The Ford Barn

jwinterstein · 07-28-2013, 09:09 PM

Last evening my 29 model A Sport Coupe was running well after I changed the water pump which had a bad front bearing. Today, I left to get gas and about 1/4 mile from the house it began to backfire significantly and lose power and eventually stopped altogether (about a mile down the road). I towed it back and it has adequate fuel which is getting to the carburetor. I pulled #1 plug and turned the engine over and saw a good spark. Points are at 18 and the distributor has the condenser on the upper plate. It will not fire at all at this point. Any ideas?

Purdy Swoft · 07-28-2013, 09:31 PM

The modern style condensers that mount on the upper plate give a lot of trouble. I would recommend swapping back with the original style points and condenser. There is no advantage with the so called modern set up.

Tom Wesenberg · 07-28-2013, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The modern style condensers that mount on the upper plate give a lot of trouble. I would recommend swapping back with the original style points and condenser. There is no advantage with the so called modern set up.

I agree.

Have you held the coil wire 1/4" from a head nut to check for spark?

jwinterstein · 07-28-2013, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I agree.

Have you held the coil wire 1/4" from a head nut to check for spark?

Haven't but will.

700rpm · 07-28-2013, 10:54 PM

Set the points at .020. Also check to see the rubbing block hasn't worn down on the points.

johnbuckley · 07-29-2013, 03:10 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Follow the tests on this link - practically fool proof (- even works for me!). http://www.sacramentocapitolas.org/s...20Shooting.pdf

jwinterstein · 07-29-2013, 07:25 PM

Thanks for this Johnbuckley - a little more information - today, with a bit of starter fluid, it fired up. I let it warm up and took it down the road - ran fine. I turned around and when I got into second gear, I stepped on it a bit and then it began to stumble, lose power etc. I pulled the choke and it momentarily started up and then died down and stopped. I popped the clutch and it started again but no amount of gas feed or choke would keep it running. In fact, when I pull the choke, it seems to improve and then as is typical with a pulled choke it begins to die. It SEEMS to be to be a gas issue. I pulled the gas line from the end of a modern filter someone put on before I had it and opened the valve and gas seemed to flow reasonably well. I had also opened the gas cap a bit before going down the road. So, I know gas is getting to the carburetor, and when I pulled #1 plug, I had gas in the cylinder and had spark when I turned it over - so that's where I am at this point. I will read this site and see what I get. Thanks to all. If anyone has any other ideas I am all ears. I will check the points and probably put in a new condenser just on principle.

jwinterstein · 07-29-2013, 07:28 PM

One other thing I have not done yet is check the coil. I do get spark at the plug, but when I think about it, it is not a great zapper! could be under pressure the spark is weak?

Patrick L. · 07-29-2013, 07:35 PM

If you try changing the condenser, get a good one. You'll pay more for the better quality ones from NAPA.

William Kelchner · 07-29-2013, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnbuckley

Follow the tests on this link - practically fool proof (- even works for me!). http://www.sacramentocapitolas.org/s...20Shooting.pdf

Experienced an engine shutdown a week or so ago and the expert A'er I was with discovered the Ampmeter nuts were loose. I notice this is mentioned in the link document..I probably would have never checked for loose nuts.....tnx

Tom Wesenberg · 07-29-2013, 09:12 PM

Have you checked the filter in the top half of the carb? That filter is usually shot or plugged on the swap meet carbs I picked up years ago. Also make sure the fuel line isn't pushed in too far beyond the ferule or it can block off fuel flow.

jwinterstein · 07-31-2013, 03:10 PM

Ok, I got some things figured out. I followed the recommendation sent by Johnbuckley and the problem - is not electrical. Great coil spark, good condenser, points, plugs carboned but good - gapped them and cleaned them. No frayed wires. I am in the 4% category regarding the reason for an engine stopping - it was fuel. The former owner had put in an in-line filter. I took it off and it was full of rust particles and junk. Then I cleaned the carb which also had some of the same. Put it all back together and it runs like a champ! Thanks to everyone.

H. L. Chauvin · 07-31-2013, 04:13 PM

Hi j,

Some have absolutely no idea concerning the tremendous educational impact on any Forum when someone with a problem is compassionate enough to take the time to type a message reporting how a problem was fixed.

All intelligent educators were humble former students at one time trying their very best to learn.

Thank you for the reply -- it is surely very much appreciated by all who are interested in keeping their Model A's running.

TDO · 07-31-2013, 04:22 PM

I agree with the others ,go back to the original points and condenser. the modern points and condenser is just a head ache.

Patrick L. · 08-02-2013, 05:54 AM

Well good. It just goes to show that most electrical problems are fuel related and most fuel problems are electrical in nature.
I think the newer modern upper plates[within the last 10 years or so] are pretty good, the problem has been fixed. While I too prefer original, the modern plate has been trouble-free as long as the 'good' points/condenser are used.

jwinterstein · 08-04-2013, 04:14 PM

Hi all,

I still have the "modern" points and condenser but I went to NAPA and purchased the Ford 1970 points and condenser for the V8 and also got a new rotor. With the new fuel filter (also from NAPA) and one in reserve, I believe I am pretty good to go. When I first got the car, the first time I drove it for about 4 miles, it overheated. I did have a "loose fan" - someone had not tightened the nut down and I thought it was the front bearing. I put in a new sealed bearing pump (looks just like the original), added a 160 degree thermostat in the top hose (which I changed) and added a bottle of "wetter water" and since then no overheating. If it happens again, it will be a re-core of the radiator.

