Fixed or Random National Meet Locations.

[RockHillWill]

I read a few posts in the Model A News cover discussion concerning the interest, or the lack of, hosting the National Meet in one location each year, specifically at French Lick, Indiana.

As a few of you may already know, I have been selected as the VP of MARC and as such, it my primary responsibility to seek out hosts for both the National Meet and the Membership meet. I have already been contacted by numerous folks regarding the recent change to remove the Fine Point trophy presentations from the last dinner, even changing the name from Awards Banquet to Farewell Dinner.

As regards the venues used to host the National Meet, part of the transfer of paperwork included two large carboard storage boxes of contacts and replies that the former VP had accumulated in his quest for obtaining a region to host an event. It was startling to review those 'conversatoions'. There were literally hundreds of request from the VP
asking for those to host an event. There were also a large number of replies that indicated their appreciation for being asked, and the most complete list of 'excuses' that I could have ever imagined. Also found were a large number of 'suggestions' as to how 'things should be changed', but NO offers to help facilitate those changes or to host a meet.

Bear with me here for a moment. I am 72 years old, and have lived a full life.I have experience lows in my life that I would not wish on my worst enemy, and enjoyed a few high points that few could dream of. I work with my hands. I have owned a number of auto tune up franchises in two states and had to deal with an enormous amount of customers during that time. I have spent 12 years as a machine designer working at other peoples thoughts and direction. I also spent 24 years in building and racing stock cars where I raced an average of 34 times a year. Each event required us to be in a different town in a different state for an average of four days. I have calculated that during the stint in racing alone, I have had a personal encounter with over 3.8 million folks. I share this only to illustrate that I have had been exposed to a multitude of life experiences with people, over an extended period of time. NONE of this has made me smart in any way, nor has it had any effect on my intellect, but what it has done is given me a pretty broad and unique perspective into how people think and interract with others. I am a poor purveyor of politically correctness, and I do ask for some allowances for my approach sometimes.

I said all that to say this: It has become somewhat easier to quickly determine if some one is a giver or a taker. Taking, complaining and apathy are very easy to do, especially from behind a computer screen. It takes little forthought for future consequences or the effect on others. Their conversations generally start with "what YOU should do". Givers on the otherhand will start conversations with "here's what WE can do", or words to that effect.

What I found from reviewing the old VP paperwork was a huge amount 'taker' comments and very little 'giver' comments, and that is the crux of the problem of having to gather a willingness for a region to host one of these events.

The folks responsible for French Lick were big enough 'givers' that they formed their own region just so that they could host a National Meet, because they are interested enough in the support of MARC and the entire Model A hobby.The French Lick location was not a random choice of location. The hosts went so far as to enter all the regions zip codes into a computer program to determine the geographical center of the MARC regions, therby providing accessibility to the maximum amount of attendees. The roads are most conducive to the Model A cars, as opposed to the multi-lane freeways associated with the Metro hotels. The facilities are first class. The answer for disdain of the National Meet being held in one location should be to offer to host a meet in your own location.

I applied for a position on the Board of Directors because over the years of my involvement in MARC, I have been helped by an enormous number of 'givers' most of which can be found on this site. Folks on this site have helped make it possible for me to have experiences in this hobby that I would not have thought possible. I felt that it was time to start thinking about how I might 'give back', and this is the manner that I have chosen.

As the title of this posts suggests, I am asking you folks to jump in here, and make suggestions at to what I might do to better serve the community in my capacity as MARC VP, as I seek hosts. I am asking for suggestions for improvements, appropriate complaints for past experiences, and any other comment that might result in an improvement in the National and/or Membership site selections. We have a scheduled BOD meeting this upcoming Monday and I am anxious to report any and all responses to this request.

Have a great day guys. It's 7:30 AM in the Carolinas and I am about to take my breakfast out to the picnic table in the front yard and watch the fish jump in the lake as the turtles meander up on the banks to get a mouthfull of the new cut grass. A large Blue Herron sits down at the entrance of the driveway, just waiting for the stray minnow or frog.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Will, thank you for all you doing!!

As one who is presently serving a 2nd term as a Board of Director of another national club, -and as someone whose family of four hosted & planned that club's annual meet here in my town, I believe I am very familiar with what Will is up against. I am one of those persons that IS in favor of holding the annual meet in one location each year in a place such as French Lick.

Adding to that, since I attended the 2010 Meet there, I know firsthand how well their staff treated us as guests, ...and I also know the layout of the property and how conducive it was for holding a Model-A venue there. When you compare a meet such as this to a venue such as the AACA Fall Meet held in Hershey, I think they can be very similar. There is more to Hershey than just walking around a huge parking lot looking at old car parts. By us returning each year, not only do we know the locations of our spaces each year, we also know where to find our long-distance friends' spaces. We also are familiar with our hotel rooms, and as such we know ahead of time the conditions and what necessities we need to bring to make our stay there more pleasant. Because my wife attends with me, from experience she knows her way to the Amish country to visit stores and special interest places. We have also learned where the nice restaurants are, -and the backroads on how to get there easily. These are all bonuses that a first-time Hershey attendee does not know, and really cannot know until they have attended that location several times. I feel the same could apply to the MARC Meet.


