Engine losses power as I pull out of driveway

[drumyn29]

I took it out last week and gave my friend the time of his 10 year old life, then, it all started.

It runs great in the garage but as soon as I pull out on the street that Damn car dies out on me!

I have changed condensor, tightened battery cables, sanded area where ground strap bolts to transmission, ran a rubber mount off of bellhousing for main power wire, checked points, checked timing, sprayed carb cleaner to find vacuum leak, inspected ignition switch and wires near. Before this drama I did change out the fan blade and waterpump. I have the headlight wires disconnected with tape covering the ends but I can''t see how that would be an issue as the light switch isn't on.

OOPS, LOSES POWER ,NOT LOSSES POWER!!

This car is about to earn a for sale sign!!!

[drumyn29]

One more thing, it now backfires.

[Tom Wesenberg]

My friend has a 29 Tudor for sale for what I think is a bit low. It was restored about 19 years ago.

[JBill]

It sounds like it could be fuel starvation. Have you checked fuel flow with the gas line disconnected from the carburetor?

[drumyn29]

One thing that I forgot to add is that I unscrewed jet and inspected and sprayed air hose in carb as well.

[drumyn29]

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Originally Posted by JBill

It sounds like it could be fuel starvation. Have you checked fuel flow with the gas line disconnected from the carburetor?

I have not, yet.

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by JBill

It sounds like it could be fuel starvation. Have you checked fuel flow with the gas line disconnected from the carburetor?

I agree.

Confirm gas cap is venting. Try backing out of driveway without gas cap on.

Remove fuel line from carb (gas valve off), put a can below the line and open the valve. Fuel must flow out in a clear full stream. If not, fuel filter or screen is clogged, inlet to valve is clogged with trash (we see it all the time).

Is it backfiring out of carb inlet? That's a lean condition (short of fuel). Try manually partially choking it to force enough fuel to flow to keep it running.

Backfiring out of tailpipe (exhaust) is the opposite, excess fuel and/or incomplete combustion (poor ignition, fouled plugs, etc.) dumping unburnt fuel into exhaust system. It burns in exhaust system as explosions.

Hope this helps.

[Patrick L.]

How does it quit ? Does it stumble or just up and die instantly ?
When it quits, immediately get out and check for spark. Set a plug wire 1/4" from a plug or ground and crank the engine. There should be a good spark. If not, you know where to look. If there is a spark, then you know to look at the fuel system.
Make sure the gas cap is venting. Remove the fuel line from carburetor. Make sure line does not extent more than a 1/16-1/8" beyond ferrule. Open shut off and run fuel into a container to check for good solid flow.
If all this checks out, then the carburetor probably needs to be cleaned.

[drumyn29]

It dies out like someone shut the key off or the gas stopped. As soon as it dies I start it right up and it runs a bit rough then dies out again, and so on…..

I took fuel filter and cleaned, no blockage anywhere in the fuel line. I'll try the gas cap idea.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by drumyn29

It dies out like someone shut the key off or the gas stopped. As soon as it dies I start it right up and it runs a bit rough then dies out again, and so on…..

I took fuel filter and cleaned, no blockage anywhere in the fuel line. I'll try the gas cap idea.

Sure sounds like fuel starvation.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Sounds so normal to me for an 80+ year old Model A.

Without "seeing" what is happening & without "hearing" what is happening I would not hesitate a split second at the very least to try this:

1. First, please forget about the "For Sale" sign; your Model A does not want to change owners ........... yet ....... don't make him/her cry.

2. If everything checks out electrically, please forget about electrical issues; your Model A is talking to you; but, we never learn his/her language ....... try thinking like a veterinarian who can cure without using our languages derived from either Greek or Latin.

3. If you've thoroughly cleaned the carburetor several times, please quit cleaning it -- no silly comment offered here.

4. At this point, all above fuel starvation comments appear correct; however, you have already disconnected the fuel line & gas flowed, but guess what ...... in medical terms, maybe your bladder did not empty -- a catheter may have worked, but parts vendors don't offer them -- the blockage is commonly way up & above in the bladder or the fuel tank.

5. Save the $5.00 or so for the "For Sale" sign, please go on line & under fuel tanks please order a "fuel tank filter screen". When it comes in, insert it in the tank where it can help to prevent future blockages all the way down through the urinary tract, even in the carburetor jets.

