Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty

[Logan]

Well yesterday morning i tore apart my motor that has been giving me so much trouble from Taylor Made Motors in New Braunfels Texas. What i found was what i thought it was, piston slap. I took some photos, and i will share the link to the photo bucket album that i made for this motor. I for some reason can never get photos to upload on this website from my computer. If someone can take my photos from photo bucket and upload them to this thread, i give them full permission to do so.

Piston slap wasnt the only thing i found though. Some of the stuff in the motor, wasnt as it was suppose to be. James Taylor advertises that he only uses the top quality parts so that he can provide the best motor possible... Well what i had was a fiber timing gear, which is okay but not something you want in a motor you plan on driving across country in. He advertises that he installs aluminum timing gears, but i was told that i was getting a bronze gear because he liked those more at the time my engine was being built. I was also told several several times that he instals the new High pressure oil pumps in his motors. He wanted to be sure that all his motors had sufficient oil at all rpms. I can not physically prove that it was suppose to have a high pressure pump though. Because this was only told to me from him over conversations on the phone. He said he didnt raise his prices when he started using these pumps, because he felt like he didnt want to charge more, and by installing these pumps he was taking $200 out of his profit to ensure the quality of his motor. Well what i got was a stock rebuilt oil pump. Which works fine, but i expected to open it up and find one of the new pumps like i was told i was going to get.

As far as the bearings, some looked okay, and some i am concerned about. The rear main bearing has some weird pitting in it, and it doesnt seem to have a normal wear pattern. Some of the engine builders on here can take a look at it and tell me what they think. Also another thing i thought was kind of weird was the fact that there were no shims in this motor anywhere. The bearings that were used were from AER in skokie. I'm not sure if there are no shims because the bearings can come out, and be replaced with different sizes to compensate for wear, or if he just simply felt like building a motor with no shims in it.

This piston that failed was scared pretty badly. About the worst that i had ever seen. the piston pretty well fell out of the block without hardly any pushing on my part to force it out. when i took the piston and rod out, i held the piston and rod parallel to the floor, and the rod wouldnt fall with gravity if that makes sense. In order for the rod to move i had to forcibly flick my wrist as hard as i could, and the rod would fall about half way, then i would flick it again, and it would fall the rest of the way. also the wristpin had no side to side movements. it was frozen in place. I havent taken the pistons off the rods yet, but the wrist pin on piston 3 is as purple as it can get. Another thing that kind of concerns me is all the rods were discolored and some what purple by the wrist pins. I dont know if this is normal for these rods, since they are brand new, and made of a different material from originals. This is the first time ive messed with a motor using these rods, and AER bearings. So im not real sure of how everything is "suppose" to look after some wear and tear. I'm afraid that all the wristpin fits were to tight, and this is what is causing the discoloring in the rods.

As far as the rest of the motor, it was about as i expected. There was Gasket maker/sealer in every nook and cranny you could imagine. The valve chamber cover had a blob of the gasket maker about 3 inches long and probable 2 inches wide. Im not sure why there is a big blob of it in there, because it doesnt seem to have a crack. Also 2 of the 3 ears holding the threaded part for the oil return tube were cracked from over tightening the bolt. I'm one of those people who likes to use as little gasket maker/sealer as possible so that it doesnt get into the oil passages and clog them up. I also removed all the head studs with my fingers with the head still on the block. I know this is "okay" but i would feel more comfortable with the head studs snug in the block rather than loose. The camshaft also had some rust on it. Which pretty much just shows that it was sitting out for some time. And i'm pretty sure everyone will agree that there shouldnt be any rust inside a motor at all.

But thats pretty much it, i'm sure im forgetting some stuff but here is the link to the pictures. Like i said, if someone can take them and post them on this thread, i would appreciate it. I'm 20 years old, and i must have been playing with model a's to much growing up, because i understand less about computers than just about anyone i know. Anyways, all thats left is to get all the machine work checked, have the cylinders rebored, and i guess put it back together and hope it last longer than the first time... all of 1500 miles this past time after it lost piston #3 the first go around. The first time piston #3 failed was at about 200 miles on the motor.

