What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies?

[M2M]

Cost of parts and restoration services rise year by year (look at the price of a SCAT crank now compared to 3 years ago), but the value of cars seems static. In the USA well restored non-brass Ts can be had for < $12K. I've seen a few real nice Model A Coupes and Pick-ups for < $15K. In Australia prices are a bit higher as the supply/demand ratio is perhaps more even and the fact that it costs more to restore a car and buy parts Down Under.

Production of some real nice products such as the Model A Burlington Crankshaft and Bill Stipe's Model A shocks have ceased. Chaffin's business is up for sale...would be a big loss to the T hobby to lose Rajo and Ruxstell kits.

How have we got here and in which direction are we going? Could there be a surge of interest in Model T and Model A cars like the one in Muscle Cars? Are the clubs doing enough to promote themselves and the hobby? Is it their role to do so?

What are your thoughts?

[Franchise_24]

We need more younger people to get involved. I know in our club, I'm 35 and my wife is 33 and we are the youngest, with the next closes ages in their 50's.

[rocket1]

all I know is that some older cars are worth a lot more than others,I should have bought a 1957 Chevy instead of my !957 Studebaker I don't think the young people today are interested in Model A's,never see a younger owner at any meets,we are going the way of the Model T,not many people want one.

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

We need more younger people to get involved. I know in our club, I'm 35 and my wife is 33 and we are the youngest, with the next closes ages in their 50's.

Everyone agrees with you.

I have heard this same basic statement for the past 10 years or so.

As someone in the "mid-30s demographic group", what 2 or 3 things would you recommend be done at the local level (by local clubs) and at the national level (by MTFCA, MARC, MAFCA, etc) to attract people like you and your wife to the hobby?

What could the local or national clubs do that they are not doing now?

What could they do slightly differently to make the hobby more attractive to people your age?

Do you feel people your age are aware of the Model T and Model A vehicles? Or is more publicity about them needed?

Do they know that a Model A can be quite reliable and actually drive at a decent speed?

As antique cars go, Model Ts and As are actually still quite affordable (compared to other marques, like Packard, Cadillac, etc.).

[bart78]

I am 35 and like the old cars a bunch. But I am the only one in my area around my age. There is a guy that is in his 50's. But no one likes him. He spends more time telling people what's wrong with their cars. There are a couple older guys up in their 80's. But that's it. Young people around here were brought up on horses and cows not cars. I think the cost of the hobby is going to keep most of them out.

[Chris in CT]

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Hi M2M, You have some very interesting thoughts here, but let me ask you about your handle. On this side of the Pacific Ocean, M2M means "machine to machine" and refers to an emerging technology in which computers speak to other machines (production machines, for instance) and the prod. machines speak back to them in a way that process can be altered while the machines are running. It is an emerging technology. It is also a disruptive technology.

Model A Fords are an anachronistic technology. So are pianos and many other complicated mechanical devices that we all have fond memories of from our families and from our childhoods. Strictly speaking, they have very little place in our modern culture. There are numerous difficulties in trying to preserve their presence in our lives, and one of these is the fact that we will spend a great deal more money than they are objectively worth in attempting both to preserve and utilize them.

Why do we do it? Memory! Reaching back to a time when life (as we knew it) was stable, predictable, and secure. My first car was a '30 Ford coupe that I courted my wife of 50 years in. Do I want to go back to that place? You bet - in my thoughts at least.

And with respect to the Ladies involved in the hobby, it is also a very solid "male" world to live in, this hobby. With other aspects of our culture becoming "gender neutral", it is a place where we have always been able to gender-identify, but this goes back to memory, doesn't it? We could write a book about this, but Fordbarn is not the place for it... Continue on your fabulous road-trip!

Chris

[bart78]

I think what keeps a lot of younger people from restoring model A's. Is the attitude of a lot of the guys I have met. There are allways the one or two guys that know everything. And want to tell you all that is wrong even though you have not asked them. When you are at a local small car show. An you are telling another guy his tail lights are wrong. Or his wheel color is wrong. People don't want to hear that. I have known a lot of model a guys to be worse than Corvette guys.

[denis4x4]

The hobby will never go away. Family members will continue to carry the torch, all be it to a lesser degree. The cultural change in youth will have more to do with the future than the price of cars and parts. The simplicity of an A is not all that appealing to a young person who would rather take a laptop and make a Honda go faster with a few strokes on the keyboard. The boards of the national clubs have done a piss poor job of promoting the hobby beyond the current membership to the general populace. The shear numbers of running A's will keep prices in line.