6. I could have written this more seriously, but appears we always listen & remember jokes & humor; but, always forget & never "listen" to more serious things like our Civics Classes.

Model A's stalling on today's highways are dangerous & life threatening -- plus you sound like a great guy spending Model A time out with a 10 year old.

Sincerely hope this helps.

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Sounds so normal to me for an 80+ year old Model A.

Without "seeing" what is happening & without "hearing" what is happening I would not hesitate a split second at the very least to try this:

1. First, please forget about the "For Sale" sign; your Model A does not want to change owners ........... yet ....... don't make him/her cry.

2. If everything checks out electrically, please forget about electrical issues; your Model A is talking to you; but, we never learn his/her language ....... try thinking like a veterinarian who can cure without using our languages derived from either Greek or Latin.

3. If you've thoroughly cleaned the carburetor several times, please quit cleaning it -- no silly comment offered here.

4. At this point, all above fuel starvation comments appear correct; however, you have already disconnected the fuel line & gas flowed, but guess what ...... in medical terms, maybe your bladder did not empty -- a catheter may have worked, but parts vendors don't offer them -- the blockage is commonly way up & above in the bladder or the fuel tank.

5. Save the $5.00 or so for the "For Sale" sign, please go on line & under fuel tanks please order a "fuel tank filter screen". When it comes in, insert it in the tank where it can help to prevent future blockages all the way down through the urinary tract, even in the carburetor jets.

6. I could have written this more seriously, but appears we always listen & remember jokes & humor; but, always forget & never "listen" to more serious things like our Civics Classes.

Model A's stalling on today's highways are dangerous & life threatening -- plus you sound like a great guy spending Model A time out with a 10 year old.

Sincerely hope this helps.

Thank you I'll inspect tank and buy a screen.

I have one thing to add. I took the gas cap off and the car didn't change. BUT, it seems like as it's dying out at full advance if I retard, it seems to regain somewhat of an even idle.

Theere is a lot of rust in the tank, which is why I installed a clear glass fuel filter right under the tank inside the cab.

[modelAtony]

Originally Posted by drumyn29

Thank you I'll inspect tank and buy a screen.

I have one thing to add. I took the gas cap off and the car didn't change. BUT, it seems like as it's dying out at full advance if I retard, it seems to regain a somewhat of an even idle.

Theere is a lot of rust in the tank, which is why I installed a clear glass fuel filter right under the tank inside the cab.

Your clear fuel filter under the tank inside cab , could be your problem. This wouldn't happen to be a modern fuel filter would it ? If it's modern filter this will probally be the problem. REMOVE IT. have fun modelAtony tony white.

[Fred K-OR]

Most comments above seem to say you have fuel problem. And they are likely correct because I am no expert. But I had a similar problem with my coupe a year or so ago. It would just stop dead like you turned the key off. I would coast to the side of the road, put the spark lever up and try to start it. It would start right up and would run for quite awhile.

So I changed out the coil and since then have had not problems. But after changing the coil and a little later, I thought it would be good to check the distributor. I found the wire under the top plate that connects the points to the bottom plate was rather frayed. So I fixed that.

Thus the point of all these comments is that I did not verify that it was the coil, which it could have been or if it was the wire in the distributor. The reason I keep thinking about the wire in the distributor is that when the rig stopped, and I pulled to the side of the road, I put the spark lever up. This would move the top plate around and also move the wire under it. Thus it could have been the wire shorting out or getting a disconnection.

I know this does not give you a direct course of action but may give you a couple of other things to check.

[Mitch//pa]

it could be either a fuel or spark malfunction. instead of guessing lets do a diagnosis to see which it is. after many responses you mention about rust in the tank and an add on filter inside the cab. anything else we should know? when its not starting lets hold the coil wire and see if we get some spark.

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by Fred K-OR

Most comments above seem to say you have fuel problem. And they are likely correct because I am no expert. But I had a similar problem with my coupe a year or so ago. It would just stop dead like you turned the key off. I would coast to the side of the road, put the spark lever up and try to start it. It would start right up and would run for quite awhile.

