What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies?

[bart78]

I think the younger kids could be gotten into the hobby. I know a lot of Hot Rod clubs will have open house night. One of the main things hold back most younger people. Besides the cost of the car or project. Is they have no place to work on them. People don't have shops in the subdivisions. They have two car garage. That mom or dads car is in. Or it's full of crap. People can't leave it up to just family to carry on with their cars. I'm the only one that wanted my grandfathers cars. My dad four uncles an one aunt did not want them. Or any of their kids.

[slackcat]

I'm 51 and my wife is 50. I always loved classic cars as does my wife and now our son too. Kids today have too many other distractions. Sports is now year round, the internet, i-phones, i-pads,............ cars are old tech and now disposible. We used to cruise main after school and weekends, socialize, not anymore. Times sure have changed.

A dwindling hobby.

[ronn]

All very well said............

the antique car hobby is going the way of the churches, for many of the same reasons.

Heck, McDonalds can't compete anymore with the likes of Panera, Chipotle or Chick Filet either!

A lot of competition out there in this day and age.

[BlueSunoco]

Originally Posted by newshirt

Some hobbies experience a "wave" just like at the football stadium, where you first see a few early-adopters, then a huge swell of mainstreamers, and then finally a smaller number of late-adopters after the swell has passed. You see this in technology, fads, hobbies, politics, and a lot of other places. People "jump on the bandwagon" and ride while it's still cool. Then they all pile off.

I feel like a late-adopter.

Exactly Newshirt. Example: Look at NASCAR, and what's happening there. 12 or so years ago it was the 'cool' thing to be involved with. Today, attendance numbers are heading south big time. Teams are trying to merge. Who in the heck wants to drop $700 to go to one race with a couple of kids in tow,NOT a family oriented event. Naw, most folks are finding better things to do with their money and time.

Also, in the early 70's when I was in high school, I was the only guy interested in Model A's. My buddies thought I was nuts. So things really haven't changed all that much today

[NCDave]

I'm generally an optimist, but I will agree with those who say that our cars are really not great "investments" for later resale or dollar worth; what they are is a current outlet for our enjoyment and appreciation of mechanical things and classic machines. I grew up in the fifties and sixties in a small town in a rural area. There were still several old "tin-shop" mechanics around here, and a couple owned and drove Model A's, and had the skills and experience to work on them. I observed them, and they helped foster my interest but such old-school mechanics are fading away rapidly. I was also an avid reader of hot rod magazines back in that day.

However, today is a whole different era in so many ways; younger people don't seem to be very interested in my Model A, even if some have the means to own them and the facilities to store and maintain them----that, as was mentioned above, is also a factor----a place to just work on an old car or local shops that can do the work for them.

I won't get into politics here, but there is a sad lack of appreciation of the scope of US history in our current US schools, beyond emphasis on the civil rights struggles of past decades. This lack of emphasis has the consequence of clueless young people when it comes to the contributions of past generations and the way the country was built and the machines that helped build it. As an example, a few years ago, I carried some neighbor's children with me to a local history event at the site of a former Confederate fort; there was cannon-firing and some living history demonstrations. The 13 year old asked me "who won the war?". Go ask a teenager who fought on which side in WWII.

I also did some substitute school teaching years back, and I was saddened by the pure lack of quality in the education that I saw in my limited exposure to the school situation then.

Other interest of mine is old tractors (John Deere). There is a decent interest in the hobby of restoring old tractors, but it appears limited to rural farm people for the most part who work with machines on a daily basis, and a lot of those tractors are inherited from family.

So will the Model A hobby survive? Yes, but with declining interest, as I see it. I also predict that a number will be bought and converted to hot-rods, as they are more road-worthy in modern traffic situations. Enjoy them while we can, and mentor as we can. Maybe I am "Captain Obvious" here.

[BigRix]

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I guess at 49 years old, I just got into the hobby when a friend asked me to work on his 29 Tudor. I dove in head first and am now considering buying one for myself. I am drawn to the simple and robust construction of these cars. I don't see either of my daughters being interested in them but that may change when I take them for a ride.

Now for my thoughts on the future of the hobby. I have nothing to go on other than my own anecdotal evidence, but that has never stopped me from forming an opinion before.