Here is the link: just copy and paste into your website bar. http://s1317.photobucket.com/user/Lo...glass/library/

[700rpm]

Your photos have to be less than 575k each. jpgs work best.

[Joe K]

Sorta looks like it got warm.



Use the address under "Direct" Click on it to copy directly to your clipboard. Image insertion using the quick reply (2nd icon from right) works.

Joe K

[zzlegend]

That piston,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well,,,,,,,, ,it looks rather beat.
Wish you well resolving this Logan.

[WTSHNN]

Teach you to fish...

Go to photobucket, hover over the thumbnail of the picture, a little star appears in the top right thumbnail. Click it, select "get links", copy the "Direct" link.

Come back to Fordbarn, click on the icon above the "Reply" part that looks like this...

Paste the link into the window that pops up. You'll get this and it is all done.



-Tim

[deuce5wndw]

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Logan, I think the pistons used are press fit instead of the floating pins and the blue on the rods is from heating them to press the pins in. Dale

[Gary in MN]

Here are a few more of your pictures. Gary in MNLogan's pics (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 2 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 3 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 4 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 5 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 6 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 7 (Medium).jpg

[Gary in MN]

And a few more pictures. Gary in MN

Logan's pics 8 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 9 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 10 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 11 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 12 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 13 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 15 (Medium).jpg

[Gary in MN]

This should be all of them. Gary In MN.

Logan's pics 14 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 16 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 17 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 18 (Medium).jpg

[Ed H.]

Certainly troubling when you put your trust and money into someone only to find out it was the wrong decision.
I hope this issue can be resolved without a hassle.
Wishing you good luck.

[James Rogers]

Insert motors are always built without shims just like a modern engine. The blue on the top of the rods is from the rod heater they used to install them. As for the piston, I will reserve an opinion on that till later. I will say I have seen this 3 other times and can probably tell you what happened. The bearings look pretty good for inserts and if you tear down a rebuilt 350 chevy with 500 miles on it, the bearings will look much like these.

[James Rogers]

I believe you need to have someone look at this motor that knows how inserted motors are done and knows about engines in general. As far as this "he said, she said", if you don't have his comments on paper and it signed BY HIM, these comments are moot. I don't believe, from your comments here, you know much about how an inserted engine is done and need some experienced help with eyes on suggestions. No matter what kind of guarantee you may have gotten from him, it is over now since you dismantled the engine without his consent.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

I believe you need to have someone look at this motor that knows how inserted motors are done and knows about engines in general. As far as this "he said, she said", if you don't have his comments on paper and it signed BY HIM, these comments are moot. I don't believe, from your comments here, you know much about how an inserted engine is done and need some experienced help with eyes on suggestions. No matter what kind of guarantee you may have gotten from him, it is over now since you dismantled the engine without his consent.

I've done plenty of motor work before, just never any with this style of rod and insert. Although i am by no means an "expert" in the motor field. And trust me when I say, I voided no warranty by taking this apart because there is no warranty with his motors. He advertises a warranty, and even told me "as long as you keep oil and water in it I will warranty it for life". But he wouldnt warranty it the first time the piston failed. So after it did it a second time, I didn't even call him. Not to mention he's just a pain in the butt do business with, he doesn't want to do anything on any type of timeline. Just when he's good and ready to do it. I'm going to have all of the machine work checked by a guy here in Texas, and have him re-bore the cylinders and then I'll get new pistons for it. Then put it together again, and hopefully it last longer than it has the last two times. The reason I posted these pictures were because people asked for them once I took it apart. If anybody wants to know the story behind this thread. They can search the motor builders name in the search option above and find my thread from last week.

[Bob C]

Are those Chevy pistons?

Bob

[columbiA]

It appears the pistons were fitted with not enough clearance & the bores picked up metal from the pistons.I dont think the cyls are scored but just need the aluminum removed & the cyls honed to give correct clearance for new pistons.In my opinion,a properly rebuilt stock engine makes a great "touring" engine.My stock,except for 5.9 head 33 B engine still runs the original babbit & has been a great long distance driver.

