Fixed or Random National Meet Locations.

[RockHillWill]

I read a few posts in the Model A News cover discussion concerning the interest, or the lack of, hosting the National Meet in one location each year, specifically at French Lick, Indiana.

As a few of you may already know, I have been selected as the VP of MARC and as such, it my primary responsibility to seek out hosts for both the National Meet and the Membership meet. I have already been contacted by numerous folks regarding the recent change to remove the Fine Point trophy presentations from the last dinner, even changing the name from Awards Banquet to Farewell Dinner.

As regards the venues used to host the National Meet, part of the transfer of paperwork included two large carboard storage boxes of contacts and replies that the former VP had accumulated in his quest for obtaining a region to host an event. It was startling to review those 'conversatoions'. There were literally hundreds of request from the VP
asking for those to host an event. There were also a large number of replies that indicated their appreciation for being asked, and the most complete list of 'excuses' that I could have ever imagined. Also found were a large number of 'suggestions' as to how 'things should be changed', but NO offers to help facilitate those changes or to host a meet.

Bear with me here for a moment. I am 72 years old, and have lived a full life.I have experience lows in my life that I would not wish on my worst enemy, and enjoyed a few high points that few could dream of. I work with my hands. I have owned a number of auto tune up franchises in two states and had to deal with an enormous amount of customers during that time. I have spent 12 years as a machine designer working at other peoples thoughts and direction. I also spent 24 years in building and racing stock cars where I raced an average of 34 times a year. Each event required us to be in a different town in a different state for an average of four days. I have calculated that during the stint in racing alone, I have had a personal encounter with over 3.8 million folks. I share this only to illustrate that I have had been exposed to a multitude of life experiences with people, over an extended period of time. NONE of this has made me smart in any way, nor has it had any effect on my intellect, but what it has done is given me a pretty broad and unique perspective into how people think and interract with others. I am a poor purveyor of politically correctness, and I do ask for some allowances for my approach sometimes.

I said all that to say this: It has become somewhat easier to quickly determine if some one is a giver or a taker. Taking, complaining and apathy are very easy to do, especially from behind a computer screen. It takes little forthought for future consequences or the effect on others. Their conversations generally start with "what YOU should do". Givers on the otherhand will start conversations with "here's what WE can do", or words to that effect.

What I found from reviewing the old VP paperwork was a huge amount 'taker' comments and very little 'giver' comments, and that is the crux of the problem of having to gather a willingness for a region to host one of these events.

The folks responsible for French Lick were big enough 'givers' that they formed their own region just so that they could host a National Meet, because they are interested enough in the support of MARC and the entire Model A hobby.The French Lick location was not a random choice of location. The hosts went so far as to enter all the regions zip codes into a computer program to determine the geographical center of the MARC regions, therby providing accessibility to the maximum amount of attendees. The roads are most conducive to the Model A cars, as opposed to the multi-lane freeways associated with the Metro hotels. The facilities are first class. The answer for disdain of the National Meet being held in one location should be to offer to host a meet in your own location.

I applied for a position on the Board of Directors because over the years of my involvement in MARC, I have been helped by an enormous number of 'givers' most of which can be found on this site. Folks on this site have helped make it possible for me to have experiences in this hobby that I would not have thought possible. I felt that it was time to start thinking about how I might 'give back', and this is the manner that I have chosen.

As the title of this posts suggests, I am asking you folks to jump in here, and make suggestions at to what I might do to better serve the community in my capacity as MARC VP, as I seek hosts. I am asking for suggestions for improvements, appropriate complaints for past experiences, and any other comment that might result in an improvement in the National and/or Membership site selections. We have a scheduled BOD meeting this upcoming Monday and I am anxious to report any and all responses to this request.

Have a great day guys. It's 7:30 AM in the Carolinas and I am about to take my breakfast out to the picnic table in the front yard and watch the fish jump in the lake as the turtles meander up on the banks to get a mouthfull of the new cut grass. A large Blue Herron sits down at the entrance of the driveway, just waiting for the stray minnow or frog.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Will, thank you for all you doing!!

As one who is presently serving a 2nd term as a Board of Director of another national club, -and as someone whose family of four hosted & planned that club's annual meet here in my town, I believe I am very familiar with what Will is up against. I am one of those persons that IS in favor of holding the annual meet in one location each year in a place such as French Lick.

Adding to that, since I attended the 2010 Meet there, I know firsthand how well their staff treated us as guests, ...and I also know the layout of the property and how conducive it was for holding a Model-A venue there. When you compare a meet such as this to a venue such as the AACA Fall Meet held in Hershey, I think they can be very similar. There is more to Hershey than just walking around a huge parking lot looking at old car parts. By us returning each year, not only do we know the locations of our spaces each year, we also know where to find our long-distance friends' spaces. We also are familiar with our hotel rooms, and as such we know ahead of time the conditions and what necessities we need to bring to make our stay there more pleasant. Because my wife attends with me, from experience she knows her way to the Amish country to visit stores and special interest places. We have also learned where the nice restaurants are, -and the backroads on how to get there easily. These are all bonuses that a first-time Hershey attendee does not know, and really cannot know until they have attended that location several times. I feel the same could apply to the MARC Meet.


When you consider that MARC has some 7,000 members (??) and there will be about 350 cars in Lexington next week, it appears that only 5%(+/-) of the membership actually attends the Meet, ....so maybe the bigger question in all of this is defining exactly the purpose/intent of this Meet. Out of all the activities that are planned for the entire week at these Meets, the only thing I can think of that is truly affected by location is "sightseeing". My suggestion to that is take an alternate route each year to/from the meet where different sights are seen. I also feel certain there are plenty of neighboring towns and different places to visit around the resort where redundancy should not be a concern. And, as a possible alternative to someone not wanting to attend French Lick each year, they can travel to a Membership Meet which could still be held in a different location each year.

Thank you for your willingness to hear my thoughts, --and again, thank you for the time & dedication you and the other Board members are giving.

.

[John LaVoy]

I might suggest close to the Model A Museum.

[larrys40]

Will,

Many thanks for your service to MARC and its members... volunteers like you and all those who have presently and past volunteered for and held office are incredibly vital to success. I have thought about sending you a PM or just post a couple of my thoughts... but then this is a forum so I'm going to go ahead and post.. Right/wrong/indifferent, opinions are just that... I will preface to say that I joined our local region after turning 18... and my past friend/mentor Terry Oberer said "stick with me"... after one of the other members had said.. "Kid... you belong somewhere else... this isn't for you". How's that for driving youth away. Terry's friendship and words and my own motivation were enough to make me think I may outlast the other fellow... and I did! Anyway.. at 52 now 34 years later I can't have imagined my life otherwise without Model A's and the people behind them. It has been incredibly fulfilling, fun, adventurous, and rich in friendships I could never have imagined.

One of the adventures every year is deciding to go to the National meets.... as I'm also an early V8 enthusiast.... and Mafca member I usually can only afford time and money to attend one... possible two depending on where they are, what's gong on there... and time and cost involved.

We are hosting the 2014 Membership meet here in St. Louis. I have helped to Co-Chair Membership meets past here... and have certainly been involved with our national meet held in '88
. Yes, it was over 100 back then.. Some of you probably remember.