When you consider that MARC has some 7,000 members (??) and there will be about 350 cars in Lexington next week, it appears that only 5%(+/-) of the membership actually attends the Meet, ....so maybe the bigger question in all of this is defining exactly the purpose/intent of this Meet. Out of all the activities that are planned for the entire week at these Meets, the only thing I can think of that is truly affected by location is "sightseeing". My suggestion to that is take an alternate route each year to/from the meet where different sights are seen. I also feel certain there are plenty of neighboring towns and different places to visit around the resort where redundancy should not be a concern. And, as a possible alternative to someone not wanting to attend French Lick each year, they can travel to a Membership Meet which could still be held in a different location each year.

Thank you for your willingness to hear my thoughts, --and again, thank you for the time & dedication you and the other Board members are giving.

.

[John LaVoy]

I might suggest close to the Model A Museum.

[larrys40]

Will,

Many thanks for your service to MARC and its members... volunteers like you and all those who have presently and past volunteered for and held office are incredibly vital to success. I have thought about sending you a PM or just post a couple of my thoughts... but then this is a forum so I'm going to go ahead and post.. Right/wrong/indifferent, opinions are just that... I will preface to say that I joined our local region after turning 18... and my past friend/mentor Terry Oberer said "stick with me"... after one of the other members had said.. "Kid... you belong somewhere else... this isn't for you". How's that for driving youth away. Terry's friendship and words and my own motivation were enough to make me think I may outlast the other fellow... and I did! Anyway.. at 52 now 34 years later I can't have imagined my life otherwise without Model A's and the people behind them. It has been incredibly fulfilling, fun, adventurous, and rich in friendships I could never have imagined.

One of the adventures every year is deciding to go to the National meets.... as I'm also an early V8 enthusiast.... and Mafca member I usually can only afford time and money to attend one... possible two depending on where they are, what's gong on there... and time and cost involved.

We are hosting the 2014 Membership meet here in St. Louis. I have helped to Co-Chair Membership meets past here... and have certainly been involved with our national meet held in '88
. Yes, it was over 100 back then.. Some of you probably remember.

In my course of thoughts for attendance have taken my daughter, currently she's 17 but since born to some of the meets. Location and interest to see the sights and travel there is a key thing. The Smokey Mountain regional meets are great, sights to see and stuff to do..... The locations have to be of interest... and things to do. The downside I see to French Lick, having been there is I have already seen everything and done what is there..... Yes the hotel is nice and historic.. but that alone is not enough for me to want to spend "X" amount of dollars and time to come. If it was the Scenic Rockies in Colorado or the Smokey Mountain meets I feel the scenery and other attractions are much more plentiful than French Lick. I felt at the time that I'd been there once, might go back.. but wouldn't a 3rd time... so in understanding the national meets and the people who attend them... these are some of my thoughts:

1. most who attend national meets do so repetively, as it's usually the same crew in our region who do so.
2. They want to go to new places... the same place would most certainly reduce the chance of those going thus reducing attendance ( unless it was an incredible location)
3. The quality of events and plentiful amount it key. - Sorry, I didn't see that much in French Lick although it was a good meet. ('m talking about repetitive meets there)
4. Attractiveness to all, young and old... we have to attract younger members!!
we are just caretakers of these cars... passing them on to others as time goes on.. how cool is that! Hopefully they will have as much fun as I
5. affordability.. some of the meet registrations and hotel costs are too much
6. seminars, activies, etc...

Without getting lengthy I would rather the meets be in different locations for some of the reasons above. The same meet every year in the same place does not entice me to go.. If the local regions are having trouble volunteering or are feeling overwhelmed about hosting one... maybe we need a national meet task force or something to assist and guide. I know we used a hotel planner this time, no cost to us to help us with negotiation and contract with the facility.. I know Jeff Buckley has made this known to the powers to be... maybe a plus to those hosting future meets. Will, I noticed the request for "Board Candidates" in the recent Model A News. Have to admit I am contemplating throwing myself in the mix as I feel compelled and wish to do my part and have interest in the continued success and growth of the club ( read bring more youth in).

To do that we need interesting activities, affordable, good locations, and more reasons for people to attend than not. Hopefully simply said!

Will chat more if you wish.
Larry Shepard
St. Charles, MO

[Richard Wilson]

Thank you Will for all that you have done and are doing for our hobby! Your comment about "givers and takers" is spot on. You can see it even at the local club level where only 3 or 4 members are actually trying to move the club forward and the rest are just there to be entertained. Example, how many times do we read that a club reelects the same officers over and over, year after year? Heck, I was reelected a MARC region president 15 years in a row, even after trying to recruit a new person every year. That was in a club with between 30 and 40 families at the time.