[40 Deluxe]

I'd say the piston damage was caused by a seized wrist pin. This causes the rod to jam the piston into the cylinder wall with high force, squeezing out the oil film and scoring the piston. I've seen this on late model engines where the pin was either too tight or assembled dry or sat a long time before being started. It takes some running time before any oil is splashed onto the pin area and finds its way into pin bore.

[dumb person]

Piston pins looked tight. If you are worried about the cylinder walls getting thin, i honed cylinders worse than that in motorcycles and one car. Not picture perfect but it works ok for me.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

I'd say the piston damage was caused by a seized wrist pin.

Originally Posted by dumb person

Piston pins looked tight. If you are worried about the cylinder walls getting thin, i honed cylinders worse than that in motorcycles and one car. Not picture perfect but it works ok for me.

How are you guys determining this?

.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Are those Chevy pistons?

Bob

Yes

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Are those Chevy pistons?

Bob

Not any more!!

[Logan]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Not any more!!

I got a good chuckle at this

[d.j. moordigian]

I'm with James and Brent on the the rods and pins. Also, you need to find a
qualified engine builder...some of this mess could be your fault.

From the quick look that I did, the engine was assembled dirty....trash in the
bearings. Also, whats with the Helicols in the main bearing bulk heads??
No through bolts?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

I'm with James and Brent on the the rods and pins. Also, you need to find a
qualified engine builder...some of this mess could be your fault.

From the quick look that I did, the engine was assembled dirty....trash in the
bearings. Also, whats with the Helicols in the main bearing bulk heads??
No through bolts?

Dudley, please consider this engine was run for XXX amount of miles with galled aluminum on the walls. The "dirt" or "trash" you see likely has been scraped off by the rings and knocked into the pan where it was picked up by the pump or rod dippers and thus circulated into the oil. This could be confirmed by looking in oil galleys, main bearing tubes, and imbedded into the oil pump gears.

Also, the thread inserts into the main webs is done as a way to use a stronger grade of bolt to clamp the main cap instead of using an original bolt. I have seen this used effectively in the past on other engines. This engine was never intended to be a stock-type rebuild.

[Fordors]

In the initial post Logan mentioned that a rod would not drop when a piston/rod assembly was held parallel to the floor. Sounds to me that the problem stemmed from dry wrist pins at assembly. Without knowing anything about the pistons and wrist pins used if the pins were in the pistons right out of the box then I would expect that thumb pressure would be enough to push a pin from a pin bore. If gages are available I'd look for .0002-.00025 clearance in a new wrist pin bore.
There is a lot of blue coloration to the rods, looks to be much more than necessary to install the wrist pins. I think the pins were never lubed prior to firing the engine and there was almost immediate galling of the pins in the pin bores. The heat generated was transferred to the pin bosses and then to the skirts resulting in the aluminum deposits on the cylinder walls. Logan mentioned a pin had been hot enough to turn purple, again indicating to me that much heat was generated from galling.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

There are only 4 things that will take out pistons, some stated already.

To tight of fit.

Wrist pin to tight a fit.

Top side of the piston hitting the head on the edge above the ring, and that gets the ball rolling. When it is on the side like that, you would never hear it. But you can see it taken apart.

Antifreeze on the cylinder wall, and that doesn't take to long.



The pitting in your bearings, that is all the Aluminum off the pistons.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

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You would have to mic the pistons, and bore to determine if the pistons were to tight first. Only the pins that were still free are the ones that you could mic for clearance of those.

The wrist pins can take out the pistons, or the pistons can take out the wrist pins.

As far as wrist pin clearance, I can only comment on stock Model A rods, but the wrist pins should be fit with .000-50 thousandths clearance. at .001-00 the bushing are all ready wore out.

Ford Spec's on wrist pin clearance is .000-30 to .000-50, but 1/2 thousandths is by far the best.

[Joe K]

IIRC, the field expedient rule of thumb on new wrist pin fitting was if you could hold the rod out straight (horizontal) and give it a little push, (or a jiggle) it would drop to the bottom of travel by its own weight without stopping.