In my course of thoughts for attendance have taken my daughter, currently she's 17 but since born to some of the meets. Location and interest to see the sights and travel there is a key thing. The Smokey Mountain regional meets are great, sights to see and stuff to do..... The locations have to be of interest... and things to do. The downside I see to French Lick, having been there is I have already seen everything and done what is there..... Yes the hotel is nice and historic.. but that alone is not enough for me to want to spend "X" amount of dollars and time to come. If it was the Scenic Rockies in Colorado or the Smokey Mountain meets I feel the scenery and other attractions are much more plentiful than French Lick. I felt at the time that I'd been there once, might go back.. but wouldn't a 3rd time... so in understanding the national meets and the people who attend them... these are some of my thoughts:

1. most who attend national meets do so repetively, as it's usually the same crew in our region who do so.
2. They want to go to new places... the same place would most certainly reduce the chance of those going thus reducing attendance ( unless it was an incredible location)
3. The quality of events and plentiful amount it key. - Sorry, I didn't see that much in French Lick although it was a good meet. ('m talking about repetitive meets there)
4. Attractiveness to all, young and old... we have to attract younger members!!
we are just caretakers of these cars... passing them on to others as time goes on.. how cool is that! Hopefully they will have as much fun as I
5. affordability.. some of the meet registrations and hotel costs are too much
6. seminars, activies, etc...

Without getting lengthy I would rather the meets be in different locations for some of the reasons above. The same meet every year in the same place does not entice me to go.. If the local regions are having trouble volunteering or are feeling overwhelmed about hosting one... maybe we need a national meet task force or something to assist and guide. I know we used a hotel planner this time, no cost to us to help us with negotiation and contract with the facility.. I know Jeff Buckley has made this known to the powers to be... maybe a plus to those hosting future meets. Will, I noticed the request for "Board Candidates" in the recent Model A News. Have to admit I am contemplating throwing myself in the mix as I feel compelled and wish to do my part and have interest in the continued success and growth of the club ( read bring more youth in).

To do that we need interesting activities, affordable, good locations, and more reasons for people to attend than not. Hopefully simply said!

Will chat more if you wish.
Larry Shepard
St. Charles, MO

[Richard Wilson]

Thank you Will for all that you have done and are doing for our hobby! Your comment about "givers and takers" is spot on. You can see it even at the local club level where only 3 or 4 members are actually trying to move the club forward and the rest are just there to be entertained. Example, how many times do we read that a club reelects the same officers over and over, year after year? Heck, I was reelected a MARC region president 15 years in a row, even after trying to recruit a new person every year. That was in a club with between 30 and 40 families at the time.

I think 2014 and 2015 back to back will be a good test for a single permanent location for the national meet. I predict a significant drop off of attendance in 2015 but hope that I am wrong. Maybe someone could set up one of those fordbarn "good ideal - bad ideal" opinion polls to see what others think.

Here is my experience as a region president and after several trips to national meets for anyone interested. For example, I organized local club tours to the two Indianapolis MARC nationals and to the two Williamsburg MARC nationals. Each was about 1,100 miles round trip from Asheville and we all drove our mostly stock Model A's there and back.

In both cases the people that went on the first tour to each location did not/would not go on the second tour to the same location. This was not because there had been any problems with the tours, the locations or the meets. They were all great meets and the host clubs did a wonderful job. Their reason for not going on the second tour to the same national meet location was "we have already been there and done that". This was even with the second national meet about ten years after the first. A week spent at a national meet is pretty expensive for most people and that may be a factor in not wanting to go to the same location every year.

I think my former club members would be representative of the average Model A hobbyist. For me personally, and I am a big proponent of driving your Model A and being a member of the national clubs, I seriously doubt that I would bother to attend another meet in either location, Indy or Williamsburg. Twice to each location was enough, even for me.

While we are talking about national meets, the most frequent complaint I have heard over the last 30 years about the national meet, is that the national meet is held in late June - early July, the HOTTEST, not Model A friendly, time of the year. For example, on all four trips to Indianapolis and Williamsburg the day time temperature was over 100 degrees every day of each week. As the Model a owner population ages, extreme heat is becoming a deterrent for some.

Finding national meet sponsors and locations is going to be a growing problem in future years for both MARC and MAFCA and I am hopeful that a solution will be found. I for one, am glad that we have dedicated men like Will, Brent and thousands of others that are "givers" and not "takers" and are moving our hobby forward!

[Tacoma Bob]

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Well after crafting a comment it didn't show up. In any event I'm with Brent. A fixed location makes a lot of sense. Look at the motorcycle crowd..........Sturgis is still in Sturgis

[CarlG]

They are all too far for me anyway.

[700rpm]

I appreciate regional and national meets changing locations. It allows attendees to see different areas of the country, as well as how other clubs work. Also, as it is now, sometimes the meets are close to home, sometimes not, and the associated costs can be a factor in deciding whether to attend or not; it's good to keep in mind that not everyone has the same resources. And finally, it takes a lot of work (and money) to host a big meet, and if it is held in a single location every year (or every other year), there would be a significant potential for burnout.

Thank you for your work on this, Will, for considering other ways to do things and for asking advice. I may never get to a MARC meet, being a left-coaster, but I will be interested to see how MARC plans go forward.

[RockHillWill]

Gentlemen, I really appreciate the input to date. It has been sound and worth consideration.

Just random thoughts on my part:

Can anyone here guide me to a website that that shows US population density in a format that would allow 'zooming in' getting a closer look state by state.

Can anyone here provide a US temperature range for the year according to states or counties.

Can anyone here guide me to an average range of school closures for the summer and the dates for school beginnings, in the event it not the same all over the country.
In an effort to be able to account for youth attendance, weather and population considerations, we might want to consider the Membership Meet at the very beginning of the youth/summer and have the National meet at the very end of it, in various locations according to temperature and population density.

The MARC Constitution has established the time range for these meets to be held, and it looks like they may have accounted for the possibility of promoting youth attendance.

What is becoming abundantly clear is that ALL these issues become less of a problem if we could encourage more PARTICIPATION in both hosting and attending the meets. Most costs could be adjusted downward if they are spread over a wider attendance base. We would have more leverage with the hotels, etc.

As always, these are just random thoughts. Let me continue to hear from you folks.

[rons49]

How do the folks in the West Coast& BC feel about that? I can agree that if no one except one chapter ever volunteers, so be it. It's over 2000 miles to Indiana from S California, not to mention that running a National Meet can, if run properly, be a cash cow. Each year a predetermined section of the US & Canada should be offered first shot. If no response by a advertised date, then all offers can be considered. Regarding Hershey, The AACA National HQ runs that one... that is where the organization is located, just like La Hambra Ca is "home" to MAFCA. Keep all areas of the membership active ... float the meets.

[WTSHNN]

Will, I'll chime in later to discuss the meet topic but I must applaud you for actually reaching out to the Members, aka the people you "serve," and soliciting their opinions and feedback. I'm glad to see you're doing it through Fordbarn, obviously an important group of Model A'ers from a range of backgrounds (including members, non-members etc). It appeared that in the past being sworn in to the MARC board required an oath to not acknowledge Fordbarn's existence and to never post on the forum regarding issues pertaining to the hobby and the club.
-Tim

[Bruce_MO]

Lots of great comments, and thanks so much for asking for input. Like Larry (hi Larry...hope to see you Sunday for the ice cream social at our house), I'm also in the V8 Club and I like their meet format... regional meets most years, and a "Grand National" meet every 5 years in Dearborn. I really think French Lick is an awesome place, and I would probably go there year after year. But I do think it would penalize a lot of folks who are not close. I would think some sort of rotational approach, with a consolidated "World Meet" approach at French Lick or at the Model A Museum might get more overall attendance. I also love any meets in Dearborn because there's an incredible amount of Ford history to see, and the V8 club has done some really cool things with driving tours and visits that cannot be duplicated anywhere else.