I am also into collecting Colt Double action revolvers and we have had this discussion many times. My argument has always used the car collecting hobby when discussing the ups and downs of the market.

It is my belief that the era of cars or guns that have the most demand are those that we lusted for as teenagers, but can only afford to buy now.

My father's generation grew up driving and lusting after Colt Single Action Army's and Model A's. My father in particular always wanted a '36 Cabriolet. He had plenty of Colt SAA's as he competed in fast draw competitions. Those items were very expensive when he was in his 50's and he could not afford them any more.

My generation lusts for Colt Pythons and Muscle cars. I've sold off all my Pythons and don't know that I will buy anymore unless I stumble onto a deal. Prices are just too high. I would love to own a '67 fastback mustang but don't know when I will find one at the price I would pay.

I think I would prefer to buy a nice Model A for $8,000 to $10,000 and slowly fix anything wrong with it. I doubt I would ever buy one that needs a complete resto. Unless it is a rare model you would be upside down in a hurry. The one thing I have learned with all the hobbies I have had over the years is I have to do the research up front and buy right. I can't afford to buy on emotion and not be able to get my money out of it.

To me, Model A's are a bargain. It would allow me an entry into the hobby and to be the first rung in the ladder. My first Colt Trooper cost me $400 and a worked my way up the ladder to my Last Python that I sold for $6500.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by V4F

im afraid the hobby will die soon do to lack of interest in the old cars that are not hot rods . their cost will take the down soon also . it seems most kids like the turn the key & go generic cars. no personality . not many younger people are interested in their parents / gparents cars . no pass me downs . just estate sales as we die............. JMHO

Today's youngsters hate old things, old things are not hip!
I had a student in my community college class that said he would not watch any movie made after 1980! He said the old films have not bearing on his life!

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by BigRix

I guess at 49 years old, I just got into the hobby when a friend asked me to work on his 29 Tudor. I dove in head first and am now considering buying one for myself. I am drawn to the simple and robust construction of these cars. I don't see either of my daughters being interested in them but that may change when I take them for a ride.

Now for my thoughts on the future of the hobby. I have nothing to go on other than my own anecdotal evidence, but that has never stopped me from forming an opinion before.

I am also into collecting Colt Double action revolvers and we have had this discussion many times. My argument has always used the car collecting hobby when discussing the ups and downs of the market.

It is my belief that the era of cars or guns that have the most demand are those that we lusted for as teenagers, but can only afford to buy now.

My father's generation grew up driving and lusting after Colt Single Action Army's and Model A's. My father in particular always wanted a '36 Cabriolet. He had plenty of Colt SAA's as he competed in fast draw competitions. Those items were very expensive when he was in his 50's and he could not afford them any more.

My generation lusts for Colt Pythons and Muscle cars. I've sold off all my Pythons and don't know that I will buy anymore unless I stumble onto a deal. Prices are just too high. I would love to own a '67 fastback mustang but don't know when I will find one at the price I would pay.

I think I would prefer to buy a nice Model A for $8,000 to $10,000 and slowly fix anything wrong with it. I doubt I would ever buy one that needs a complete resto. Unless it is a rare model you would be upside down in a hurry. The one thing I have learned with all the hobbies I have had over the years is I have to do the research up front and buy right. I can't afford to buy on emotion and not be able to get my money out of it.

To me, Model A's are a bargain. It would allow me an entry into the hobby and to be the first rung in the ladder. My first Colt Trooper cost me $400 and a worked my way up the ladder to my Last Python that I sold for $6500.

The youngster's today would rather have a cheesy plastic glock than a classic colt.
To them a colt is like a 120 year old cowboy gun.

[bikemaniac]

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

It seems that the younger generation is not interested in any mechanical projects of any kind. They just want to sit on the sofa and play games on there computer and watch TV. There are a few exceptions but the majority seem to be getting away from any mechanical hobbies, and they are loosing there mechanical skills.