Logan's description of how tight it was seemed incorrect (and prone to problems) although we don't know if he's talking about the other three probably o.k. rods or the one that seized.

Joe K

[George Miller]

My 2 cents. It looks like it got real hot to me. That is a lot of build up on the cylinder walls. I bet that it was 3and 4 that got the build up.

After looking closer, I think maybe that piston was not getting oil. Looks like it was running dry. That is why I was thinking it got hot. Also the one main was running dry. I can see what looks like copper, like it was worn through the bearing metal, It also looked dry.

[Russ/40]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Ford Spec's on wrist pin clearance is .000-30 to .000-50, but 1/2 thousandths is by far the best.

I don't understand your way of posting measurements?
Are you saying .0003 to .0005"?

[George Miller]

One other thing if you use Chev 283 piston, they have off set for the wrist pins built in to them. The Model A motor already has a lot of off set. They work the best if you put them in with the front of the piston to the rear.You will end up with the right amount of off set. If you don't do that they will have a lot of load on the thrust side of the piston. That will cut your power and could cause scoring.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

I don't understand your way of posting measurements?
Are you saying .0003 to .0005"?

Yes Russ, I work with these kind of Mic readings every day, all day long.

The reason for it is, in many years gone by, if I write down say,

3.0045, or 3.00450, when I glance at the numbers, I have mistaken the same numbers for 3.045, or 3.0450, and so on.

If I write them as 3.004-5, or as I normally do 3.004-50, I don't mix the true figures up, and I can tell at a glance what the true number is, with out making a mistakes on the tenths.

I am not saying that anybody should do this, its just me, and I think you had it figured out anyway.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

I'm with James and Brent on the the rods and pins. Also, you need to find a
qualified engine builder...some of this mess could be your fault.

From the quick look that I did, the engine was assembled dirty....trash in the
bearings. Also, whats with the Helicols in the main bearing bulk heads??
No through bolts?

Dudley, I think you are correct but I believe instead of some it is most.

[d.j. moordigian]

I consider this another problem...too what you have already.

If you Helicol the mains as in this block.....what registers the main caps? Nothing!
In the original set-up the bolt shank does it....very little cap movement

In my "B" I have billet main caps with high dollar bolts, it is set-up for inserts.
It also has hollow dowels around each main bolt too register the cap. This equals
repeatability.

If you look through Logan's photobucket and double click too super enlarge his
engine gives you a better idea of what happened. Only one piston got backsided,
that kinda eliminates a heating problem. It wasn't down the center of the skirt,
but more on the sides(more material too expand) and no place to go. It's not
a pin problem at this point.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Gary in MN

This should be all of them. Gary In MN.

Attachment 135012

Attachment 135013

Attachment 135014

Attachment 135015

That one main bearing looks like it was not getting much oil. That is not a high pressure pump in the picture.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Was it only one piston that was bad? I thought all 4 were pictured as bad.

I'd still like to see pictures of the strange shape of the counterweights.

[Kahuna]

D J.
How can you say this or some of this may be his fault??
If the builder assembled the engine, where or how can you determine that Logan /Jordan had any fault here at all?
Huh?

[Phil]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

D J.
How can you say this or some of this may be his fault??
If the builder assembled the engine, where or how can you determine that Logan /Jordan had any fault here at all?
Huh?

I had the same question.

[jcheshire31]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

D J.
How can you say this or some of this may be his fault??
If the builder assembled the engine, where or how can you determine that Logan /Jordan had any fault here at all?
Huh?

Because all we are is young and stupid. Don't you know that by now? Logan could've just went ahead and put a small block Chevy in it for little under 2 grand, but he dumped $4500 and a lot of faith into an engine builder so he could keep his grandpa's prized possension just like it was before he passed. (and I personally know he'd never do that anyways) Is it really that terrible that he is upset that he got a bad motor TWICE? The first time he never mentioned any names, to give him a second chance, even though he had EVERY right to from all of the stuff the builder tried to screw him out of. I've noticed before Logan ever even mentioned a word about the motor, people always constantly trying to prove him, and Jordan wrong, even when they weren't. I guess that's just what you get when people hide behind the internet. Some of the comments I've seen are absolutely ridiculous. Cussing at a 20 year old over the internet? You look really cool. No model a people I have ever met have acted the like the big bunch 5 year old I've seen lately. Maybe I should just chop mine up and make a hot rod so I don't have to deal with these arrogant people anymore.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

D J.
How can you say this or some of this may be his fault??
If the builder assembled the engine, where or how can you determine that Logan /Jordan had any fault here at all?
Huh?

