The Ford Barn

Tacoma Bob · 08-24-2010, 04:43 PM

The day I brought our car home I fired it up for Miss Wilma. Got down to pucketa-pucketa and asked will to close her eyes and think back to childhood at the county fair. Out here model motors ran every ride the fair had.

Mike V. Florida · 08-27-2010, 02:55 PM

Found this,

Bruce of MN · 08-28-2010, 05:53 AM

"I'm thinking while in flight the plane is rolled on it's back for a dive. This keeps the fuel on the bottom of the carb fuel bowl and no engine stalling. Now the Germans used fuel injection on the inverted V-12 cylinders and did not need to roll'em over. Just push the stick forward." I thought they rolled on their back so that the pilots could see the target better without having to peer around the front cowling?

Ken Ehrenhofer · 08-28-2010, 09:04 AM

I am currently running an ongoing article in the Model A News entitled "Ford Industrial Engines". I hope some of you have enjoyed it. It is an ongoing article (as space allows) and will continue to feature some of these Model A Engine applications. Please send me any pictures or info you might have on Ford applications such as Tractor/marine /wood saw/air compressor/etc.etc. I have several more to run but if we can keep this going it should make for good reading in the Model A News. I even have one showing a engine used in a bread sllicing machine. Please keep the info coming......
Thanks,
Ken

Hank · 08-21-2012, 08:19 PM

Update on the marine engine. Floral City A's has acquired the engine and we are going to get it to the Model A Museum at the Gilmore where it belongs. It is going to the sandblaster tomorrow. We have some things that need to be answered and posters have info on the thread. I would like to see some detailed pictures etc. Thanks for your help.

Hank

Richard Wilson · 08-22-2012, 07:56 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank

Update on the marine engine. Floral City A's has acquired the engine and we are going to get it to the Model A Museum at the Gilmore where it belongs. It is going to the sandblaster tomorrow. We have some things that need to be answered and posters have info on the thread. I would like to see some detailed pictures etc. Thanks for your help.

Hank

That a great ideal Hank and the Floral City A's! Ken Ehrenhoffer and the Smith Motor Compressor Club are restoring a compressor for the MAFFI Museum. All Model A'ers and clubs need to get behind the museum project!

Hotrodfil · 08-22-2012, 06:00 PM

That exhaust manifold? I seem to have one similar exept the inlet is cast in...

Bruce of MN · 08-22-2012, 07:12 PM

I thought they rolled over to get a clear view of the target that wasn't blocked by the cowling.

cadair002 · 03-25-2013, 04:48 PM

I have a Model A Marine engine complete with water jackets, transmission and gear shift. Everything equipped to drop into a boat. Is it worth more than say a regular Model A Engine, and did Ford make these marine engines or were they conversionjs?

400A-64 · 03-25-2013, 05:06 PM

During WWII the US Navy used Model A marine conversons as bilge pumps on many ships. A friend of mine was able to obtain two of them.This was 30-+ years ago. I will never forget the sound of that engine after converting it for use in his car!! The engine was NOS never run while the property of USN. Because of being in storage for so long... the rings,valves and valve springs were replaced for new ones. A NEW engine that has never had water( so no rusting) with all factory specs was wonderfully QUIET!!!
Bruce Davis

Joe K · 03-25-2013, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rogers

Actually this is more like what I might use, http://www.harborfreight.com/engines...ead-45416.html . I figure at 3 to 1 the RPM's would be right run directly off the flywheel.

Actually, you might do better to do a direct connect to one of the ST Generator Heads. These turn at 1800 RPM which is a pretty good fit with the Model A engine.

Shortly, (Friday actually) I'll be heading north from Florida and I'm going to pick up my 10KW ST generator head from Central Georgia Generator. This his Ebay web location and the 10KW head. http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-KW-ST-Gen...item35c4e3deb3

Mine I'm actually going to power using a VW diesel engine (another good match) direct connected. The connection requires a Lovejoy type coupling (which is nearly $100 all by itself) but does away with breaking belts - AND you get the advantage and life of 1800 4 pole generator.