So I changed out the coil and since then have had not problems. But after changing the coil and a little later, I thought it would be good to check the distributor. I found the wire under the top plate that connects the points to the bottom plate was rather frayed. So I fixed that.

Thus the point of all these comments is that I did not verify that it was the coil, which it could have been or if it was the wire in the distributor. The reason I keep thinking about the wire in the distributor is that when the rig stopped, and I pulled to the side of the road, I put the spark lever up. This would move the top plate around and also move the wire under it. Thus it could have been the wire shorting out or getting a disconnection.

I know this does not give you a direct course of action but may give you a couple of other things to check.

One of the first things I checked was the dist. wire I triple checked it and made sure it was tight and right. It idles fine at high and low rpm in the garage, it's only when I take it for a spin is when it acts up.

[noboD]

How did it drive the last time? How long ago? How old is the gas?

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by noboD

How did it drive the last time? How long ago? How old is the gas?

Brand new 5 gallons of gas, I drove it last week.

[jmeckel]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

it could be either a fuel or spark malfunction. instead of guessing lets do a diagnosis to see which it is. after many responses you mention about rust in the tank and an add on filter inside the cab. anything else we should know? when its not starting lets hold the coil wire and see if we get some spark.

Yes Mitch I agree. Time to start, in a logical approach, shotgun approach only increases frustration and spends $'s with poor results. The trouble shooting needs to start when the issue is occurring, not after the fact when all is working. A quick check of the "strap" on the points to make sure when it gets hot it does not touch the case of the distributor. I for one spent a lot of time tracking this issue down on my A. New points are not all made as they used to be.

On the testing spark front, here is the best tool I ever spent $5.00 on, use it on old tractors, old stationary engines, and old cars. It helps to see if there is spark under load, when running. And you can test the spark by yourself.

Home

| Inline Ignition Spark Checker
Pittsburgh Automotive - item#69014
Check your ignition system with this ignition spark tester



Only: $5.99
Sale: $4.99

[drumyn29]

I watched the glass fuel filter and the gas stayed the same as it died. As soon as it started dying out I gave it full throttle and a KABOOM came out of the tail pipe. I did notice the generator seems a bit noisy but I don't see how that could affect engine because even if the generator failed the battery would keep it running until battery drained(I think).

Maybe I should re visit the points again.

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by jmeckel

Yes Mitch I agree. Time to start, in a logical approach, shotgun approach only increases frustration and spends $'s with poor results. The trouble shooting needs to start when the issue is occurring, not after the fact when all is working. A quick check of the "strap" on the points to make sure when it gets hot it does not touch the case of the distributor. I for one spent a lot of time tracking this issue down on my A. New points are not all made as they used to be.

On the testing spark front, here is the best tool I ever spent $5.00 on, use it on old tractors, old stationary engines, and old cars. It helps to see if there is spark under load, when running. And you can test the spark by yourself.

Home

| Inline Ignition Spark Checker
Pittsburgh Automotive - item#69014
Check your ignition system with this ignition spark tester



Only: $5.99
Sale: $4.99

Now thats a cool and useful tool!!!

[Fred K-OR]

In my olden days, if I remember correctly (which could be questionable) when I would turn off the key (power) with it running fairly fast and then turn it on again, it would let out quite a bang. So don't know for sure but it would seem like a electrical problem of some sort. Coil, bad key switch, loose connection somewhere, etc.. Have you looked at your amp meter when this problem happened? What does it do?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Generator problems too?

What's the ammeter read when driving?

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by jmeckel

Yes Mitch I agree. Time to start, in a logical approach, shotgun approach only increases frustration and spends $'s with poor results. The trouble shooting needs to start when the issue is occurring, not after the fact when all is working. A quick check of the "strap" on the points to make sure when it gets hot it does not touch the case of the distributor. I for one spent a lot of time tracking this issue down on my A. New points are not all made as they used to be.

On the testing spark front, here is the best tool I ever spent $5.00 on, use it on old tractors, old stationary engines, and old cars. It helps to see if there is spark under load, when running. And you can test the spark by yourself.

Home

| Inline Ignition Spark Checker
Pittsburgh Automotive - item#69014
Check your ignition system with this ignition spark tester



Only: $5.99
Sale: $4.99

yep we say it over and over like a broken record. DIAGNOSE. i posted many times about the use of a spark tester

i believe HF sells that same spark tester everyone should have one. try it out when the car is running good to see what a good spark intensity and pattern looks like in the bulb. then when trouble occurs the neon bulb would be dimmer or it could have an intermittent pulsing pattern.