By mixing things up a bit as the V8 club does, I find that my wife and family are more willing to incorporate a meet into a vacation to see a new and unexplored location, and we generally attend more meets over the long haul that way. If it was just at French Lick, I'm guessing that by year two or three, I'd be going solo and only for a couple days.

Just my 2 cents...

Bruce

[Scott NY]

I have made mention many times to the MARC Board that they might look at moving the dates. If they want to get the youth involved this is a must. Up here in the northeast our kids just got done with school yesterday, many times in the past the meet was held on the week that our kids have their finals. This has prohibited me from bringing my family to these meets...just a thought

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by rons49

How do the folks in the West Coast& BC feel about that? I can agree that if no one except one chapter ever volunteers, so be it. It's over 2000 miles to Indiana from S California, not to mention that running a National Meet can, if run properly, be a cash cow. Each year a predetermined section of the US & Canada should be offered first shot. If no response by a advertised date, then all offers can be considered. Regarding Hershey, The AACA National HQ runs that one... that is where the organization is located, just like La Hambra Ca is "home" to MAFCA. Keep all areas of the membership active ... float the meets.

I am pretty sure you are in error on several things. The AACA National does NOT organize nor run the AACA Fall Meet. That is actually handled by the Hershey Region of AACA, ...just like the Hornets Nest Region of AACA operates the Charlotte Swap Meet and Car show. The AACA HQ nor the museum are affiliated directly with the Hershey Region.

Second, while you are correct that a meet could indeed make lots of money, IMHO that is NOT the purpose of these meets!! Matter of fact, it should be just the opposite. You have already heard complaints regarding costs. Suggesting these events need to be a 'cash cow' would be very detrimental to MARC Meet attendance.

Your comment regarding 2,000 miles from SoCal to IN is an accurate one, ...but ironically, the worst-attended MARC Meet in recent years was one held in San Diego a couple of years ago. I know because I made that 2,000 mile trek. While there were quite a few that came from the east coast, it seemed no one from California wanted to show up. That venue turned out to be a financial disaster for the hosts. I doubt anyone from SoCal is ready to host that again.




.

[Richard Wilson]

The geographical center of the 48 contiguous United States is near Lebanon, Kansas. The median population center of the United States per the 2010 census is Texas County, Missouri. Generally speaking, public schools are out the middle of June and start back in late August.

Perhaps someone should do a survey of either a MARC or MAFCA (as needed) membership roster and see where the majority of actual club members are located. Also, a survey of past national meets and locations as compared to attendance would be a good indicator of future meet success. To the casual observer, national meets in the corners of the country have lower attendance.

For those that might be "pushing" for a single location, I have read that the Great Smoky Mountains National Park (east TN and west NC) is the most visited national park in the nation. Advertising says it is within one days drive (modern car) for 65% of the US population. I know that Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg area has some type of car show (local, regional, and/or national) there almost every weekend in the summer. Of course that would limit most members from west of the Mississippi River.

One has to remember that "restored" Model A owners are a relatively small target group: limited by just one brand auto, just four years of manufacture, our autos are basically restored/rebuilt as manufactured with slight personal modifications, and by the advancing age of our membership which does limit what distance we are willing to travel to attend a meet, whether in our Model A or even our more modern autos.

I would like to see more of the MARC Charlottesville/Chattanooga "hub" style national tours. I have several long time Model A friends, and they all say that these two meets were the best "national" meets they had ever attended and they have been to many.

[Mike V. Florida]

The problem with a fixed location is if the location is too far to travel now it will be forever to far to travel. If the location rotates around the country it gives a greater chance for the different people to attend at least one meet in there lifetime.

Our region looked into hosting something here in South Florida. The trouble it there is no "guidebook" for those that never ran something this big to be sure all the avenues are met. Another problem for a South Florida national event it the lack of "model A" roads. Any one that has ever been here knows there are little "scenic" routes to be taken. The last and possibly greatest disadvantage is the distance one has to travel to get here. It is several hours from the top of the state to the Fort Lauderdale area. The northern part of the state actually has hills, while the only hills here are overpasses.

I guess my greatest fear is having it be such a flop that we will forever be known as such.

[Bob Johnson]

There are advantages and drawbacks to both fixed or random locations. I think the biggest advantage to a fixed meet is consistency. It would be well run and predictable. Everyone who know what to expect. With a random location some will be better than others. But the big drawback to a fixed location is that after a while the same people will end up attending the event. If the meet is moved around the country then it is more likely that different people will attend.

How about on even years it is at a fixed location (central part of country) and on odd years it is in the east or west. That way there is a stable consistent meet every other year and a chance to include more people the other years.

Does anyone have a MARC Membership Roster? A map of members locations could be made from the roster that would tell what the distribution of members is across the states.

Bob

[Bob Johnson]

Here is a map showing the number of MARC Regions in each state. It does not show the correct distribution of members but can give a rough guess of where the active members are located.

Bob

[Ken Ehrenhofer]

I have, and my family has, enjoyed using our vacation time and money to go to Model A National Meets. I look forward to bringing my grandchildren to them soon. If we do not go to someplace interesting for the whole family I am sure a lot of people/families will go elsewhere. I do not mind going to the same place but I am hearing this is to soon and two years in a row is unacceptable from the people I am talking to. We need a National Meet Region but they must be willing to support a region in Minnesota or Vermont or any where these wonderful meets might take us.
I loved French Lick and I would love to go back .....someday!
Yes I will always go to Hershey because it is a PARTS SWAP! I would go to Outer Mongolia for a parts swap....It is not the same....my family has never been to Hershey.......Just my thoughts, Ken

[spdway1]

Whoever recently called a member in our club was told "NO WAY", to bad because that is the feeling of few in our club and it was brought forward in a monthly meeting AFTER the fact. Some of us feel the wrong person was contacted, a topic like this should be brought up to the president first, not a random person.

The two National clubs should think about how a National Meet is operated, Take a look at AND MEET WITH the Goodguys Club and the American Truch Historical Society and make changes, yes changes. These two show formats would lessen the burden on the area host club, after all Model A members are not getting any younger.

[glenn in camino]

I really like visiting different cities for national meets and installation banquets.

[Ken Ehrenhofer]

[QUOTE=Mike V. Florida;674809]The problem with a fixed location is if the location is too far to travel now it will be forever to far to travel. If the location rotates around the country it gives a greater chance for the different people to attend at least one meet in there lifetime.

Our region looked into hosting something here in South Florida. The trouble it there is no "guidebook" for those that never ran something this big to be sure all the avenues are met. Another problem for a South Florida national event it the lack of "model A" roads. Any one that has ever been here knows there are little "scenic" routes to be taken. The last and possibly greatest disadvantage is the distance one has to travel to get here. It is several hours from the top of the state to the Fort Lauderdale area. The northern part of the state actually has hills, while the only hills here are overpasses.