The VW engine coupled to an ST is discussed at http://www.utterpower.com/vw-diesel-generator/
and a pix from one the site links below...

Joe K

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 03-26-2013, 09:01 AM

Joe, don't you think 1800 RPM for a Model A engine is a bit much for obtaining any type of fuel economy? Maybe not as much for a VW diesel? I see where the necessary horsepower rating to make 10k is about 15-20 horses. I would think a Model-A engine with a good cam (one that makes torque like it should) could easily make enough power at 900-1000 RPM to satisfy the generator's Hp and torque requirements ...and at that speed it could still get "decent" fuel economy.

I think it has been noted here in the past that compressors like what you have typically use 3-4 gallons an hour when working/cycling at speed. If one could build a generator to use a gallon an hour, the novelty might be a little easier on the wallet! On the other hand, maybe one could be fueled with a wood gasifier??

Joe K · 03-26-2013, 09:21 AM

You may be correct, but IIRC, the Model A is about 2200 RPM at roughly 50 mph, which would (likely) put the top of it's efficiency curve about 1600 or 40 mph?

Think of driving the car at about 43 mph as equivalent to synchronous speed?

I don't have the ratios at my fingertips here so would appreciate a check.

Still, synchronous service is a bit tough on an engine. It can be CONSTANT loading at full output - loading which almost never happens except in acceleration in an automobile. Most engines in modern automobiles loaf along at less than 1/4 their maximum output at any given speed.

Belts work. In fact, before settling on the 1800 ST generator head I briefly considered going with a serpentine belt to the Harbor Freight 10kw machine (which is actually marketing upgraded from 7.2 kw in advertising hubris.) This much as the Listeroid people have done. Their engines (no longer available except as do-it-yourself parts thanks to your EPA) come "pre-grooved" to accept a serpentine belt and rotate at up to 850 rpm. (depending on horsepower.)

Whatever the motive power direct connected HAS to be more reliable than belt connected though. As was found out in central station practice early in the 20th century.

Joe K

denis4x4 · 03-26-2013, 09:28 AM

Not many people are aware that Chris Smith and Henry Ford were good friends, Custom Chris-Crafts were the boats of choice by Detroit auto executives. The Dodge Brothers built some neat runabouts in the early twenties. I had a 1942 Chris-Craft 14' Deluxe Runabout with a Chrysler marine engine. It also used a Model A two-tooth steering box. It's my understanding that these steering boxes are very desirable as they were never really used all that much.

BTW, after restoring a Chris-Craft, the Model A hobby is downright inexpensive!

BrianBurkert · 03-26-2013, 09:30 AM

It looks like this marine engine is now housed in the MAFFI museum. Great job!

P.S. · 03-26-2013, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denis4x4

BTW, after restoring a Chris-Craft, the Model A hobby is downright inexpensive!

You got THAT right!

I had a 26 foot Chris Craft for nearly 10 years. Had the C.C. 283 V8 in it with the velvet glide transmission (and it was like velvet too). Was a great boat!! Alas, the expense and hassle began to tip the fun-to-cost ratio in the other direction.

Major downside to an all-varnish work of art on the water: Getting water spots all over the deck. It's like leaving lake or sea water on your antique coffee table.

The advantage to a Model A is you never have to worry about getting that phone call from the marina harbormaster saying your boat is taking on water in the slip, might want to get out here quickly...

Dan/Kzo · 03-26-2013, 03:12 PM

Go to this link http://www.maffi.org/My_Homepage_Files/jerryPicts.htm and click on picture #10 to see Roger next to the marine display motor the day he delivered it. while your at it, browse on the recent pics that were taken during the Museum work weekends.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 03-26-2013, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe K

You may be correct, but IIRC, the Model A is about 2200 RPM at roughly 50 mph, which would (likely) put the top of it's efficiency curve about 1600 or 40 mph?

Think of driving the car at about 43 mph as equivalent to synchronous speed?

I don't have the ratios at my fingertips here so would appreciate a check.