+1. This is my exact impression. I am 35 and a mechanical engineer and have a Phd degree in materials science. I bought my model A project out of the blue without ever having driven one and nobody in my family had vintage cars. I work in a department with many mechanical engineers and nobody is into vintage cars except one guy who owns a vintage English roadster. And I can assure you that money is not a problem for the engineers at my age. There is simply no interest. Typical discussion topics during lunch with all the young mechanical engineers in the department:

1. Discuss the latest ski holiday.
2. Discuss home improvement.
3. Discuss a TV program.
4. Discuss a future travel to a large city.
5. Discuss the food.
6. Discuss fitness workout.
7. Discuss smartphones and new apps.
8. Discuss the battle between android and apple. For many engineers that is equivalent to technology.

... but nobody is interested in mechanical stuff.

Lucas

[1930artdeco]

I will have to agree with almost everything said here. I would like the National clubs to do at least two things: 1) get over their petty differences and combine to make one club that as the goal of getting new members and the cars out there to be seen. And 2) maybe they could hire a PR firm for advise or and ad campaign.

What I disagree with is the idea that these cars are expensive. Yes it is expensive to build a motor at about 4K. But that same motor if done right will last 20 years or more. Factoring in a motor lasts about 50k if maintained properly and we put about 1k a year on them....Like anything that needs to be worked on, if it is done right it is expensive but it will last and you wont have to rebuild for years. So there is a trade off-expense vs. length of time it operates. Something young people can learn from.

OK, I will get off my soapbox now....

Mike

[NCDave]

FrankWest,
I can say if I owned that Python, I could never bring myself to sell it!!! Beautiful!

[holdover]

I am 68 and back into Model As after being away for 42 years. I have a ’29 Coupe and a ’29 Pickup both stock not hotrods. I own them for the enjoyment of driving them with my wife and grandbabies, not as an investment. I do all the work myself. My adult son enjoys them but I do not feel he would invest any money in one, I also own a ’65 Mustang fastback 289/271HP 4speed and a ‘67 Mustang 390, 4 speed fastback, those he likes. At a local car show here in June there were 4 stock Model A’s and 2 hotrods, pretty good turnout. There were about 100 cars in the show and a lot of people liked the A’s , especially the kids which is a good thing, plant those seeds early. The bad thing about it though was that the original A owners ranged from late 50s to mid 70s, the hotrod owners in their 30-40s.

[P.S.]

Like Lucas, I am also an engineer and own 1 Model A. My wife and I are consistently the youngest couple at almost any Model A gathering. Among my peers, the Model A isn't a consideration for many reasons-

1. Not practical
2. Cannot be your only car (let's be serious here, these days- it can't).
3. Cannot be neglected and still work flawlessly.
4. Doesn't have bluetooth.
5. Isn't a trendy lame hybrid
etc.

The Model A isn't a "hobby" to wife and I, it is a car. We just both happen to love the era itself in automobile design. Though we have taken a few long trips in the Model A, mostly we just use it for a trip out to dinner or to the movies. It probably makes more trips to the post office in town than anything else.

Neither of us care about what other people think of us or our stuff. However, that cannot be said for the majority of people in our age group. Looks and impressions seem to be everything to most people our age. A Model A really doesn't fit that lifestyle.

As for people our age or even younger than us, they have debt and need to be more frugal (we are debt free). Since classic car insurance dictates that your classic cannot be your only car, if you can barely afford 1 car, how can you afford more? Let's face it, for young people, a second car used strictly for recreation is a luxury item.

Sure, there are exceptions, and some of those exceptional young people are here on this forum. However, thinking back 10 years ago when wife and I were just finishing up building our first home, every penny and every minute of our spare time was consumed on building our lives and our family. We weren't even thinking about kids yet, but knew it could happen someday. A Model A would have been the first thing to go when we needed an extra few bucks.

Mike- You only put 1K miles on that girl a year? Man, we do that in like 3 months. Park the motorbike and drive the A, man!

As for the OP's questions-

Originally Posted by M2M

How have we got here and in which direction are we going?

We got here because the automobile isn't a cultural American icon anymore. There are teens and 20-somethings that have no interest in owning a car these days.

Originally Posted by M2M

Could there be a surge of interest in Model T and Model A cars like the one in Muscle Cars?

Interesting question! I do see some late teens and early 20-somethings riding around in late 60's and 70's muscle cars now and then. The attraction seems to be that parts are readily available, they are fairly reliable as an only car, and they will easily do highway speeds for extended periods (for visiting friends, schools, whatever). These cars can be rodded easier than restored and will provide go-anywhere, anytime, any condition transportation.