Hi Mike,
There is a Meet Guidelines book available from the National to help explain things. Also we have had several National Meets in Northern Florida...Yes I know it is a long way down to you guys......but maybe you could use some of the guys and gals from St Petersburg and Jacksonville to help out even if it is just for thier experience.....How about hosting a meet around Disney world.....It does not have to be in your backyard......Just some thoughts

[BadgerA]

Will. I applaud your approach to tackling your new position! Having known you for a relatively short time and seeing your level of enthusiasm and sense of caring,, I am anticipating great things moving forward. That being said, I share the opinion that there are far too many complainers and not enough doers. Perhaps a bit of history might be in order to illustrate. Our chapter "The Nickle As" in northeastern Wisconsin has now hosted four national meets. Having only been into model A's and a club member for about five years I can only speak of our Oshkosh meet last year. As a result of going through that experience I absolutely refuse to accept the excuse from any club that hosting a national is too hard! Our club only has about 100 members. Out of that membership only about 40 of the members were actively involved in putting on last year's meet. Yes it takes time (about two years) and yes it takes dedication on the part of the participants. But if planned methodically, it is NOT difficult to do. Again, our club and others have hosted multiple meets and we will all be more than happy to share our story with anyone curious about what to do and how to do it.

Certainly we all hope that those who attended in Oshkosh had a good time. But from a purely selfish point of view, I can honestly say that hosting the meet left me with a far deeper and fulfilling experience than I have had "just attending" a meet put on by someone else. You meet a lot of very nice people, the bonds of friendship you make are priceless and for a lifetime.

Repeating, I have only been in this "hobby" for a few years. Yes the cars are fun to own and use,,, but if that is all there would be, I would no longer be part of this "family". It is the friendships I have made with total strangers from all over the country that has been my motivator to continue. Model A people are a unique breed and the best!

Frankly, I have concerns for the future of the hobby and our national club if more people don't step out of their comfort zone and commit to hosting a meet. If we leave it up to a few and settle for a limited number of host sites, I think we will see the end of our organization sooner rather than later. Just take a look at the membership roles. It's not a pretty picture. The age is increasing and there is very little new blood entering the hobby.
yes, national meets are for the members to be sure. But if we do not openly invite outsiders to see what a wonderful hobby we have by letting them see the cars,, and if we do not "move the experience around" so a greater audience can partake, we will settle into complacency. If local chapters do not step up and offer to host a meet,,, then IMHO they do not have a right to complain about repetitive venues, time of year, etc.

It's time to step up people. Challenge your local chapter to host a meet. The benefits to all will be immeasurable. Enjoy the journey. Thanks for listening.

Steve in Wisconsin

[frank55a]

Will, Steve, and some others are right on. I could write a book on this issue.

The Membership meets and National Tours are not that difficult to host. Our Region hosted 3 Membership Meets within 11 years. The last Membership Meet we hosted had 3 days of tours some what like a National Tour. While the National Meets take more work they can be hosted by a small group and still be successful, i.e., 2009 National Meet I believe the host Region had 9 members.

In the end when the BOD has tried everything and time is running out with no other choice, then you get what you get.

As several others have stated earlier in various ways, quit your complaining it is time to stand up and do something about it or live with the conseuences.

[Arlen]

I'm with a lot of the others on here. I only have so much time off from work and only so much money to spend during that time. I wouldn't be interested in going to the same place year after year unless it was a really special place (rocky mountains, Yellowstone, etc). Your talking about 2014-2015 but what about 8-10 years down the road? I was on the board of directors planning the 2008 mafca/Marc joint meet and just completed chairing the 2013 mafca national tour. The blue ridge is a beautiful drive but I couldn't expect to organize a tour down it every year. The number of attendees would drop to half after the second year. Another case of been there done that.

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Second, while you are correct that a meet could indeed make lots of money, IMHO that is NOT the purpose of these meets!! Matter of fact, it should be just the opposite. You have already heard complaints regarding costs. Suggesting these events need to be a 'cash cow' would be very detrimental to MARC Meet attendance.


.

I went to the joint meet in Dallas and when it was over the host club returned some excess money to the attendees by way of a gift card.

[MikeK]

Timing is everything. I agree with Scott NY. Neither I nor my family members are ever available to travel in June. Try the last three weeks of July or the first two of August. Mixing it up a bit may bring some new faces to the meets.

[Mike V. Florida]

How about a poll with the question to get an idea of what the general forum member thinks in one post.

Not meant to be a hijack but whatever is decided, please get event insurance and invite the general (non member) public.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

I went to the joint meet in Dallas and when it was over the host club returned some excess money to the attendees by way of a gift card.

Yeah if you recall, only after I began raising Holy Hades about the money they made!



Funny about this is I hear folks complain they would not return year after year to the same place, ...but I also see a pattern where it is the same few groups that must re-host multiple times. I can't seem to get it out of my mind that it is a "Well since they can't find anyone else to do it, I guess we better do it again!" mindset that 20% of the folks are doing 80% of the work in hosting these venues. I wonder what would happen if it was a mandatory requirement that ALL chapters/regions had to host at least one National Meet???


.

[Richard Wilson]

Brent, I know that you are an officer in one of the national T Model Clubs. What do they do as related to some sort of national meet or tour? Do they go to the same location every year for their "national meet" and/or tour, or do they do different locations? Either way how does it work out for the members?

I wonder if the T Model clubs had similar questions back in the 60's and 70's? I think lessons may be learned from what happened with the national T Model clubs.

[Chris in WNC]

national clubs should re-think the mid summer requirement when meets take place in areas guaranteed to have oppressively hot weather......

Alice and I explored the idea of hosting a national meet in Asheville. it would be a GREAT venue. but NONE of the clubs in the area have any interest in doing the work. here's where the National Meet Region could be helpful.

we vote for always having meets in small cities (French Lick, Marquette, &c) rather than major metro areas- more charm, less traffic.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Richard Wilson

Brent, I know that you are an officer in one of the national T Model Clubs. What do they do as related to some sort of national meet or tour? Do they go to the same location every year for their "national meet" and/or tour, or do they do different locations? Either way how does it work out for the members?

I wonder if the T Model clubs had similar questions back in the 60's and 70's? I think lessons may be learned from what happened with the national T Model clubs.

They travel to different areas. I do think there has been more Model T clubs willing to step up to host them than what I am hearing is happening with Model-A events.

With that said, there are some other differences in the two. Our 'perceived value' by attendees is much better since our club guidelines state that any financial excess of $2,500 from the event must be equally returned to the registered car owners, or given back to the national club. As the Treasurer of the Nat'l club, within 90 days after completion of the meet/tour, a thorough accounting must be submitted to me for audit and presentation to the board members. Comparatively, I find the Model-T events are generally less money to attend for what one receives. I do feel that is huge with respect to attracting members to attend.

Will and I have spoken several times over the past month or so regarding the future of MARC and what can be done to aide in this. He has shared with me some things that I feel if they can implement will definitely be some positive changes.

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

national clubs should re-think the mid summer requirement when meets take place in areas guaranteed to have oppressively hot weather......

Alice and I explored the idea of hosting a national meet in Asheville. it would be a GREAT venue. but NONE of the clubs in the area have any interest in doing the work. here's where the National Meet Region could be helpful.

we vote for always having meets in small cities (French Lick, Marquette, &c) rather than major metro areas- more charm, less traffic.

Chris, I personally do not believe it takes a club to host one of these venues. Pennie, the kids, and myself hosted the Model T Clubs Annual Tour/Meet in Johnson City in 2009 with just the 4 of us. In some ways I think it was easier this way as we did not need to worry with club politics when we made decisions. While we were constrained not being able to make a profit, that did not restrict us from hiring people to handle duties for us, -or reimbursing us for out-of-pocket expenses. My point is I think doing a MARC meet would be even easier to pull off as there is less things to organize when you can hire people to do the things you can't.