I'm not saying this is what happened but, what if someone ran an engine hard at a constant high RPM like one would on a highway before everything was broken in? Would the engine fail in the same way this one did? When my engine was done years ago I was warned not to drive above 45 and to vary the speed of the engine for the first couple of hundred miles. I was also told to change the oil a couple of times during that break in period. Maybe insert engines are different than poured engines but I think a hard ride before a proper break in "could" cause what we see here.

Once again I'm not saying he did this, only that I was warned about it in the past.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

I'm not saying this is what happened but, what if someone ran an engine hard at a constant high RPM like one would on a highway before everything was broken in? Would the engine fail in the same way this one did? When my engine was done years ago I was warned not to drive above 45 and to vary the speed of the engine for the first couple of hundred miles. I was also told to change the oil a couple of times during that break in period. Maybe insert engines are different than poured engines but I think a hard ride before a proper break in "could" cause what we see here.

Once again I'm not saying he did this, only that I was warned about it in the past.

The car is at Logan's house so I can't validate with the book we keep all the mileage in, but I would guess it had 1,500-2000 miles on it. I would assume it's well broken in by then. We had gone on several trips in it.

I wouldn't think that it would matter if it had inserts or babbit bearings. In this case, the bearings weren't the problem. It was the piston.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Jordan

The car is at Logan's house so I can't validate with the book we keep all the mileage in, but I would guess it had 1,500-2000 miles on it. I would assume it's well broken in by then. We had gone on several trips in it.

I wouldn't think that it would matter if it had inserts or babbit bearings. In this case, the bearings weren't the problem. It was the piston.

Well broken in by 1500 miles!!!

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

How are you guys determining this?

.

Lawn mowers with similar problems & the part where to rod does not move very far under its own weight, i am not an expert on those though, this is the internet afterall so it would be hard to give an accurate diagnosis but yeah.... & all the sloppy pins in worn out engines i had over the years might make me bias.

[Steve Wastler]

Originally Posted by jcheshire31

Maybe I should just chop mine up and make a hot rod so I don't have to deal with these arrogant people anymore.

Hey, chop away, I'll take the undercarriage!!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Steve Wastler

Hey, chop away, I'll take the undercarriage!!

Wow, this just keeps getting uglier!!


.

[Steve Wastler]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Wow, this just keeps getting uglier!!


.

Yes, quite, I was not going to post about all this drama. I do get tired of 'the age thing' thrown around here by misdirected kids. Less originals will undoubtedly make the rest worth more! I will always take the cast off original parts.

[jkelsh]

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No need to cut up any good cars! It sounds like like multiple problems occurred and it would be impossible to blame any single person. As Henry Ford said "don't find fault, find a remedy" If the engine has to be rebuilt again isn't it worth the money to get the car back on the road? It's not worth fighting over.

[Kurt in NJ]

To me it looks like that cylinder has a sleeve ---not that it is the cause of the problem ,but that it has to be considered in working on a solution --it may not be good to bore it larger because the sleeve can get too thin although most likely removing the deposited piston and honing (with rigid hone not glaze breaker or dingle berry hone)can fix that bore.

There doesn't look to be signs of heating at the wristpin, I doubt that is the root cause, that piston got distorted by the heating of the skirt, the wristpin will not fit as it was assembled ---it will be hard to know what clearances it was assembled with, although comparing the bore size with the other bores can give clues

Measure the bores, top middle and bottom, if you don't have proper measuring tools you can get an idea with a piston ring by measuring the end gap, the changes in bore size are about 1/3 the change in ring end gap.