Still, synchronous service is a bit tough on an engine. It can be CONSTANT loading at full output - loading which almost never happens except in acceleration in an automobile. Most engines in modern automobiles loaf along at less than 1/4 their maximum output at any given speed.

Belts work. In fact, before settling on the 1800 ST generator head I briefly considered going with a serpentine belt to the Harbor Freight 10kw machine (which is actually marketing upgraded from 7.2 kw in advertising hubris.) This much as the Listeroid people have done. Their engines (no longer available except as do-it-yourself parts thanks to your EPA) come "pre-grooved" to accept a serpentine belt and rotate at up to 850 rpm. (depending on horsepower.)

Whatever the motive power direct connected HAS to be more reliable than belt connected though. As was found out in central station practice early in the 20th century.

Joe K

Actually, below is a chart that came off of Dennie Piranio's website showing what he lists as a stock engine. It kinda confirms that the peak torque is in the 900-1000 RPM range, ...and even at that speed, the engine is producing WAY more than the necessary 15-20 horsepower to pull the generator.

With regard to belts & efficiency, I will yield to your expertise but if I recall when this topic was originally discussed, the intent of building one of these A-powered units was just for an occasional emergency stand-by unit that would see limited useage and be done on a very small budget. Personally I would prefer to use two Honda eU2000 generators either in tandem or separately due to the initial purchase costs, the operating costs, and the versatility of having two units. With the two units producing 30 amps simultaniously, I feel this gives me more than enough power for emergency situations.

.

Joe K · 03-26-2013, 04:34 PM

I haven't seen the chart above - very interesting. Too bad he doesn't give specific fuel consumption which could be related back to efficiency.

Anyway, thanks!

Joe K

Tom Wesenberg · 03-26-2013, 05:18 PM

For standby power I have a Honda EU 1000 and get by just fine. Actually I get by fine with my older Honda 650 watt generator. It will handle the freezer, refrigerator, TV and a few lights, and the sump pump. It won't run the circulating hot water pump on the furnace, but so far any outages have happened in warmer weather.

08-24-2010, 04:43 PM	#21
Tacoma Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 1,025	Re: Model A Marine Engine The day I brought our car home I fired it up for Miss Wilma. Got down to pucketa-pucketa and asked will to close her eyes and think back to childhood at the county fair. Out here model motors ran every ride the fair had.

08-28-2010, 05:53 AM	#23
Bruce of MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: VA Posts: 1,410	Re: Model A Marine Engine "I'm thinking while in flight the plane is rolled on it's back for a dive. This keeps the fuel on the bottom of the carb fuel bowl and no engine stalling. Now the Germans used fuel injection on the inverted V-12 cylinders and did not need to roll'em over. Just push the stick forward." I thought they rolled on their back so that the pilots could see the target better without having to peer around the front cowling?

08-28-2010, 09:04 AM	#24
Ken Ehrenhofer Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Woodstock, Illinois Posts: 597	Re: Model A Marine Engine I am currently running an ongoing article in the Model A News entitled "Ford Industrial Engines". I hope some of you have enjoyed it. It is an ongoing article (as space allows) and will continue to feature some of these Model A Engine applications. Please send me any pictures or info you might have on Ford applications such as Tractor/marine /wood saw/air compressor/etc.etc. I have several more to run but if we can keep this going it should make for good reading in the Model A News. I even have one showing a engine used in a bread sllicing machine. Please keep the info coming...... Thanks, Ken

08-21-2012, 08:19 PM	#25
Hank Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Carleton Michigan Posts: 34	Re: Model A Marine Engine Update on the marine engine. Floral City A's has acquired the engine and we are going to get it to the Model A Museum at the Gilmore where it belongs. It is going to the sandblaster tomorrow. We have some things that need to be answered and posters have info on the thread. I would like to see some detailed pictures etc. Thanks for your help. Hank

08-22-2012, 06:00 PM	#27
Hotrodfil Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Norfolk UK Posts: 213	Re: Model A Marine Engine That exhaust manifold? I seem to have one similar exept the inlet is cast in...

08-22-2012, 07:12 PM	#28
Bruce of MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: VA Posts: 1,410	Re: Model A Marine Engine I thought they rolled over to get a clear view of the target that wasn't blocked by the cowling.