[C26Pinelake]

It used to be that Model A's were plentiful at car shows. I was at a show on the weekend that attracted 450 cars. There were 2 Model A's ! My Cabriolet and an old Tudor that had been hot rodded. There were only 8 cars pre 1950. My car attracted the 60 and above crowd predomininately. The 75 and above group loved it ! In my opinion we are headed in a downward trend which means our cars are not in demand and that means the price is also declining. Model A's today better be bought for enjoyment because they are not a good financial investment. JMHO !
Wayne

[BlueSunoco]

Originally Posted by bart78

I think what keeps a lot of younger people from restoring model A's. Is the attitude of a lot of the guys I have met. There are allways the one or two guys that know everything. And want to tell you all that is wrong even though you have not asked them. When you are at a local small car show. An you are telling another guy his tail lights are wrong. Or his wheel color is wrong. People don't want to hear that. I have known a lot of model a guys to be worse than Corvette guys.

I saw this not long ago. I was at a parade, looking at the antique cars lining up. One guy had a VERY nice '30 Tudor that he had just finished. An 80 year old guy that I know walked over to the car and started trying to pick it apart. He told the Tudor owner finally 'You put the windshield swing arms on backwards(?)' The guy with the Tudor calmly said 'Well, I guess in doing the entire car there was going to be SOMETHING I may have done wrong' and turned and walked away.

And to make it worse, the 80 year old had a Coupe there that looked like it had been restored by the St. Lucia Children's School for the Blind it was nasty. And HE was the one who 'restored' it

In answer to the original thread, yes you can get upside down REAL fast in about any old car restoration. If you hire it all out. I guess I look at it like, pay what you can afford for the best you can have and don't look back. Just get out there and enjoy the hobby.

If you are trying to gauge Model A's as investment property then you had best go elsewhere. Don't play here

[fordf1trucknut]

I am 33 and now have a running driving 30 coupe and 23 touring car. Plus another a project and a bunch of other 50s cars.

I really am a strange....not too many others my age in the area into older cars enough to spend the money and time to run them.

[Model A Man]

In my opinion the cost is what is keeping youngsters from owning model A's. License fees cost of insurance. The cost of getting a motor rebuilt only to have it last a short time ( upward of $4,000.00) when you can buy a complete 327 motor for $1,500.00 that will last for years. The cost of rebuilding the brake system is a thousand plus. when I rebuilt the brakes on my dodge truck, including four new rotors was less than $400.00. Plus there are not many jobs available for the young crowd that will afford them the luxury of owning a model a or t . If better parts and more reliable rebuilds were available I know I would own many more model a's and I would love to own a model t. (I am really hoping that Tod will have at least have solved some of the issues i mentioned by having new affordable model a motors available soon)

[newshirt]

Some hobbies experience a "wave" just like at the football stadium, where you first see a few early-adopters, then a huge swell of mainstreamers, and then finally a smaller number of late-adopters after the swell has passed. You see this in technology, fads, hobbies, politics, and a lot of other places. People "jump on the bandwagon" and ride while it's still cool. Then they all pile off.

I feel like a late-adopter.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi M2M,

Maybe one of the best gauges for monitoring the future of this hobby is to monitor organization membership numbers, (numbers of interested "people" interested), at the local level & national level.

It appears that some of the most contributing factors to this hobby's continuance are:

1. The national & local Model T & A Clubs providing technical restoration information, beautiful pictures of restored vehicles & portraying countryside tours with same, accompanied by before & after restoration photos; and,

2. Internet forums where the newly uninformed restorers can acquire friendly restoration technical information & assistance. (This includes when a new person asks what kind of oil to use, be nice, he is new).

3. Parts vendors striving to continually provide more "quality" restoration parts & sheet metal, engine & drive train rebuilding etc.

There are also many guys who come to these Forums with interest to read about Model As, & may dream of one day owning a Model A; but never post questions or comments. No doubt some are waiting for retirement when they will have more free "time" to attempt a restoration.

In the end, if we compare this hobby to for example, the Chambers of Commerce, the Lions Club, Daughters of the Revolution, any ancient Judeo-Christian Faith from centuries ago, it becomes obvious that absolutely no organization involving "people" ever survived without an organized, ongoing functional "membership drive", which continues to replenish the organization with new members as former members pass on.

