mechanical vs. hydraulic brake systems

[ericr]

surely the subject of brakes creates a lot of attention herein, and one often sees a statement that properly-adjusted mechanicals are as good as hydraulics.

without appearing as a wise-ass, I'd like to know the basis for that statement. Are there owners who have switched to hydraulics and wish to affirm the claim? Has anyone switched back?

If going hydraulics means changing other components, I'm not sure that makes it a level playing field. and as is often observed, many of our restorations are not up to original specs. But nor is there anyone left alive who drove the cars when new that can render a comparison opinion about our restorations.

[Patrick L.]

Really ?
Proper mechanical brakes do work well. They'll over power the tires and slide all 4.
Early hydraulic brakes left a lot to be desired.

Maybe I'm just a fuddy duddy, but, I like the mechanical brakes and generators.

I did recently install rear LEDs cuz some dumb ass rear ended me a little while ago, but, I don't like the way they look.

[bykerlad]

I think new cars still have mechanical brakes,that's why they stop so well

[Joe31]

I drive a 32 with 30,000 miles on it. Mechanical brakes work good for me. Have had many cars with 39-48 juice brakes, can't say there any better.

[34Fordtk]

I am going to try the Dead stop kit in mine, but if you only have a 4.5" tire you are only going to stop it just so fast.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by ericr

surely the subject of brakes creates a lot of attention herein, and one often sees a statement that properly-adjusted mechanicals are as good as hydraulics.

without appearing as a wise-ass, I'd like to know the basis for that statement. Are there owners who have switched to hydraulics and wish to affirm the claim? Has anyone switched back?

If going hydraulics means changing other components, I'm not sure that makes it a level playing field. and as is often observed, many of our restorations are not up to original specs. But nor is there anyone left alive who drove the cars when new that can render a comparison opinion about our restorations.

Actually, I have switched more than several back to mechanical brakes. I would venture a guesstimate it has been more than a dozen, ...but probably less than two dozen. One individual that I recall did so at the expense of a "Vee-ed" from bumper where he hit the corner of a building with his faulty hydraulic brakes. Another person's car had a real butcher job for mechanically activating the Master Cylinder, and it seemingly took two men and a boy to push the pedal hard enough to slide the tires. It was a no brainer why he changed back. Many of these owners do not like the leaky mess nor how the fluid evaporates over the winter when the hydraulics are parked.

As for many not being around when they were new, ...I am under the impression you have never been around a low-mileage original Model-A, --nor have you really experienced a truly restored Model-A braking system. I would like to personally invite you to my shop sometime where I will let you drive a properly restored Model-A that has a stock mechanical braking system. I think you will find it is much akin to your first kiss. Everyone could describe it to you how great it would be, however until you actually experienced it first-hand, you just didn't understand.

One other point that really needs to be made. Many here tend to look down upon 'Purists' but some of those purists' mentality go much further than you might understand. Henry Ford was WAY more advanced than what many might believe, and he was very exacting in how he ran his business. Not only did he require an engineered drawing of each and every component, ...he also assigned a M-Spec (a Material Specification) to each component. When we restore a Model-A, it is not just about disassembling something, replacing the broken parts and then putting a pretty paint job on a part. That is nothing more than repairing a used car, --which many Model-As are just that!! It is returning each and every component back within the tolerances that Henry & his engineers specified when the vehicles were manufactured. By a 'Restorer' doing this level of craftsmanship, we can replicate exactly how a Model-A was when it was new. Therefore it does not require someone who was alive when the vehicle was new, it just requires effort now.

[mshmodela]

Interesting debate, I wish to keep my A as original to the design as possible... To each Model A owner their own...

[CarlG]

I plan on keeping my mechanical brakes and alternator, just like Henry intended.

[bart78]

This is one of those discussions like motor oil. Everyone has a opinion.

[Kevin in NJ]

Originally Posted by bart78

This is one of those discussions like motor oil. Everyone has a opinion.

The problem is when one is confronted with verifiable facts that should change an opinion into knowledge and one continues to hold the questionable opinion.

[machine girl]

Stock brakes are very good when set up right, the problem your always having to adjust them. and not many know how to set them up. my hyd brakes don't stop any better than stock but they are way more positive and I only adjust about once a year. also the ones having problems with hyd brakes, again not set up right. have installed many of both. so I feel with our 25-30 years exp. (verifiable fact) keven nj ) its a push.

[farmeracb]

I am prolly gonna get hell for being a new guy, but I just feel like throwing out my opinion too sometimes I am in my early thirties, so not by any means have I spent tens of thousands of hours in the seat of these things. I can say however, I have a 47 Ford pickup with factory juice brakes, and a 30 A with factory mechanical brakes. Both have been what I feel properly "restored" back to factory, and my opinion is this. The A stops well, each and every time, any time I need it to. But it does require routine maintenance and adjustment. The truck does not require any more effort to make the same stop, but the feel is not the same. There is some lag time to the pedal. The truck however does not require as frequent of maintenance. By design, a hydraulic brake system is relatively self adjusting.