[Mitch//pa]

at work we use these snap on testers i have a half dozen in my tool box in case i want to put one to each cylinder at the same time versus from the coil. or on a modern COP car

[H. L. Chauvin]

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1. With a partially clogged inlet to a fuel line, & very "slow" flow of fuel, many Model A engines can idle like this all day long for hours with no problem.

2. Remember that if you had an electrical problem, during this long idling/running period a heated bad condenser and/or a heated bad coil could get hot enough to cause the engine to stop because of faulty electrical problems.

3. In your case, with your reporting that the engine kills only upon acceleration, (out of the driveway & on the street), what happens is that the increased engine revolutions are "demanding" far more fuel than the partially clogged fuel line can adequately supply with this increased fuel demand.

4. One sees this same Model A problem reported & happening often; however, to try to remember same, we all can relate to an old man siting in a rocking chair for (6) hours on the front porch of an old folks home doing just fine.

5. Then he sees a nice looking 20 year old female track runner jogging by at a fast pace out on the street, so he gets up & tries to follow in the rapid footsteps of this real good looking young jogger.

6. Even though the old guys lungs supplied enough air in the rocking chair all day long, when he takes off running, after 30 feet or so out in the street, he collapses face first.

7. After a few minutes, he gets up & walks back to his rocking chair & everything works fine -- but, also like the old vintage Model A engine, in a few minutes, he won't remember the fast street chase either.

8. Hope this helps to explain some of the problems with supply & demand accompanied with acceleration.

[Mitch//pa]

H.L. #3 on previous posting
engine bogs/ dies on accel
try giving it a hit of carb cleaner while accel and during the bog out. if it picks up its fuel related

[jmeckel]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

at work we use these snap on testers i have a half dozen in my tool box in case i want to put one to each cylinder at the same time versus from the coil. or on a modern COP car

That is a much better one, did not know snap on had them at that cost, I will be adding one to my tools the next time I see a snap on truck.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by jmeckel

That is a much better one, did not know snap on had them at that cost, I will be adding one to my tools the next time I see a snap on truck.

i have used both styles, the snap on light is clear ///easier to read compared to the HF style which is more frosted

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

H.L. #3 on previous posting
engine bogs/ dies on accel
try giving it a hit of carb cleaner while accel and during the bog out. if it picks up its fuel related

Not a bad idea!

I tried looking in the tank for a chunk of something blocking but couldn't see the drain.

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

1. With a partially clogged inlet to a fuel line, & very "slow" flow of fuel, many Model A engines can idle like this all day long for hours with no problem.

2. Remember that if you had an electrical problem, during this long idling/running period a heated bad condenser and/or a heated bad coil could get hot enough to cause the engine to stop because of faulty electrical problems.

3. In your case, with your reporting that the engine kills only upon acceleration, (out of the driveway & on the street), what happens is that the increased engine revolutions are "demanding" far more fuel than the partially clogged fuel line can adequately supply with this increased fuel demand.

4. One sees this same Model A problem reported & happening often; however, to try to remember same, we all can relate to an old man siting in a rocking chair for (6) hours on the front porch of an old folks home doing just fine.

5. Then he sees a nice looking 20 year old female track runner jogging by at a fast pace out on the street, so he gets up & tries to follow in the rapid footsteps of this real good looking young jogger.

6. Even though the old guys lungs supplied enough air in the rocking chair all day long, when he takes off running, after 30 feet or so out in the street, he collapses face first.

7. After a few minutes, he gets up & walks back to his rocking chair & everything works fine -- but, also like the old vintage Model A engine, in a few minutes, he won't remember the fast street chase either.

8. Hope this helps to explain some of the problems with supply & demand accompanied with acceleration.

Ok, so here's the question.

I watched the clear fuel filter and it doesn't change as it dies, AND I checked for blockage throughout the fuel line going to carb and it's great, is it possible that it ISN'T blocked in the tank?

[drumyn29]

I just did my half assed test!

I took spark plug wire off the cap, started the car and watched the spark jump to the terminal. While it started to die out I noticed that the spark disappeared completely.