I DO agree with you that you can delegate duties to Board Members and I feel most of them would assist you in finding volunteers to assist. I am co-chairing an event in 2014 in Boone, NC but after that date, I would be willing to help you two if you wanted to host one.

One other comment that I want to say tongue-in-cheek is that the mid summer dates that I hear others complain about, or that a meet is too far to drive are somewhat generally comical to me. Generally when we stereotype a typical Model-T owner, we think of an old man & woman. The Model T club's event is always held the 3rd week off July (usually hotter then than in mid-June) and we travel to far-away places (2009 - JC, TN; 2010 - Rapid City, SD; 2011 - Rochester, MN; 2012 - Rutland, VT; 2013 - Kanab, UT; 2014 - Boone, NC) and these event always fill up. That is why I think it has more to do with making it where it is enough of a family value that folks don't want to miss it.

.

[WTSHNN]

Ok, some real quick geography...

I have been to 13 of the last 15 MARC National Meets, starting with Jacksonville in 1998 and missing only Lancaster in '99 and San Diego in '11. I am unable to attend Lexington next week due to work commitments and don't plan on attending French Lick either of the next two years.

For kicks, I created this Google Map based on this thread.
Click Here for the Map

The map is interactive and you can move it around and zoom in and out as you please.

I plotted each MARC National Meet from 1996 until 2016, these are represented by the green pushpins.

I then went through this thread and plotted where each person who posted was from. If an exact location wasn't known, I tried to pick what looked to be the geographic center of their state. I then figured out the driving distance from them to French Lick. These are represented by the blue dots.

I did not plot Membership Meets or National Tours.

12 out of the 21 meets were held in what I think most people would consider "the Midwest."

FWIW
-Tim

[Jordan]

Every once in a while it's ok to repeat a location. But I would not go year after year to the same place...but that's just me.

[Richard Lorenz]

I suggest that we try French Lick for a fixed number of years, say 3. This will give it a good trial, then MARC can decide.

I would like to see more good technical seminars, not those that describe what meets the "Standards". That type of seminar just repeats what is already in the Judging Standards. The meeting with the best "how to" seminars was the joint meeting at Tacoma.

I have given seminars on shock repair (Grand Rapids) and the electrical system (Williamsburg). I might be able to provide a technical seminar at the next annual. The only subject that I can think of now would be details on the ignition system, including electronics. I am getting old and slow, but I might be able to do it if it is desired.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Richard Lorenz

I suggest that we try French Lick for a fixed number of years, say 3. This will give it a good trial, then MARC can decide.

I would like to see more good technical seminars, not those that describe what meets the "Standards". That type of seminar just repeats what is already in the Judging Standards. The meeting with the best "how to" seminars was the joint meeting at Tacoma.

I have given seminars on shock repair (Grand Rapids) and the electrical system (Williamsburg). I might be able to provide a technical seminar at the next annual. The only subject that I can think of now would be details on the ignition system, including electronics. I am getting old and slow, but I might be able to do it if it is desired.

Jeez Richard, even better than these two???

.

[Richard Lorenz]

Brent: If you could only move your shop to a national meeting location. I believe that you did take part of it to Nashville or somewhere one time.

The Tacoma seminars included the classic on speedometer repairing (printed version is now available), carburetor repair by the man from Seattle whose name escapes me (Baetke maybe), an outdoor sheet metal demonstration like you might have done, and others.

[Mikeinnj]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Timing is everything. I agree with Scott NY. Neither I nor my family members are ever available to travel in June. Try the last three weeks of July or the first two of August. Mixing it up a bit may bring some new faces to the meets.

I disagree....

French Lick Indiana is a 1722 mile round trip from my home here in the New York Metro area.

That equates to sitting behind the wheel of my Model A for about 43 hours of non stop driving averaging 40 MPH. Figure in a bit more time for layovers, rest stops, gas stops etc.

That alone precludes my family from making the trip, as they are the
"Are we almost there yet ? " kind of passengers, who dislike riding in an
non-air conditioned vehicle in sweltering hot weather.
For this reason I vote MOVE THE EVENTS AROUND and hold them in the spring or fall. I know some of you have school age kids but MOST members do not, so the hot summer months are not desirable to most owners.
EXAMPLE - I attended the 1988 National meet in Sturbridge , Ma. held on the hottest week of the summer. It was so damned hot and humid all week no one even wanted to go out to the parking area to view the 400 cars on display except in the evening when the temps receded to the high 80's. Never again !

[spdway1]

Originally Posted by spdway1

Whoever recently called a member in our club was told "NO WAY", to bad because that is the feeling of few in our club and it was brought forward in a monthly meeting AFTER the fact. Some of us feel the wrong person was contacted, a topic like this should be brought up to the president first, not a random person.

The two National clubs should think about how a National Meet is operated, Take a look at AND MEET WITH the Goodguys Club and the American Truch Historical Society and make changes, yes changes. These two show formats would lessen the burden on the area host club, after all Model A members are not getting any younger.

What do I know, I am just a dumb young guy here.

[Gary Karr]

I have been watching this thread from the start and have enjoyed all of the comments. I along with four other truly dedicated individuals formed the Pacific A’s Region of MARC for the sole purpose of hosting the 2011 MARC National Meet in San Diego. Two of us were from the San Diego Region, two from Harbor A’s in Los Angeles, and one from Capo A’s in Orange County. We all felt that it would be a wonderful idea to have a West Coast MARC National Meet. Before we formed our own region, we went to a couple of the MARC Clubs here and asked if they wanted to host a meet and were turned down, mostly because they did not want to potentially suffer the possible financial losses associated with hosting. Our board of five came with some of the most incredible talent and organizational skills I have ever seen. We were able to bring in some of the greatest volunteers and workers to pull off the meet. It takes a lot of manpower and that can sometimes be the biggest struggle.
Our feeling was that our meet would be greatly attended by many MARC and MAFCA member through the Southwest. That however was not the case. We heard every excuse from “I’m not a MARC Member and won’t join another Club to attend your meet” to “The economy is too bad and I cannot afford it” to “This is MAFCA Country!” Because there was no possibility for another national meet from either National Club to be held in Southern California at least until after 2016, we felt that we had a good chance of attracting a lot of people that would not otherwise travel across country to attend. We booked a wonderful hotel with tons of space and over-guaranteed room nights, thinking we would get max participation from this part of the country. That ended up costing us money that we had hoped on making at the event. It is a real craps shoot on figuring how many hotel rooms to guarantee before the registration forms even go out. Keep in mind that the number of room guarantees decide how much meeting space the host hotel is going to give the group.
Planning a National Meet is a lot of work but a lot of fun. I would do it again (I can’t speak for the other four though!) I also have no problem traveling across country to attend a National meet, especially when I have a Model A to show in Fine Point. To me, the Meet can be anywhere, as I spend most of my time at the swap meet and out in the parking lot kicking tires. Choose a host hotel with a great large parking lot to display the Model A’s and I’m there! I do think that it is a great idea moving National Meets around the country. I would even like to see a Meet in a cooler location such as Montana, Colorado, Idaho, or other places around this beautiful country. Even though there are no MARC or MAFCA region ins some of those locations they could still be coordinated remotely.
To all future Meet planners, thank you for all of your efforts. They are all a blast and I hope to attend as many as I can.