What is the future of this hobby? Just look in the mirror.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by BlueSunoco

I saw this not long ago. I was at a parade, looking at the antique cars lining up. One guy had a VERY nice '30 Tudor that he had just finished. An 80 year old guy that I know walked over to the car and started trying to pick it apart. He told the Tudor owner finally 'You put the windshield swing arms on backwards(?)' The guy with the Tudor calmly said 'Well, I guess in doing the entire car there was going to be SOMETHING I may have done wrong' and turned and walked away.

And to make it worse, the 80 year old had a Coupe there that looked like it had been restored by the St. Lucia Children's School for the Blind it was nasty. And HE was the one who 'restored' it

In answer to the original thread, yes you can get upside down REAL fast in about any old car restoration. If you hire it all out. I guess I look at it like, pay what you can afford for the best you can have and don't look back. Just get out there and enjoy the hobby.

If you are trying to gauge Model A's as investment property then you had best go elsewhere. Don't play here

And on the other hand, I have been to quite a few local shows with my 1928 & 29 Coupe & roadster, Both with Master Restoration Awards on the Radiator shell.. When the awards are spotted, I am often ask by Younger guys to come and look at there cars & tell them what I may see wrong. Many times I end up selling them the right parts & or working on the car..

[sam03]

I think the hobby requires patients and money and most young people dont have it. With out a father or grandfather that has the knowledge and the patients/money to help a young person build and maintain an old car its nearly impossible. I know what you mean when someone picks your project apart its not very motivating. We just have to learn not to say it out loud when we dont agree with the way someone is restoring "their" project. I have been to plenty of shows and seen really nice restored Ford and when i look under the hood and see a chevy it hurts. But its not my car so i just keep walking. When i was talking to the guy i bought my new flathead from this weekend i asked him what he was planning on putting it in and he laugh and said you are not going to like my answer. Which caught me off guard. I just laughed and what? He said well i was planning on buying a 53 gmc truck, he said i always though the flatheads where cool but likes gmc truck better. I said well a Ford in a gmc is better than gmc in a Ford. So you never know the reason behind what someone does with the hotrod. I dont think the hobby will go away but i think lots of the knowledge is not being passed along. We need more old guys writing books and on forums so us young guys can learn how its done.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Folks need to remember that a Model-A has never been a high-value automobile. That by it's very nature is why most of y'all own one! Ironically, I have been involved in this hobby all of my 50+ years and I can remember this same conversation being held at club meetings back in the 60's. Guess what, each subsequent decade saw Model-A prices higher than the previous decade. I will also tell you that from my professional perspective, there is always a buyer for someone's Model-A. The issue that I have witnessed is the Seller often places a higher value due to their bias that creates the "difficult to sell" scenario. It goes without saying that the market (true Buyers) set the true value. Oh and BTW, exactly why does someone have the mindset that ownership of anything should be a financial investment? The majority of 'things' people own are NOT a financial investment yet they purchase them anyway.

I pretty much agree with Denis' thoughts above. As far as Clubs are concerned, I have sat on the board of a national antique car club, and I can speak from my experience that a club must be operated just like a business (---which most are not!!), ...not just with handling the money but with Missions, Advertising/Marketing, Promotions, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, having something of value to offer their customer. The reason club membership is in decline is the perceived value from members & hobbyists. For most clubs, their magazine is their only true reason why the majority (90%+\- ??) of their members join/renew. Therefore it is easy for a (prospective) member to ask what am I getting for my hard earned $$ that I cannot receive elsewhere?? With the age of electronics & internet, finding information is much faster & easier than via a club magazine. As I sit here in a Dr.s office awaiting my turn, it is painfully clear which is the better option at the moment for learning about Model-As.

[Gunmetal blue2]

In the School that I graduated from this year they took away auto shop, machine shop, wood working, electrical and we are known for being the RV Capital of the world. So how are the kids suppost to learn to do any thing if they don't get tot. I am 58 years old. I started working on Model A's when I was 15 years old. I didn't have any body to help me back then.

[JohnLaVoy]

I concur with Brent. We need to do a better job of marketing the hobby. I also feel that the focus on the "youth", while nice, isn't the demographic that is looking for a hobby. The late 40 to early 50 group, kids are grown a little extra money and looking for a hobby. But we don't market to them. Our events are closed to members only. The competition for this group is the street rod/hot rod hobby. We should look at how they approach the general public and put on their meets to see where we need to go to compete for this segment of the people looking to purchase a car and get into a hobby.

[V4F]

im afraid the hobby will die soon do to lack of interest in the old cars that are not hot rods . their cost will take the down soon also . it seems most kids like the turn the key & go generic cars. no personality . not many younger people are interested in their parents / gparents cars . no pass me downs . just estate sales as we die............. JMHO