07-28-2013, 09:31 PM	#2
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Backfiring The modern style condensers that mount on the upper plate give a lot of trouble. I would recommend swapping back with the original style points and condenser. There is no advantage with the so called modern set up.

07-28-2013, 10:54 PM	#5
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,906	Re: Backfiring Set the points at .020. Also check to see the rubbing block hasn't worn down on the points. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

07-29-2013, 03:10 AM	#6
johnbuckley Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,443	Re: Backfiring Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Follow the tests on this link - practically fool proof (- even works for me!). http://www.sacramentocapitolas.org/s...20Shooting.pdf

07-29-2013, 07:25 PM	#7
jwinterstein Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Edgewood Illinois Posts: 12	Re: Backfiring Thanks for this Johnbuckley - a little more information - today, with a bit of starter fluid, it fired up. I let it warm up and took it down the road - ran fine. I turned around and when I got into second gear, I stepped on it a bit and then it began to stumble, lose power etc. I pulled the choke and it momentarily started up and then died down and stopped. I popped the clutch and it started again but no amount of gas feed or choke would keep it running. In fact, when I pull the choke, it seems to improve and then as is typical with a pulled choke it begins to die. It SEEMS to be to be a gas issue. I pulled the gas line from the end of a modern filter someone put on before I had it and opened the valve and gas seemed to flow reasonably well. I had also opened the gas cap a bit before going down the road. So, I know gas is getting to the carburetor, and when I pulled #1 plug, I had gas in the cylinder and had spark when I turned it over - so that's where I am at this point. I will read this site and see what I get. Thanks to all. If anyone has any other ideas I am all ears. I will check the points and probably put in a new condenser just on principle.

07-29-2013, 07:28 PM	#8
jwinterstein Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Edgewood Illinois Posts: 12	Re: Backfiring One other thing I have not done yet is check the coil. I do get spark at the plug, but when I think about it, it is not a great zapper! could be under pressure the spark is weak?

07-28-2013, 09:09 PM	#1
jwinterstein Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Edgewood Illinois Posts: 12	Backfiring Last evening my 29 model A Sport Coupe was running well after I changed the water pump which had a bad front bearing. Today, I left to get gas and about 1/4 mile from the house it began to backfire significantly and lose power and eventually stopped altogether (about a mile down the road). I towed it back and it has adequate fuel which is getting to the carburetor. I pulled #1 plug and turned the engine over and saw a good spark. Points are at 18 and the distributor has the condenser on the upper plate. It will not fire at all at this point. Any ideas?

07-29-2013, 07:35 PM	#9
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Backfiring If you try changing the condenser, get a good one. You'll pay more for the better quality ones from NAPA.

07-29-2013, 09:12 PM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Backfiring Have you checked the filter in the top half of the carb? That filter is usually shot or plugged on the swap meet carbs I picked up years ago. Also make sure the fuel line isn't pushed in too far beyond the ferule or it can block off fuel flow.

07-31-2013, 03:10 PM	#12
jwinterstein Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Edgewood Illinois Posts: 12	Re: Backfiring Ok, I got some things figured out. I followed the recommendation sent by Johnbuckley and the problem - is not electrical. Great coil spark, good condenser, points, plugs carboned but good - gapped them and cleaned them. No frayed wires. I am in the 4% category regarding the reason for an engine stopping - it was fuel. The former owner had put in an in-line filter. I took it off and it was full of rust particles and junk. Then I cleaned the carb which also had some of the same. Put it all back together and it runs like a champ! Thanks to everyone.

07-31-2013, 04:13 PM	#13
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Backfiring Hi j, Some have absolutely no idea concerning the tremendous educational impact on any Forum when someone with a problem is compassionate enough to take the time to type a message reporting how a problem was fixed. All intelligent educators were humble former students at one time trying their very best to learn. Thank you for the reply -- it is surely very much appreciated by all who are interested in keeping their Model A's running.

07-31-2013, 04:22 PM	#14
TDO Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Enterprise, WV. Posts: 460	Re: Backfiring I agree with the others ,go back to the original points and condenser. the modern points and condenser is just a head ache.

08-02-2013, 05:54 AM	#15
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Backfiring Well good. It just goes to show that most electrical problems are fuel related and most fuel problems are electrical in nature. I think the newer modern upper plates[within the last 10 years or so] are pretty good, the problem has been fixed. While I too prefer original, the modern plate has been trouble-free as long as the 'good' points/condenser are used.

08-04-2013, 04:14 PM	#16
jwinterstein Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Edgewood Illinois Posts: 12	Re: Backfiring Hi all, I still have the "modern" points and condenser but I went to NAPA and purchased the Ford 1970 points and condenser for the V8 and also got a new rotor. With the new fuel filter (also from NAPA) and one in reserve, I believe I am pretty good to go. When I first got the car, the first time I drove it for about 4 miles, it overheated. I did have a "loose fan" - someone had not tightened the nut down and I thought it was the front bearing. I put in a new sealed bearing pump (looks just like the original), added a 160 degree thermostat in the top hose (which I changed) and added a bottle of "wetter water" and since then no overheating. If it happens again, it will be a re-core of the radiator.