03-25-2013, 04:48 PM	#29
cadair002 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: St. Petersburg, Florida Posts: 2	Re: Model A Marine Engine I have a Model A Marine engine complete with water jackets, transmission and gear shift. Everything equipped to drop into a boat. Is it worth more than say a regular Model A Engine, and did Ford make these marine engines or were they conversionjs?

03-25-2013, 05:06 PM	#30
400A-64 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Grass Valley,CA Posts: 295	Re: Model A Marine Engine During WWII the US Navy used Model A marine conversons as bilge pumps on many ships. A friend of mine was able to obtain two of them.This was 30-+ years ago. I will never forget the sound of that engine after converting it for use in his car!! The engine was NOS never run while the property of USN. Because of being in storage for so long... the rings,valves and valve springs were replaced for new ones. A NEW engine that has never had water( so no rusting) with all factory specs was wonderfully QUIET!!! Bruce Davis Last edited by 400A-64; 03-25-2013 at 05:08 PM. Reason: sp

03-26-2013, 09:01 AM	#32
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,508	Re: Model A Marine Engine Joe, don't you think 1800 RPM for a Model A engine is a bit much for obtaining any type of fuel economy? Maybe not as much for a VW diesel? I see where the necessary horsepower rating to make 10k is about 15-20 horses. I would think a Model-A engine with a good cam (one that makes torque like it should) could easily make enough power at 900-1000 RPM to satisfy the generator's Hp and torque requirements ...and at that speed it could still get "decent" fuel economy. I think it has been noted here in the past that compressors like what you have typically use 3-4 gallons an hour when working/cycling at speed. If one could build a generator to use a gallon an hour, the novelty might be a little easier on the wallet! On the other hand, maybe one could be fueled with a wood gasifier?? __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

03-26-2013, 09:21 AM	#33
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Model A Marine Engine You may be correct, but IIRC, the Model A is about 2200 RPM at roughly 50 mph, which would (likely) put the top of it's efficiency curve about 1600 or 40 mph? Think of driving the car at about 43 mph as equivalent to synchronous speed? I don't have the ratios at my fingertips here so would appreciate a check. Still, synchronous service is a bit tough on an engine. It can be CONSTANT loading at full output - loading which almost never happens except in acceleration in an automobile. Most engines in modern automobiles loaf along at less than 1/4 their maximum output at any given speed. Belts work. In fact, before settling on the 1800 ST generator head I briefly considered going with a serpentine belt to the Harbor Freight 10kw machine (which is actually marketing upgraded from 7.2 kw in advertising hubris.) This much as the Listeroid people have done. Their engines (no longer available except as do-it-yourself parts thanks to your EPA) come "pre-grooved" to accept a serpentine belt and rotate at up to 850 rpm. (depending on horsepower.) Whatever the motive power direct connected HAS to be more reliable than belt connected though. As was found out in central station practice early in the 20th century. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

03-26-2013, 09:30 AM	#35
BrianBurkert Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Fleetwood, PA Posts: 419	Re: Model A Marine Engine It looks like this marine engine is now housed in the MAFFI museum. Great job!

03-26-2013, 03:12 PM	#37
Dan/Kzo Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 80	Re: Model A Marine Engine Go to this link http://www.maffi.org/My_Homepage_Files/jerryPicts.htm and click on picture #10 to see Roger next to the marine display motor the day he delivered it. while your at it, browse on the recent pics that were taken during the Museum work weekends.

03-26-2013, 04:34 PM	#39
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Model A Marine Engine I haven't seen the chart above - very interesting. Too bad he doesn't give specific fuel consumption which could be related back to efficiency. Anyway, thanks! Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

03-26-2013, 05:18 PM	#40
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Model A Marine Engine For standby power I have a Honda EU 1000 and get by just fine. Actually I get by fine with my older Honda 650 watt generator. It will handle the freezer, refrigerator, TV and a few lights, and the sump pump. It won't run the circulating hot water pump on the furnace, but so far any outages have happened in warmer weather.