[larrys40]

Gary,

So why do you think they didn't really come? Especially all the California folks...?? I find it strange that you would have low attendance as well.. but am curious as to why it was so poorly attended. I go to both Marc/Mafca events....btw.. didn't you use to be in Wisconsin region, 1986 World Meet country?
Thx.
Larry Shepard
St. Charles, MO

[MVal]

Being a west coaster, last year was an opportunity to attend both a MARC and MAFCA meet in two weeks which was too much to pass up. It was my first MARC meet and I enjoyed it. But I think the question Will asked is like asking if the glass is half full or half empty. There will be as many answers as there are people replying with no clear mandate as shown by the answers to date. I know if future MARC meets were all held in Oshkosh, it would be hard for me to get interested in attending as we had "been there, done that". And for that reason I would vote for the moving location. Believe me one location would get stale after a few years and I have seen examples of that in northern California at local meets hosted annually by one club.

As an off the wall suggestion that could help get regions to host a meet, maybe going to an every other year meet would help. I have always been amazed that MARC has been able to solicit regions to step up for an annual meet and it has been great but maybe not something that will continue. If there was a MAFCA meet one year and a MARC meet the other it might work well for the Model A membership of both clubs. Something similar has been suggested in the past for both club's magazines--one on even months and one on odd months. Know it might be heresy to suggest something like this but sometimes difficult times require difficult decisions.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by larrys40

Gary,

So why do you think they didn't really come? Especially all the California folks...?? I find it strange that you would have low attendance as well.. but am curious as to why it was so poorly attended. I go to both Marc/Mafca events....btw.. didn't you use to be in Wisconsin region, 1986 World Meet country?
Thx.

Larry, my personal opinion is there is THAT much difference between the two club's mindsets. I will tell you that S/D was a very well thought out and run Meet! The hotel was very nice, the flowers (& fragrances) were unreal as you walked to different locations, the meeting rooms were expansive, the place was big but was intimate enough it did not feel "big" ....all in all it was fabulous with the possible exception of traffic around the hotel.




In everyone's opinion, what is the true purpose of why we attend the MARC Meet? If we narrowed it down to 7 or 8 basic criteria, maybe this is why?

* Fellowship with Friends & Fellow enthusiasts
* Fine Point/Touring Judging
* Fashion Show
* Swap Meet
* Seminars
* Board & Special Int. Group Meeting
* Sightseeing


Maybe there is another one or two I'm missing? (maybe like Ice Cream!?! ) Is there others?

[Chris in WNC]

Oshkosh to us was a very good meet but an unremarkable venue.

Marquette on the other hand was a GREAT venue and we plan to go back again just for the fun of being in Marquette!

[larrys40]

Brent,
I've been to more Mafca regionals than nationals.. as the Nationals are typically more west coast located, time and money are factors for me.... but I don't pick them by club, I pick them by geography or where I want to go and what they are having. In my opinion the best meets are those with scenery, good planning,seminars,swap meet, and organized tours and activities ( ice cream optional). Even though I appreciate and have judged at nationals many years ago and enjoy the fine point and originality side... I see the "touring" side the driving force to the success of the meets. Maybe the recent National (or they could be regional) Tours is part of the wave of the future....
Personally I liked French Lick.. I would probably go back a 2nd time but not a 3rd. I think change of venue is necessary to continue to pull interest of the larger masses.
Personally I think it's been great MARC has had an annual meet... as it gives something to plan for and be excited about going to. . I think before they reduce it to alternating years that other options be explored. Like the V8 National usually has a "Grand" National every 5 years.. it use to be in Detroit... well ours could be at the "MAFFI" museum area venue or something of the sort.... maybe that would help? Food for thought...
BTW.. the Natchez Trace and BRP were awesome!! Definitely trips of a lifetime.
My words to folks that haven't been to a National or tour... are... "What are you waiting for"! start enjoying memories and adventures.... so there's a little heat or the element of breaking down. Get your car up to snuff and drive and enjoy... you won't regret it. My Pikes Peak trek in my "A" was fog laden so bad I couldn't see 20 feet in front of me at times.. but it was still worth it. An adventure to remember.
Will, if you need a helper for a National meet or project count me in!
Larry Shepard

[HoarseWhisperer]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

Oshkosh to us was a very good meet but an unremarkable venue.

Marquette on the other hand was a GREAT venue and we plan to go back again just for the fun of being in Marquette!

As a former "Cheesehead", that really hurts.

I have "feelings", ya know!

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Will, if you are still looking for population and temperature maps here are a slug of them so maybe one of them will work out.
US Population Density Maps
http://www.google.com/search?q=us+po...w=1454&bih=713

US Temperature Range Map
http://www.google.com/search?q=us+te...w=1454&bih=713

[steve s]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Larry, my personal opinion is there is THAT much difference between the two club's mindsets. ...
In everyone's opinion, what is the true purpose of why we attend the MARC Meet? If we narrowed it down to 7 or 8 basic criteria, maybe this is why?

* Fellowship with Friends & Fellow enthusiasts
* Fine Point/Touring Judging
* Fashion Show
* Swap Meet
* Seminars
* Board & Special Int. Group Meeting
* Sightseeing

Maybe there is another one or two I'm missing? (maybe like Ice Cream!?! ) Is there others?

Brent,

I know we've gone round and round on this in earlier threads, but could you please spell out for those of us who are not in-the-know what the differences are? I belong to both clubs, although our local chapter is MARC, and I just don't see it. Sure there are strict preservationists and borderline hot rodders, but we all get along and respect each others' passions, and enjoy looking at each others' cars. You've given a great list of why MARC attendees go to meets; do you really feel that list doesn't apply to MAFCA folks too? I bet if merger were put to a vote of the membership (not just the leadership), there would be overwhelming support to eliminate the silly, and maybe ultimately tragic, wasteful duplication of effort and division of resources. It seems to me that once common Judging Standards have been agreed on and the precedent of joint meets has been set, the heavy lifting has been done--the rest is just politics, making excuses, and denial of demographic realities. Isn't it sad that a third magazine (Model A Times) was needed to do product reviews, and yet a fourth organization was needed to make the Museum happen?

Steve
Kalamazoo

[rosenkranswa]

I've been avidly watching this thread, which has contained some very well reasoned and thought out responses. My wife and I have had discussions almost every day about this and the greater problem almost all auto clubs are facing of declining memberships. Our consensus is that a fixed location is probably not a good idea for the primary reason that a large part of the attraction is the variety in locations. We both loved French Lick, but probably would not elect to go back this soon. We also are just recently without school age children that would have made travel prior to June and after August difficult and relegated us to the hotter months (we were at the meet in Williamsburg which was a wonderful locale, but hotter than Hades). However, the national should look to attracting younger members which means staying away from school schedules.

Our local club, the Active A's, have sponsored both membership and national meets in Lancaster, PA, and were asked again by the national to consider one. The club decided against making a bid mainly because the club had aged and most of the members just couldn't see having the energy to host another. Perhaps part of the answer is the National Meet Region which could be a rotating membership open to the whole country and who would develop expertise in hosting national meets and chosing varied locales rotating between East, West, and Midwest independent of having a local chapter in the area.