Point gap?

[jmeckel]

Check the point gap, check the soft copper strap that follows the spring strap on the points theses can short and be very intermittent. Check the wire between the upper and lower plate, make sure it is not shorting to the case. If all is good, check your coil, when they heat up they can fail.

[Mitch//pa]

hahaaah an ignition system diagnosis

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by drumyn29

I just did my half assed test!

I took spark plug wire off the cap, started the car and watched the spark jump to the terminal. While it started to die out I noticed that the spark disappeared completely.

Point gap?

I have had new condensers dead right out of the package.

Don't assume new equals good.

When it acts like this, it is often the condenser.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi 29,

Two (2) Very Important Specific Key Questions:

1. When your engine dies, what is the minimum number of seconds or minutes do you have to wait before the engine will easily re-start again?

2. Now that it is appearing to die in the driveway, (as opposed to just dying out on the street), once your engine is successfully re-started, & supposedly with the engine running fine, what is the maximum number of seconds or minutes the engine runs well before it either begins to misfire or dies in the "driveway"?

[jmeckel]

Further note:
Only make one change or adjustment at a time, or you will never know if or what it was that caused the issue.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by drumyn29

... I watched the glass fuel filter and the gas stayed the same as it died...

If the partial clog was upstream of the filter you could expect the level to go down but if the partial clog is downstream of the filter the glass would stay full even if the carburetor was going empty.

I'm going to get me one of those spark testers tomorrow. Big Labor day Sale and I have a fistful of FREE coupons I have to use up (course I can only use one a day, haha).

[H. L. Chauvin]

Are you talking about the original Model A glass fuel filter mounted on the firewall that stays full after the engine dies?

If so, you have a gravity fed fuel system where fuel only flows downward just like water flows downhill; hence, the original glass bowl should always stay full of fuel as the engine supposedly dies of fuel starvation because gas cannot flow upwards.

Also you cannot see the drain opening on the in-side of the tank because the metal baffles are blocking the view.

Hope this helps.

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Hi 29,

Two (2) Very Important Specific Key Questions:

1. When your engine dies, what is the minimum number of seconds or minutes do you have to wait before the engine will easily re-start again?

2. Now that it is appearing to die in the driveway, (as opposed to just dying out on the street), once your engine is successfully re-started, & supposedly with the engine running fine, what is the maximum number of seconds or minutes the engine runs well before it either begins to misfire or dies in the "driveway"?

20 seconds

[drumyn29]

One of my tests also was I connected both ignition wires together and bypassed the switch completely.

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by drumyn29

I just did my half assed test!

I took spark plug wire off the cap, started the car and watched the spark jump to the terminal. While it started to die out I noticed that the spark disappeared completely.

Point gap?

Based on your test here, my uneducated guess is that it is one of the things mentioned in posts #34 or#36. I think they have listed the possible items to check one at a time like mentioned also above.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Only twenty (20) seconds time to restart ........ plus only a short 20 seconds of engine running time makes a difference.

Is it possible that you follow Ford's instructions by:

1. Retarding the spark, turning the switch to "ON", starting the engine, & afterwards begin moving the spark downwards whereby the engine dies.

2. Then after waiting a few seconds in awe, repeat paragraph (1) above where moving the spark lever shorts out the ignition as one gentleman mentioned above.

What happens if you start the engine & touch absolutely nothing?

[P.S.]

Do you have the "modern" wireless lower distributor plate, by chance?

[H. L. Chauvin]

You may get what appears to be some simple looking or even stupid looking questions; but do not give up & please continue to give details.

Unless you altered components with parts advertised as modern improvements, appears every time a Model A has problems, the solutions are always something so very simple.

Like ................ did you remove that clear, inline fuel filter yet that fills up with air & prevents fuel flow?

Never give up.

[drumyn29]

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Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Only twenty (20) seconds time to restart ........ plus only a short 20 seconds of engine running time makes a difference.

Is it possible that you follow Ford's instructions by:

1. Retarding the spark, turning the switch to "ON", starting the engine, & afterwards begin moving the spark downwards whereby the engine dies.

2. Then after waiting a few seconds in awe, repeat paragraph (1) above where moving the spark lever shorts out the ignition as one gentleman mentioned above.