Originally Posted by M2M

Are the clubs doing enough to promote themselves and the hobby? Is it their role to do so?

My opinion follows:

No, not even close. The national clubs seem to be hyper-focused on the very things that made them great 30 years ago. Having a "youth program" that doesn't do anything does not attract youth. Unfortunately, to reach the "me generation", you have to go way overboard and spoon feed them to get interest. The national clubs, and mostly their aging members, don't want to do that. They have this "you have to earn it" attitude. Well, the entitled generation today is what it is, and as much as the old farts hate it, that's reality.

You can't spank a kid in the store without a police response these days. Times HAVE changed. The older generation wants to keep the national clubs the same way they were 30 years ago. Well, OK, I will give you this- They did start websites. These days, EVERYBODY has a website. So what? Does MARC of MAFCA have a strong social media presence?

I'm not sure it is their role to do so, I think it is up to each person that considers owning a Model A automobile to be a hobby. I have to tell you, in my limited experience, about 30% of the Model A owners I have met are absolutely fantastic, helpful, supportive people. The other 70% are not. The 30% minority cannot make it happen by themselves. There's your answer.

[Barber31]

Being new to the model A scene I can't speak for the first question but I can for the second. I feel the model A is and has been having a surge of interest, just not in the fashion most here would like to see. More of ratrod and hotrod style which most here and I'm sure in the big clubs really don't care for. Just yesterday I was at Wally World and had about 4 magazines that were full of model A cars but once again not in its traditional form. Being that I do love both restored and custom A's I feel as long as someone is saving them in any fashion, it's a good thing.

[Lona]

There will be no future for our hobby if the younger generations don't have an interest in our cars. Each generation tends to be interested in the cars they grew up with or the cars of their parents generation because they are familiar with them. With prices of our cars slowly dropping and an abundance of parts, this presents an opportunity for the younger generations to get into a less expensive end of the car hobby. However, we need to find ways to get them interested as others have said.

At the car shows we attend, almost all exhibitors have "don't touch" signs on their cars. We have no signs on ours and, in fact, encourage everyone, especially kids, to not only touch but to sit in them with parental supervision. Next show we will have a sign that says "please feel free to touch". It's one way we can get kids interested in our cars but more important, gives us an opportunity to chat with the parents who are indeed at the age where they might just catch the vintage car bug from us.

Glen

[Lona]

There will be no future for our hobby if the younger generations don't have an interest in our cars. Each generation tends to be interested in the cars they grew up with or the cars of their parents generation because they are familiar with them. With prices of our cars slowly dropping and an abundance of parts, this presents an opportunity for the younger generations to get into a less expensive end of the car hobby. However, we need to find ways to get them interested as others have said.

At the car shows we attend, almost all exhibitors have "don't touch" signs on their cars. We have no signs on ours and, in fact, encourage everyone, especially kids, to not only touch but to sit in them with parental supervision. Next show we will have a sign that says "please feel free to touch". It's one way we can get kids interested in our cars but more important, gives us an opportunity to chat with the parents who are indeed at the age where they might just catch the vintage car bug from us.

Glen

[Barber31]

Also one of the big obstacles I see is the age difference. Almost all the A owners I see online, on youtube or tv have had " long relationships with Father Time ". I personally would love to spend time with this age group as there is much to learn from them but being that I'm 30 and my wife is 27, I don't think there's much that they could learn from us. Except maybe about Facebook or new Bluetooth gadgets. The average young person is not gonna want to go out of his way to join a club that everybody ignores him.

[Brother Hesekiel]

Aged almost 57 right now, I've been a car guy all of my life, and was lucky enough -- starting in the mid-'80s, but getting serious in 1999 when the Internet took off -- to turn my hobby into my business. These days, we sell about 150 classic cars per year, the majority of them classic Porsche 911s, and the majority of those to the olde World.

I've owned numerous cars over the years and have driven pretty much everything I ever wanted to drive. Had I "invested" my disposable "hobby" money in a Porsche at any time in the past, I'd be looking at a serious monetary gain today. Thing is, I don't like Porsches very much, nor do I like Muscle Cars or most of the British variety. They are too "normal" for my taste, as is about every other car. It's like you work in a bakery and taste sweets all day, every day, at some point you just don't want those anymore. You want something else.