There it is!,only my two cents!
Adam

[farmeracb]

Yeah.... what machine girl said... she just don't take as long to think =)

[machine girl]

If you have lag time in your hyd brakes , you have air in the lines or a leak

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by machine girl

Stock brakes are very good when set up right, the problem your always having to adjust them. and not many know how to set them up. my hyd brakes don't stop any better than stock but they are way more positive and I only adjust about once a year. also the ones having problems with hyd brakes, again not set up right. have installed many of both. so I feel with our 25-30 years exp. (verifiable fact) keven nj ) its a push.

X-2
SET UP RIGHT...now write that on the 'board' a thousand times !
I've driven both systems...set up wrong and / or not kept maintained properly ! I've also driven both systems in NEW condition. Hydraulic brakes came into being on much HEAVIER cars than Model As..fact. Why did Ford change from mech to hyd..fact. Sure you can 'lock up and slide' 4x4" patches of rubber with mechanicals, but what does sliding have to do with stopping ..in time ? FACT..you better be darn good at taking care of AND constantly adjusting mechanicals, or in short order, you ain't going to lock up and slide all four equally, on a continued basis.
Whereas, hyd brakes maybe take one good adjustment and preventative maintenance a year. And, if I remember correctly, the hydraulics have more square inches of brake pads on heavier cars to do the stopping.
Now, any fool can let any type brake system go to hell in short order by lack of necessary PM and knowledge. Hey, that's what keeps some shops making money,eh !

[ericr]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Actually, I have switched more than several back to mechanical brakes. I would venture a guesstimate it has been more than a dozen, ...but probably less than two dozen. One individual that I recall did so at the expense of a "Vee-ed" from bumper where he hit the corner of a building with his faulty hydraulic brakes. Another person's car had a real butcher job for mechanically activating the Master Cylinder, and it seemingly took two men and a boy to push the pedal hard enough to slide the tires. It was a no brainer why he changed back. Many of these owners do not like the leaky mess nor how the fluid evaporates over the winter when the hydraulics are parked.

As for many not being around when they were new, ...I am under the impression you have never been around a low-mileage original Model-A, --nor have you really experienced a truly restored Model-A braking system. I would like to personally invite you to my shop sometime where I will let you drive a properly restored Model-A that has a stock mechanical braking system. I think you will find it is much akin to your first kiss. Everyone could describe it to you how great it would be, however until you actually experienced it first-hand, you just didn't understand.

One other point that really needs to be made. Many here tend to look down upon 'Purists' but some of those purists' mentality go much further than you might understand. Henry Ford was WAY more advanced than what many might believe, and he was very exacting in how he ran his business. Not only did he require an engineered drawing of each and every component, ...he also assigned a M-Spec (a Material Specification) to each component. When we restore a Model-A, it is not just about disassembling something, replacing the broken parts and then putting a pretty paint job on a part. That is nothing more than repairing a used car, --which many Model-As are just that!! It is returning each and every component back within the tolerances that Henry & his engineers specified when the vehicles were manufactured. By a 'Restorer' doing this level of craftsmanship, we can replicate exactly how a Model-A was when it was new. Therefore it does not require someone who was alive when the vehicle was new, it just requires effort now.

LOL well don't be shocked if I show up for a test-drive someday.

I'll say this though: I was around when we all scrounged though swap meets trying to find steel drums that had not been turned down to paper-thinness. If you tried to remove the old studs yourself and bent the hub, there were no new ones available. no tool was readily available to check centering of the shoes. no new front brake actuating levers were available, just used ones with wear on them.

Had the authorities known of our poor braking systems back then, they would have banned us from the road.

[machine girl]

again, brent is long winded and off topic. brent get back to the question drop all the fluffy stuff. no need to use the form to
advertise your shop. that's what your doing when you say come to my shop.

[ursus]

Some of us came into the hobby at a time when decent mechanicals were difficult to attain, mainly because the only available parts were worn out old stuff and crappy Argentine repops. The hydraulic conversion made sense then, especially because decent new and used parts were easy to find. Now, the situation is reversed and the V8 guys are bemoaning the crappy offshore master cylinders and brake cylinders and the Model-A guys have ready access to quality repop parts.

I still have my 1970's era hydraulic conversion and am comfortable with it, but I have my eyes out for a decent set of mechanicals when the next rodder puts an original running gear on the market.

[machine girl]

That's still a big problem, stock brake parts or hyd brake parts, china junk is about all we can get, NOS stuff is out there but$$ . the shop rebuilding brake clys, and master clys with stainless sleaves will be the way to go. stainless wont rust and very hard.

[Mike V. Florida]

I would leave whatever was on the car. Rebuilt systems are cheaper then swapping. I have driven A's with both style brakes and the wheels stop turning when I put my foot down.

Save your money for gas and drive the car.