to "junk"....many consumer products made in the past in the USA were made as cheap as they could to meet a price point for selling.

Radio's in the 1930's had many poor construction methods used, yet when WW2 occurred, the quality went way, way up from the same companies.

It's all about the consumer and what he\she will pay and the quality they want.

Marc

Competition can kill products too. Think of the first Charmglow Grills - VERY high quality, very long lived, very well made - also rather expensive while Charmglow held the patent on their device.

After passing of patent protection EVERY maker of grills and lawn equipment started making grills in the Charmglow pattern. They all killed each other in cost cutting and cheapening the product to the point where one was lucky to get 2 years out of a grill before the rust took it over and/or it became non-functional.

Now, with the rise of consumer awareness, the quality is beginning to come back in names like Webber and Char-broil. But - so is the price.

But the grills are still available from WalMart at like $29.95 - should you choose a low cost solution.



Joe K

[FL&WVMIKE]

China can and does make quality items. They make one of the best tractors, on the market.
The problem is, us Americans, who sell Chinese made goods, specify, to the Chinese manufactors, what price point these goods have to be made. Corners are cut, to meet these price points. A strict Quality Control would increase the price, also.
MIKE (mikeburch)

[Barry B./ Ma.]

I broke some teeth off my new HF tap even using the proper tap drill for 5/16-18 in 1/8 cold rolled steel. You have to be gentle with those taps.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by ericr

A recent post to a Newbie had repeated recommendations for Harbor Freight tools, which I understand are mainly China-made. But bashing of presumably-China-made Model "A" parts is constant in the Barn. It seems inconsistent to me...am I missing something?

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

...The parts that will be used and seen for many years in you A, should be of good quality that will last as long as the car.

I see a big big difference.

I believe this thread, altho interesting, has strayed a long ways from the original question...

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by ericr

A recent post to a Newbie had repeated recommendations for Harbor Freight tools, which I understand are mainly China-made. But bashing of presumably-China-made Model "A" parts is constant in the Barn. It seems inconsistent to me...am I missing something?

Ha ha ...funny ! Here's a riddle..how are they the same .... answer, both 'throw away' after one use

[hardtimes]

Hey Joe,
Regarding craftsman tools. In decades past, I used to buy up what craftsman wrenches / tools when seen at sales...cheap. The company made decent sockets/wrenches and I used them hard ! NO more. It has gotten so bad, that the other day, I was looking for a socket of certain size. After locating the NEW craftsman socket with STAMPED SIZE ON IT, I crawled back under to do work..no easy task !
After multiple attempts to fit the socket failed, I crawled back out and made a comparison with an old same size snap on socket. Would anyone believe that the darn socket size is not what is stamped on it !!
A sad situation ,indeed ! I did not know that craftsman stuff is now made in china. If true, that explains two things...the second thing being that I will NEVER buy craftsman again

[BlueSunoco]

Originally Posted by forever4

This once great country has become the world poster child for dumbing down and lowering standards, performance, and expectations, as clearly evidenced by many other posts and views on this thread.

Too many people in the US don't care about quality, only cost. I am thankful Henry Ford decided to build Model A's instead of Yugo's, and that our fore bearers had the intelligence and desire to understand the difference.

Thank you. Clearly one of the most enlightened posts that has been on here for ages. And, 'Too many people in the US don't care about quality, only cost.' I lived and worked in Germany for quite some time, and those people SUPPORT EACH OTHER and their country and do strive for quality products. I was very impressed with the German people and greatly admired them.

We are doomed unless something changes and quick, but I really feel it has gone too far we turned the corner a long time ago. And it is our own fault.