History confirms that people buy cars as a hobby that they lusted for as youngsters, when they couldn't afford them. That's why 1960s to 1980s Porsches are hot right now: the generation X folks always thought they'd be cool to own, being like Steve Mc Queen, but they simply didn't have the financial means to do so. Today they do.

The folks who fondly remember the Model A being a fixture on public roads, as it was during the time of the Waltons, are in their 60s, 70s, and 80s now. The A, albeit a much more modern and usable car than the Model T (which I also own), will follow the T into obscurity. It will be a strange thing to look at, but almost no generation Y and Z member will want to buy one.

One of the reasons I own a Model A Roadster is that I was able to afford one that needed really nothing to be enjoyed. I paid $14,5K for mine, and I drive it every weekend. I take it home on Friday, and drive it like my "normal" car 'til Monday morning, when I take it back and switch it with my '62 Volvo, which is my Monday-to-Friday everyday classic. Had the price for my car been $30K, I would not have been able to justify the purchase. Not because I don't have the money, but because I don't own any personal car that expensive, and I own 9 personal vehicles, and I drive 'em all. No trailer queens in my garage.

If you go on vacation, you spend thousands of dollars on quality time away from the daily grind. For me, every time I jump in my A and drive it, even to work, I'm still on vacation. If I do the same in my "modern" car, I'm part of the rat race. So what price to you put on vacation time? For me, it doesn't matter if my A will bring the same $14,5K when I sell it 20 years from now, or $8,5K, or $18,5K. Whatever the presumed loss will be, I chalk it up as the price of enjoyment. I do make money, and I invest money in my retirement fund, so I'm not ignorant of the need to save for retirement, but my toys are not investments. Sure, it would be nice if my A is worth twice what I paid for it when I'm ready to retire, but it's just a side-effect, not a prerequisite for choosing what I like.

Thus, I too feel that the Model A hobby will continue to decline, and any presumed increase in prices will merely offset the inflation. More cars will become available, less buyers will be there to sweep 'em up. Many of those will become hot rods, as those things simply apply to a younger generation. Like typewriters, old cameras, tube radios, and other mechanical devices, the Model A will become less of a common sight year after year after year. But it's not all bad, as declining prices also mean that more potential buyers can afford such a car.

Another thread is the legislator. In Europe we already have inner city zones where cars without a certain emission certification are no longer allowed. Eventually this will reach our shores. Once that happens, the old car hobby will take another hit. Now add to this the aforementioned fact that today's kids don't have the same connection to cars that we have, and the perfect storm is coming to our shores. Hopefully that will happen after I'm out of the picture.

[waxhead]

Interesting to read all of these comments and see responses from so many people in their 30's. I also am still in my 30's, if only just, so I think that not all hope is lost just yet. It seems to be that people in their 30's and 40's are at an age where they may have a disposable income that can afford themselves a "toy" to drive on weekends.

Although lowered, my car is still powered by an original engine and is pretty much stock, with the exception of a few go-fast engine parts. A lot of the younger generation around here are very interested in my car, and always ask questions about it, so there is some interest. Most are just at a stage in their life where they cannot afford a car just for fun.

The upside is, if prices fall, I will be able to add some more A's to my collection at a reasonable price.

[yjwrangler95]

I'm 34 and in the process of restomodding my grandpa's model A. I'm doing all the work and he is having a ball watching it progress. The A has been in my possession for over 6 years and I finally got around to doing somthing with it. I strated a thread here on it.

I'm a Civil Engineer and very mechanical, I have been all my life. I grew up in the country and learned how to work on things out of necessity. Most of my friends are pretty mechanical, we build jeeps. I built this one below a couple of years ago.

As far as the hobby of Model A's I have yet to meet a person my age with a Model A in our area. Most of my friends are into wakeboarding, riding motorcycles and other motor sports. I really think thinsg are cyclical, trends come and go. Model A's will have a place in the future. It really depends on current owners. I learned quite a bit about Model A's from an older man that is no longer with us. He had one growing up. Its a generation issue, just like anything from long ago. Get your kids, grandkids, neighbors, friends involved. If they like it they will get involved. Just like anything, different strokes for different folks. The sooner you intruduce someone to Model A's the better it will be