We've lately been attending the Model T Winter Tours in Florida each March. Those meets move around Florida, and the attraction of a warm locale in March is considerable. But we both agree that the primary attraction of the Winter Tour is the people on the tour. These are quite a bit smaller than a national though. We also thoroughly enjoyed the Blue Ridge Parkway tour. We are already planning our next years events to include the T Winter Tour, and the Early V-8 national in Gettysburg, no A events so far. Why? Distance and venue.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by rosenkranswa

I've been avidly watching this thread, which has contained some very well reasoned and thought out responses. My wife and I have had discussions almost every day about this and the greater problem almost all auto clubs are facing of declining memberships. Our consensus is that a fixed location is probably not a good idea for the primary reason that a large part of the attraction is the variety in locations. We both loved French Lick, but probably would not elect to go back this soon. We also are just recently without school age children that would have made travel prior to June and after August difficult and relegated us to the hotter months (we were at the meet in Williamsburg which was a wonderful locale, but hotter than Hades). However, the national should look to attracting younger members which means staying away from school schedules.

Our local club, the Active A's, have sponsored both membership and national meets in Lancaster, PA, and were asked again by the national to consider one. The club decided against making a bid mainly because the club had aged and most of the members just couldn't see having the energy to host another. Perhaps part of the answer is the National Meet Region which could be a rotating membership open to the whole country and who would develop expertise in hosting national meets and chosing varied locales rotating between East, West, and Midwest independent of having a local chapter in the area.

We've lately been attending the Model T Winter Tours in Florida each March. Those meets move around Florida, and the attraction of a warm locale in March is considerable. But we both agree that the primary attraction of the Winter Tour is the people on the tour. These are quite a bit smaller than a national though. We also thoroughly enjoyed the Blue Ridge Parkway tour. We are already planning our next years events to include the T Winter Tour, and the Early V-8 national in Gettysburg, no A events so far. Why? Distance and venue.

I agree with everything you said except ............ Surely you are kidding about the "warm locale"!! I thought we just about froze our hind-ends off on that tour!! Those frosty mornings were absolutely brutal in an open car! The hospitality & fellowship was indeed awesome though.

[rosenkranswa]

Yeah, a bit chilly in the mornings - but still better than 30 degrees all day.

Maybe it was the idea it could have been warmer...

[ctvpa]

Thank you so much for looking to the members for a venue for input. This is nice of you.
I belong to a medical society that presents a national meet. We used to have local chapters put on the meeting. Each year we re-invented the wheel. Groups that did a good job would not share, groups that did a poor job, got blamed, poor comments and lost frustrated members.
To solve this we appointed a paid position of 'Meet Coordinator'. This person started planning events 5years out. While she had the experience to manage the meting, she works with the local groups, and she does most of the planning via the Internet. This is working very well.
I would like to see events in different places. We just went to the Museum opening. It was a great job, but it took a week of vacation to dive with a trailer 880 miles, 1 day at the museum, 1 day at the ford museum, then 880 miles home. Back to work the next day exhausted. Lots of $$ for gas, lot of $$ for hotels. Whole week of vacation for 2 days.
I vote we try a program like this, to have a national meet chairmen who would do the organizational work, while assigning tasks and projects to the local club.
I

[ctvpa]

Originally Posted by spdway1

Whoever recently called a member in our club was told "NO WAY", to bad because that is the feeling of few in our club and it was brought forward in a monthly meeting AFTER the fact. Some of us feel the wrong person was contacted, a topic like this should be brought up to the president first, not a random person.

The two National clubs should think about how a National Meet is operated, Take a look at AND MEET WITH the Goodguys Club and the American Truch Historical Society and make changes, yes changes. These two show formats would lessen the burden on the area host club, after all Model A members are not getting any younger.

The national clubs should contact the OFFICERS OF THE CLUB in a formal way, not contact just one member who spoke for the local club without the club's knowledge.

[spdway1]

Originally Posted by ctvpa

Thank you so much for looking to the members for a venue for input. This is nice of you.
I belong to a medical society that presents a national meet. We used to have local chapters put on the meeting. Each year we re-invented the wheel. Groups that did a good job would not share, groups that did a poor job, got blamed, poor comments and lost frustrated members.
To solve this we appointed a paid position of 'Meet Coordinator'. This person started planning events 5years out. While she had the experience to manage the meting, she works with the local groups, and she does most of the planning via the Internet. This is working very well.
I would like to see events in different places. We just went to the Museum opening. It was a great job, but it took a week of vacation to dive with a trailer 880 miles, 1 day at the museum, 1 day at the ford museum, then 880 miles home. Back to work the next day exhausted. Lots of $$ for gas, lot of $$ for hotels. Whole week of vacation for 2 days.
I vote we try a program like this, to have a national meet chairmen who would do the organizational work, while assigning tasks and projects to the local club.
I

JUST like the Goodguys Club and the American Truck Historical Society do!!

[Chris in WNC]

this is a small and unscientific survey, but all I have spoken to here at the Lexington meet about the "every year at French Lick" concept believe it's a bad idea. f.w.i.w.

[rons49]

Brent, I spoke to Steve Moskowitz re the AACA Fall Eastern Meet( Hershey). I stand corrected. Man, talk about a lot of work and investment for a Region. I was under the impression that National helped out. Nope.

[azmodela]

You need to change it up. Consider decreasing the frequency of meets over a fixed location. I'm not a member of my local club because they do the same thing each month of the year, year after year. Once you've done it twice, you don't want to do it again. I'm one of the "younger" members and I believe that if you want to attract the future, it needs to be different every year. That's why you don't have the same seminar on tools every year. Different places have different perspectives and experiences.....

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by azmodela

You need to change it up. Consider decreasing the frequency of meets over a fixed location. I'm not a member of my local club because they do the same thing each month of the year, year after year. Once you've done it twice, you don't want to do it again. I'm one of the "younger" members and I believe that if you want to attract the future, it needs to be different every year. That's why you don't have the same seminar on tools every year. Different places have different perspectives and experiences.....

You couldn't have said it any better than that...French Lick...3 times in 5 years!...like you said..."You need to change it up"!

Pluck

[SteveB31]

I feel that the National meets should be held in different places each time. I would go to, and have gone to most MARC and MAFCA meets for the last 30 years, and would not likley go if it was held in the same place very year. I understand the advantages of that concept, as it would be much easier to plan, but I feel that their would be less people each year.

I agree that the meets would be better attended if they were every other year, opposite of the year that the other club has their meet.

So, MARC meet in odd years, MAFCA meets in even years.

Just my opinion......

[quickchange]

As an overseas member of MAFCA & have attended many national meets the one that piss me off the most is when two meets overlap each other , hence one after spending thousands of $$$ to get there can,t do both when with a little bit of planning they could be a few days apart, Clubs TALK to one another.I preffer a differant location each time as then we as tourists get to see more of your great country, I have never attended a MARC meet , some joint ones yes, I like SteveB31 idea of every second year as above , NZ holds it National meet every two years , being the off year to MAFCA . One of the best meets there apart from Reno 98 was the last year regional meet in Boise, Interesting disccusion & may the directors of both clubs take on board what members enjoy. Course a speed event adds to the icing on the cream cake, Derek from an icy NZ

[Arlen]

Not really sure why we are still discussing this. MARC has already announced on their website that the nation meet will be in French Lick in 14 and 15 and then somewhere different in 16. That means no matter what we voice on here, nothing can be changed until 2017. As for the clubs talking with each other and no planning meets over one another, I announced the date for the blue ridge tour two years ago. What did maffi do? Plan their grand opening of the museum one week later. You think I didn't loose attendees because of that? Maffi didn't care but its not their job to.