Did you have an oil filter? --I remember it being mentioned in one of the posts, but I don't remember if it was installed

[Growley bear]

And the good news is that the con rod dipper tray has not been drilled.

Henry J. Kaiser said that problems are opportunities in work clothes.

Judge Joe or Judge Judy ??

I have been in the business for more years than I care to reveal. I once installed a factory long block into a car, took it for a road test and had a con rod force its way through the side of the block. These things happen and have happened since machinery has been around.
The way I handle it is to leave it alone for an undetermined amount of time and when I get back to it my thought processes are less clouded and then I can figure out the best way to handle it.
Chet

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

I'm with James and Brent on the the rods and pins. Also, you need to find a
qualified engine builder...some of this mess could be your fault.

From the quick look that I did, the engine was assembled dirty....trash in the
bearings. Also, whats with the Helicols in the main bearing bulk heads??
No through bolts?

Gezzz......this is the first time I had too reply to one of my own quotes.

Kahuna & Phil, Morning..
The engine builder, builds the engine...and in this case installs it in the
car. After that, the owner has control of the car.
Hopefully the builder is sharp enough to check the radiator, water pump
and the distributor.
How was the car driven??


To do that much damage to the piston, it didn't happen instantly.
It took time...the engine was "sagging"...working hard to compensate
for a "hole" that was tightening up. The water temp is going to go up.
The engine is going to "shake". It's a 4 cylinder engine....how much
harder does 3 holes have to compensate(work) for a stuck hole!

This all shows up in the main bearings in the photos. To bad no photos
of the rod bearings....odd?

Hope this helps you juveniles....

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Dudley, also take into consideration this engine is reported to have 1,500 miles on it. Think about how long that is in terms of driving time. I would also assume this does not account for idling time or waiting at traffic lights or stop signs. If I recall correctly, the OP mentioned something about this engine being driven at 75mph. Driving this engine 1,500 miles at a "killer" speed of 75mph still would take 20 hours of operation to do. Process all of that for a moment or two!!!

.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Dudley, also take into consideration this engine is reported to have 1,500 miles on it. Think about how long that is in terms of driving time. I would also assume this does not account for idling time or waiting at traffic lights or stop signs. If I recall correctly, the OP mentioned something about this engine being driven at 75mph. Driving this engine 1,500 miles at a "killer" speed of 75mph still would take 20 hours of operation to do. Process all of that for a moment or two!!!

.

yes the engine builder drove it 75 mph on day one of a fresh rebuild. That's what he told us when we picked it up. We don't drive 75 mph.

[Purdy Swoft]

The way that I read it was that the engine builder bragged about running the car at 75 mph while testing. The owner actually thought that running the engine at 75 MPH before break in was not a good thing.

[Bob C]

[QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;676735]Wow, this just keeps getting uglier!!

If you look at your calendar you will see we had a FULL MOON recently, makes
people crazy.

Bob
.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The way that I read it was that the engine builder bragged about running the car at 75 mph while testing. The owner actually thought that running the engine at 75 MPH before break in was not a good thing.

you read it correctly.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The way that I read it was that the engine builder bragged about running the car at 75 mph while testing. The owner actually thought that running the engine at 75 MPH before break in was not a good thing.

I agree and that's the way I read it also. I'd be plenty upset with any builder that would do that to the car and to the engine.
I wouldn't even think of doing that to a well broke in engine.

I'm still wanting to see a picture of the odd shaped counterweights.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

Gezzz......this is the first time I had too reply to one of my own quotes.

Kahuna & Phil, Morning..
The engine builder, builds the engine...and in this case installs it in the
car. After that, the owner has control of the car.
Hopefully the builder is sharp enough to check the radiator, water pump
and the distributor.
How was the car driven??


To do that much damage to the piston, it didn't happen instantly.
It took time...the engine was "sagging"...working hard to compensate
for a "hole" that was tightening up. The water temp is going to go up.
The engine is going to "shake". It's a 4 cylinder engine....how much
harder does 3 holes have to compensate(work) for a stuck hole!

This all shows up in the main bearings in the photos. To bad no photos
of the rod bearings....odd?