What happens if you start the engine & touch absolutely nothing?

For the most part, It dies only as I give it more gas/load.

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by P.S.

Do you have the "modern" wireless lower distributor plate, by chance?

All stock parts!

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

You may get what appears to be some simple looking or even stupid looking questions; but do not give up & please continue to give details.

Unless you altered components with parts advertised as modern improvements, appears every time a Model A has problems, the solutions are always something so very simple.

Like ................ did you remove that clear, inline fuel filter yet that fills up with air & prevents fuel flow?

Never give up.

I haven't taken off fuel filter but I am fine with doing that.

[maxandmickey]

I had the same issue with mine,it would start and then die on me.it was starving for fuel.carb issue .dirt was getting into it.

[Mitch//pa]

Screwing the cable into the dist to far or maybe a frayed or loose lower plate wire.

Also when it loses spark see if your losing power to the coil at the black wire
should be the drivers side terminal that feeds off the junction box

Take an ohm reading from the point arm to the red wire at the coil while you move the advance lever up and down at the same and have the KOEO. ((Key on engine off)) a credit card between the points and ignition switch on

[drumyn29]

OK!

I did an ohm test on red wire on coil to points strap. At retard is was 0 and as I slowly moved to full advance it stopped somewhere in the 232-290 range.

HOWEVER, I noticed the coil was EXTREMELY hot while I was running my tests.

I also tested black coil wire while car was dying and it stayed lit the entire time.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by drumyn29

OK!

I did an ohm test on red wire on coil to points strap. At retard is was 0 and as I slowly moved to full advance it stopped somewhere in the 232-290 range.

HOWEVER, I noticed the coil was EXTREMELY hot while I was running my tests.

I also tested black coil wire while car was dying and it stayed lit the entire time.

disconnect the red wire from the coil and retest it should stay at 0 ohms the whole time while moving the lever,, credit card separating points

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

disconnect the red wire from the coil and retest it should stay at 0 ohms the whole time while moving the lever,, credit card separating points

With the points held open, shouldn't it show a resistive circuit, not 0 ohms?

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by P.S.

With the points held open, shouldn't it show a resistive circuit, not 0 ohms?

yes my error
but a chepo meter may not show much resistance in the circuit

[drumyn29]

disconnected red wire and got a reading of 0. And the coil still gets hot.

[P.S.]

Possible internal short in coil.

[drumyn29]

I happen to have an extra 6 volt coil and I installed and ran same tests and got same results, but the coil did NOT heat up this time.

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

disconnect the red wire from the coil and retest it should stay at 0 ohms the whole time while moving the lever,, credit card separating points

Am I supposed to be doing ohm test at TDC? Should I test when points are on a lobe or does it matter?

[Mitch//pa]

try it with a credit card separating the points , ignition on it should show a completed circuit from the red wire removed from the coil to the moveable point arm.. by move the advance lever around it flexes the lower plate wire and points insulator and may sometimes show up an intermittent by doing that.
the coil should not be getting hot with the ignition switch wire disconnected

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by drumyn29

disconnected red wire and got a reading of 0. And the coil still gets hot.

My mistake coil does NOT get hot.

[drumyn29]

I just tested again and it still says 0 from retard to advance with red wire disconnected. Coil ONLY gets hot with red connected.

Does this ohm reading sound right or is my ohm meter not working properly?

[Mitch//pa]

when you touch your ohm meter wires together it should calibrate at 0. not touching it should read infinity..

with the wire hooked up to the coil & point contacts separated ,ignition switch on, the coil should not get hot

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

when you touch your ohm meter wires together it should calibrate at 0. not touching it should read infinity..

with the wire hooked up to the coil & point contacts separated ,ignition switch on, the coil should not get hot

It calibrates at 0.

So I'm guessing the coil is shot?

[Mitch//pa]

your car does start then dies so some of these tests could be showing good at times..
you need to test when its not starting

intermittent things are a little tougher

ck your basics the points insulator mounting, lower plate wire, cable screwed in to far, throw your other coil you have on, possibly faulty new condenser, loose terminal box wires

[Tom Wesenberg]

When the key is ON and the points are OPEN, do you have 6 volts at the movable points contact?