[brum1]

I agree with several comments suggesting MAFCA & MARC should be one and that would ease the burden of each, provide more venues, and more opportunity for the membership. I don't beleive the perceived differences between the clubs will translate into any real issue. I think quite the opposite-that you will grow the hobby

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by brum1

I agree with several comments suggesting MAFCA & MARC should be one and that would ease the burden of each, provide more venues, and more opportunity for the membership. I don't beleive the perceived differences between the clubs will translate into any real issue. I think quite the opposite-that you will grow the hobby

Naturally you are welcome to your thoughts but I liken that to saying there really isn't any differences between a Democrat and a Republican and that we should eliminate both parties and just be one united group. The chances of that ever happening is _____________________?

[Pinstripe]

To take the shine off of my ignorance, what are the main points of disagreement between the 2 orgs. that preclude them being able to discuss a joint venture?

[ctvpa]

I agree. Some members are passionate about 1 club and hate the other. MARC, MAFCA and MAFFI should come together.

[Pinstripe]

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Originally Posted by ctvpa

I agree. Some members are passionate about 1 club and hate the other. MARC, MAFCA and MAFFI should come together.

Why is this?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Pinstripe

To take the shine off of my ignorance, what are the main points of disagreement between the 2 orgs. that preclude them being able to discuss a joint venture?

Originally Posted by ctvpa

I agree. Some members are passionate about 1 club and hate the other. MARC, MAFCA and MAFFI should come together.

Pinstripe, check your PMs.

Let me ask this question. If you go to MAFCA's website, can someone read the first paragraph (directly under the Welcome to the MAFCA Web Site) and explain to me word-for-word what that means?



.

[Mike V. Florida]

MAFFI - Our Mission Statement

The Model A Ford Foundation, Inc. seeks to preserve Model A Fords and related memorabilia,
encourage research, and to educate present and future generations.

MAFCA-

The Model A Ford Club of America, Inc. (MAFCA) is a California not-for-profit corporation and a national historical society dedicated to the restoration and preservation of Model A Ford vehicles as manufactured from 1928 through 1931.

MARC-

The Model "A" Restorers Club (MARC), founded in 1952, holds as its aims the encouragement of members to acquire, restore, preserve and exhibit the Model "A" Ford. And most importantly, to enjoy the fellowship of other Model "A" Ford owners around the world.

AACA -

Since 1935, AACA has had one goal: The preservation and enjoyment of automotive history of all types. From National Meets and Tours to Regional events, AACA is here to bring enthusiasts together through exciting National activities, friendship, and Antique Automobile… an award winning 100-page full color magazine.

[frank55a]

Regarding merging MARC and MAFCA, from 1952 - 57 there was one club - MARC. Included within MARC was the Southern California Region of MARC. For what ever reason this region left MARC and formed MAFCA in 1957.

Further MARC and MAFCA are NOT nonprofit charitable corporations.

MAFFI could never merge with MARC and/or MAFCA and maintain their IRS tax status i.e., they are a nonprofit charitable corporation.

Per the MAFFI web site:

SECTION 1. Said corporation is organized exclusively for charitable and educational purposes, including for such purposes the making of distributions to organizations that qualify as exempt organizations under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, or corresponding section of future Federal Tax Codes.

SECTION 2. The purpose of this corporation is to preserve the historical significance of the Model A Ford automobile through: the establishment of a museum for vehicles and accessories; shows and exhibitions; education of the general public on that era of transportation history; and the exchange of ideas and information among members, the public and admirers of the Model A Ford to aid in their efforts to restore and preserve the car in its original likeness.

SECTION 3. The trustees may receive and accept on behalf of the Foundation, property, whether real, personal, or mixed, by way of gift, bequest, or devise, from any person, firm, trust, or corporation, to be held, administered, and disposed of in accordance with and pursuant to the provisions of this document; but no gift, bequest or devise of any property shall be received and accepted if conditioned or limited in such manner as to require the disposition of the income or its principal to any person or organization other than a "charitable organization" or for other than "charitable purposes" within the meaning of such terms as defined in this document, or as shall in the opinion of the trustees, jeopardize the Federal Income Tax exemption of this trust pursuant to Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

[brum1]

Interesting to read the mission statements of each club:

I see MAFFI with a unique mission
I think AACA is too broad

MARC and MAFCA are the same in my opinion

But its not the mission statement(what we say we do) we should consider, but the vision statement (what we think the hobby should grow into)

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by brum1

Interesting to read the mission statements of each club:

I see MAFFI with a unique mission
I think AACA is too broad

MARC and MAFCA are the same in my opinion

But its not the mission statement(what we say we do) we should consider, but the vision statement (what we think the hobby should grow into)

Really? If I join a hunting club, I would expect the focus to be on hunting, ...not fishing.

In a nutshell, there is differences enough just like there is Baptists and Methodists. MAFCA claims their major focus is about Model-A's "as they were originally manufactured". Is that a true statement??

At what point should we just have a Ford Model A Owner's Society and forget MARC & MAFCA? In others words, if you have something that resembles a Model-A (original, restored, rat rod, hot rod, street rod, whatever), then come join us. It is all about fellowship with all people who own a Model-A. You interested?

[spdway1]

Originally Posted by azmodela

You need to change it up. Consider decreasing the frequency of meets over a fixed location. I'm not a member of my local club because they do the same thing each month of the year, year after year. Once you've done it twice, you don't want to do it again. I'm one of the "younger" members and I believe that if you want to attract the future, it needs to be different every year. That's why you don't have the same seminar on tools every year. Different places have different perspectives and experiences.....

PERFECT: THIS 39 year old guy agrees.

[brum1]

MAFCA-

The Model A Ford Club of America, Inc. (MAFCA) is a California not-for-profit corporation and a national historical society dedicated to the restoration and preservation of Model A Ford vehicles as manufactured from 1928 through 1931.

MARC-

The Model "A" Restorers Club (MARC), founded in 1952, holds as its aims the encouragement of members to acquire, restore, preserve and exhibit the Model "A" Ford. And most importantly, to enjoy the fellowship of other Model "A" Ford owners around the world.

Guys-I see the words preserve and restore in each-seems like the same mission to me

otherwise your just looking for differences

[Mike V. Florida]

We now have two threads discussing the same thing using the exact same posts.

The other one was deleted.

[WTSHNN]

Isn't this thread supposed to be just about MARC meets?
-Tim

[spdway1]

Here we go, OFF the TRACKS again...

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by spdway1

Here we go, OFF the TRACKS again...

Guess it's time to put this puppy to bed.

[spdway1]

Yup! :d

[John LaVoy]

There are benefits and negatives to both ideas. I happen to fall into the moving around format because, as others have mentioned, it gives you and your family, the opportunity to visit other parts of the country that you wouldn't normally visit.

[RockHillWill]

The most response to haveing the years on alternate meets is that for a car that is being judged in particular, the restoration work can 'turn south' in two years, and that some one might 'hurry' their car to get it done and thus dilute the correctness of the restoration.

If you offered a new pickup to every third person that attended the meet/ dinner, they would be knocking down the walls to attend. It's not the money, but the 'percieved value' for your dollar.

[grj]

Simply put. There is an Economic Law called "The Law of diminishing Returns". Gary