Hope this helps you juveniles....

D.J.

When you have a melted pistion like that, it can go from good to bad in 30 seconds with out warning.

From no noise, to what you see.

We have had several engines come in like that from other builders, and the owners, all have there stories of how the engine acted, and stoped, and they are all about the same.

It just doesn't happen, you can always find the cause.

I have never used those kind of pistons, and don't intend to. But George gave a good clue to look for with the way you install them, and the wrist pin bosses.

[Purdy Swoft]

[QUOTE=Bob C;676906]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Wow, this just keeps getting uglier!!

If you look at your calendar you will see we had a FULL MOON recently, makes
people crazy.

Bob
.

I've got to agree!!! We saw the same sort of thing on the New project in my shop, thread . Same bullies involved.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I agree and that's the way I read it also. I'd be plenty upset with any builder that would do that to the car and to the engine.
I wouldn't even think of doing that to a well broke in engine.

I'm still wanting to see a picture of the odd shaped counterweights.

I keep thinking of the original break-in instructions from Ford, in the Model A era. 'The operator should not exceed 35 MPH for the first 500 miles' and that was even after they ran in the motors at the Rouge.

Some things should not be changed! 75MPH is plain nuts on a new Model A engine. That's just common sense.

[Fred]

If you want a Chevy engine & want to do 70-75 MPH in a model "A" with air condition, four speed trans, & high speed rear end , Call Rick Hendricks !!!..

[jcheshire31]

Originally Posted by Steve Wastler

Hey, chop away, I'll take the undercarriage!!

Sarcasm doesnt transfer well over the Internet. I couldn't ever bring myself to do that.

[d.j. moordigian]

George or Herm,

How much offset in the " cylinder bore center line to main bearing bore center line"
in an "A"?
Is the "B" the same? Also, which way....viewing the engine from the front? I would
think the crank to the right?

It will change the torque characteristic of the engine. Is that normal practice to
run the offset pistons to the front or the rear in an A with Chevy pistons, engine
builders?

I also don't think that is the cause for what we are looking at here tho.

[Steve Wastler]

Originally Posted by jcheshire31

Sarcasm doesnt transfer well over the Internet. I couldn't ever bring myself to do that.

It was not intended as sarcasm, this is not the first time this/a 'youngster' has threatened to 'chop it and make it a rod'. Albeit not my first choice for a nice car, I welcome the original parts when he/they decide to do so.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The way that I read it was that the engine builder bragged about running the car at 75 mph while testing. The owner actually thought that running the engine at 75 MPH before break in was not a good thing.

I guess that all depends on who someone is to believe. The engine builder told me emphatically that he never said that. The engine builder also told me that he would have never told anyone to treat any new engine that way. On the other hand, Logan said here that he did.



A point that has not been discussed regarding all the comments about wrist pins being too tight. These are Hypereutectic pistons that come with the wrist pins supposedly machined & fitted to the piston from the factory. The connecting rod is to be heated and the wrist pin is inserted into the rod for an interference fit. If the pins were indeed fitted at the factory, how does this play into the thought of wrist pins too tight?


Also one other thought regarding pistons too tight. It is reported this engine had a #4 piston failure early on due to overheating. The engine builder supposedly pulled the engine down under warranty and rebuilt the top-end of the engine only charging for parts (no labor or machine shop charges). Since 4 new pistons & rings were installed, and the cylinder walls (sleeves) had to honed again (to clean up the galling), a good argument could be a be made that the piston-to-bore clearance was well within spec. by the time the second honing was done. Thoughts on this??

.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

George or Herm,

How much offset in the " cylinder bore center line to main bearing bore center line"
in an "A"?
Is the "B" the same? Also, which way....viewing the engine from the front? I would
think the crank to the right?

It will change the torque characteristic of the engine. Is that normal practice to
run the offset pistons to the front or the rear in an A with Chevy pistons, engine
builders?

I also don't think that is the cause for what we are looking at here tho.

If my old memory is good. 1/8 on the A and not sure on the Chev it has been awhile since I check one. But I'm thinking 1/16