If you have a slant pole coil, be sure the very first thing on each of the two primary slant posts are INSULATING washers, then the flat washer, lock washer and nut. Then the wire terminal and special barrel nut go on last. If the insulating washers are missing, you will have a short.

[P.S.]

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Then again....

Sometimes, you're just better off going with the "shotgun method".

Not long after I bought a worn out Tudor, it developed an intermittent ignition problem similar to yours. I spent days fiddling with this and that and many posts here with people like Tom and Mitch helping. At one point, I finally looked at the situation and thought it would be quicker to just shotgun it, so I replaced the entire distributor, coil and ignition switch, and all associated wires. Problem solved!

I took some flak here for not figuring it out piece by piece, but you get over it pretty quickly when your Model A is purring like a kitten and doesn't fail you.

If anyone gives you flak for shotgunning it, just offer to send them the old parts!

[drumyn29]

oooooooooook…..I'm not sure what exactly happened but here goes.

While connecting the coil I decided to open up top plate and saw that the wire snapped off and was resting on the spring. I feel like from moving advance back and forth for my ohm reading it must have snapped off then.

I soldered my own wire terminal and ran it around the block two times on BOTH coils and neither heated up and the car ran pretty decent without dying.

SOOOOOO, I guess it was the plate the whole time? It sucks because I checked that wire a million times.

I'll order a new plate tomorrow from antique auto ranch along with a new 6 volt coil.

Thank you ALL for so much help on this ordeal.

[Mitch//pa]

glad you found the intermittent culprit. you can also buy just that wire by itself from the suppliers. here is a pic from marcos site of how to bend the terminal so it does not rub the housing..

[Mitch//pa]

it was a pleasure going through some of the tests with you. everyone should have a meter, spark tester and test light...
here is just the wire from snyders

[Mitch//pa]

on post #52 when you moved the advance lever and the resistance picked up to the 200 range i bet that was detecting the broken strands at the wire connector

[H. L. Chauvin]

Just from many past experiences, in post response #44, with your explaining estimated 20 seconds for the engine dying & the engine restarting made that inner pigtail distributor wire appear most suspicious.

FWIW: There is a correct & simple "U" shaped layout method to loop this wire to stop spark change movement stress at the wire connections & avoid future abrasion of this wire's insulation as the top distributor plate is rotated.

Don't forget to discard the "For Sale" sign if you already bought it, & as an electrical expert you can now advise others.

Always something simple; and in the end, after 70 or so responses guess what:

After never giving up, it was "You" who detected your own problem !!!!! Good show.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Just from many past experiences, in post response #44, wwith your explaining estimated 20 seconds for the engine dying & the engine restarting made that inner pigtail distributor wire appear most suspicious.

FWIW: There is a correct & simple "U" shaped layout method to loop this wire to stop spark change movement stress at the wire connections & avoid future abrasion of this wire's insulation as the top distributor plate is rotated.

Don't forget to discard the "For Sale" sign if you already bought it, & as an electrical expert you can now advise others.

Always something simple; and in the end, after 70 or so responses guess what:

After never giving up, it was "You" who detected your own problem !!!!! Good show.

lol

[Tom Wesenberg]

Was the broken wire the correct 100 strands or more wire?

Notice that the terminal has two loops over the wire. The large loop is wrapped over the wire and insulation, while the shorter one is looped over just the bare wire. Use a bit of flux on the end of 60/40 electrical solder and solder just the bare wire end to the terminal. If you get the wire too hot, the solder will flow back along the wire to a point past the terminal, and this will make the wire stiff and more likely to break at that point.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Mitch,

Did not mean to hit your funny bone ....... my error.

In my reply # 71, the #44 should have been #43 mentioning the 20 seconds ...... #44 wasn't even my response. LOL

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

it was a pleasure going through some of the tests with you. everyone should have a meter, spark tester and test light...
here is just the wire from snyders

What about just hitting my local radio shack and make my own wire? I would think that they would sell the ends.

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Was the broken wire the correct 100 strands or more wire?

Notice that the terminal has two loops over the wire. The large loop is wrapped over the wire and insulation, while the shorter one is looped over just the bare wire. Use a bit of flux on the end of 60/40 electrical solder and solder just the bare wire end to the terminal. If you get the wire too hot, the solder will flow back along the wire to a point past the terminal, and this will make the wire stiff and more likely to break at that point.

I was taught to not heat up the wire, instead heat up the terminal and just barely touch the solder and give it just a little dab.

I really hate this whole wire design.

[H. L. Chauvin]

The pig tail wire sold by Model A parts vendors today is made with 100 strands to accept constant bending when moving the spark lever.

Thousands of Model A owners formerly used all type of unacceptable wire for substitution of this pig tail wire; hence, it either broke, the connections turned lose, or the wire did not flex whereby the insulation wore off after constant use.

Just think ............ look how long it took to find out it was this one (1) simple wire ..... use the vendors correct wire & never think about buying another For Sale sign because of this one (1) pig tail wire.

Hope this helps.

[Mitch//pa]

stick with the wire design

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by jmeckel

Yes Mitch I agree. Time to start, in a logical approach, shotgun approach only increases frustration and spends $'s with poor results. The trouble shooting needs to start when the issue is occurring, not after the fact when all is working. A quick check of the "strap" on the points to make sure when it gets hot it does not touch the case of the distributor. I for one spent a lot of time tracking this issue down on my A. New points are not all made as they used to be.

On the testing spark front, here is the best tool I ever spent $5.00 on, use it on old tractors, old stationary engines, and old cars. It helps to see if there is spark under load, when running. And you can test the spark by yourself.

Home

| Inline Ignition Spark Checker
Pittsburgh Automotive - item#69014
Check your ignition system with this ignition spark tester



Only: $5.99
Sale: $4.99

Yeah, my local Harbor Freight had them... Tried it out after my drive today... handy tool....

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by mshmodela

Yeah, my local Harbor Freight had them... Tried it out after my drive today... handy tool....

mike take note of the light intensity and quickness of the pulsing at idle vs revving it. this will give you something to compare it to if you ever have a weak or int spark situation

[drumyn29]

I melted the old solder off the terminals and re-soldered a new wire back on and it runs AMAZING!!!!

It was and still is a 20 strand but I will FOR SURE be changing to the appropriate 100 strand wire.

BIG THANKS AGAIN TO YOU GUYS!!!

She dodged the for sale sign this time and hopefully for good.

[drumyn29]

I feel like it may be a better idea buying entire plate, what are your thoughts?

I guess I'm just a bit worried about soldering and re-soldering so much on that terminal on the plate.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

DID ANYONE SAY, "CAREFULLY CLEAN YOUR POINT CONTACTS"???
Bill W.

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by drumyn29

I feel like it may be a better idea buying entire plate, what are your thoughts?

I guess I'm just a bit worried about soldering and re-soldering so much on that terminal on the plate.

You are correct in your thinking. Go for the whole plate.

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by drumyn29

I feel like it may be a better idea buying entire plate, what are your thoughts?

I guess I'm just a bit worried about soldering and re-soldering so much on that terminal on the plate.

Assuming the plate assy. comes with the correct multi-strand wire, I would certainly go for the whole plate.

However, be advised- Some of the repro plates come with a lame 20-strand copper wire instead of the 100 or so strand wire. I sent Tom Wessenberg some money a while back for a length of superfine multistrand wire for these distributor plates and redid mine and the spares with it. Doubt it will ever break. Ask Tom if he still has some he can sell you.

[Mitch//pa]

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i have used them with no trouble
bend the terminal as shown in post #68

[Gino]

I had this problem. In the end, after checking everything once, twice three times, I found the inanition switch to be grounding out against the gas tank. Only shorted out while driving. Hope this helps.

[Gino]

Oops sorry ignition switch

[Tom Wesenberg]

The repro plates I've seen are thinner metal, but should work ok if you don't screw the popout cable in too tight. Using the thick insulating washer under the condenser screw should also help to prevent ground shorts if the popout cable gets screwed in too tight.

[drumyn29]

I had the luxury of driving my daughter to first grade today in my Model A without it breaking down.

Life is good!!

[Bigdave]

Had a similar problem with a car last weekend. Finally changed condenser, and ran well.

[FrankWest]

Your car runs fine with idelling but under a load... driving it stalls....
Think what changes during a load...that of powering the weight of the car???

[drumyn29]

Been driving the Crap out of this car, LOVIN IT!!