I think 2014 and 2015 back to back will be a good test for a single permanent location for the national meet. I predict a significant drop off of attendance in 2015 but hope that I am wrong. Maybe someone could set up one of those fordbarn "good ideal - bad ideal" opinion polls to see what others think.

Here is my experience as a region president and after several trips to national meets for anyone interested. For example, I organized local club tours to the two Indianapolis MARC nationals and to the two Williamsburg MARC nationals. Each was about 1,100 miles round trip from Asheville and we all drove our mostly stock Model A's there and back.

In both cases the people that went on the first tour to each location did not/would not go on the second tour to the same location. This was not because there had been any problems with the tours, the locations or the meets. They were all great meets and the host clubs did a wonderful job. Their reason for not going on the second tour to the same national meet location was "we have already been there and done that". This was even with the second national meet about ten years after the first. A week spent at a national meet is pretty expensive for most people and that may be a factor in not wanting to go to the same location every year.

I think my former club members would be representative of the average Model A hobbyist. For me personally, and I am a big proponent of driving your Model A and being a member of the national clubs, I seriously doubt that I would bother to attend another meet in either location, Indy or Williamsburg. Twice to each location was enough, even for me.

While we are talking about national meets, the most frequent complaint I have heard over the last 30 years about the national meet, is that the national meet is held in late June - early July, the HOTTEST, not Model A friendly, time of the year. For example, on all four trips to Indianapolis and Williamsburg the day time temperature was over 100 degrees every day of each week. As the Model a owner population ages, extreme heat is becoming a deterrent for some.

Finding national meet sponsors and locations is going to be a growing problem in future years for both MARC and MAFCA and I am hopeful that a solution will be found. I for one, am glad that we have dedicated men like Will, Brent and thousands of others that are "givers" and not "takers" and are moving our hobby forward!

[Tacoma Bob]

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Well after crafting a comment it didn't show up. In any event I'm with Brent. A fixed location makes a lot of sense. Look at the motorcycle crowd..........Sturgis is still in Sturgis

[CarlG]

They are all too far for me anyway.

[700rpm]

I appreciate regional and national meets changing locations. It allows attendees to see different areas of the country, as well as how other clubs work. Also, as it is now, sometimes the meets are close to home, sometimes not, and the associated costs can be a factor in deciding whether to attend or not; it's good to keep in mind that not everyone has the same resources. And finally, it takes a lot of work (and money) to host a big meet, and if it is held in a single location every year (or every other year), there would be a significant potential for burnout.

Thank you for your work on this, Will, for considering other ways to do things and for asking advice. I may never get to a MARC meet, being a left-coaster, but I will be interested to see how MARC plans go forward.

[RockHillWill]

Gentlemen, I really appreciate the input to date. It has been sound and worth consideration.

Just random thoughts on my part:

Can anyone here guide me to a website that that shows US population density in a format that would allow 'zooming in' getting a closer look state by state.

Can anyone here provide a US temperature range for the year according to states or counties.

Can anyone here guide me to an average range of school closures for the summer and the dates for school beginnings, in the event it not the same all over the country.
In an effort to be able to account for youth attendance, weather and population considerations, we might want to consider the Membership Meet at the very beginning of the youth/summer and have the National meet at the very end of it, in various locations according to temperature and population density.

The MARC Constitution has established the time range for these meets to be held, and it looks like they may have accounted for the possibility of promoting youth attendance.

What is becoming abundantly clear is that ALL these issues become less of a problem if we could encourage more PARTICIPATION in both hosting and attending the meets. Most costs could be adjusted downward if they are spread over a wider attendance base. We would have more leverage with the hotels, etc.

As always, these are just random thoughts. Let me continue to hear from you folks.

[rons49]

How do the folks in the West Coast& BC feel about that? I can agree that if no one except one chapter ever volunteers, so be it. It's over 2000 miles to Indiana from S California, not to mention that running a National Meet can, if run properly, be a cash cow. Each year a predetermined section of the US & Canada should be offered first shot. If no response by a advertised date, then all offers can be considered. Regarding Hershey, The AACA National HQ runs that one... that is where the organization is located, just like La Hambra Ca is "home" to MAFCA. Keep all areas of the membership active ... float the meets.

[WTSHNN]

Will, I'll chime in later to discuss the meet topic but I must applaud you for actually reaching out to the Members, aka the people you "serve," and soliciting their opinions and feedback. I'm glad to see you're doing it through Fordbarn, obviously an important group of Model A'ers from a range of backgrounds (including members, non-members etc). It appeared that in the past being sworn in to the MARC board required an oath to not acknowledge Fordbarn's existence and to never post on the forum regarding issues pertaining to the hobby and the club.
-Tim

[Bruce_MO]

Lots of great comments, and thanks so much for asking for input. Like Larry (hi Larry...hope to see you Sunday for the ice cream social at our house), I'm also in the V8 Club and I like their meet format... regional meets most years, and a "Grand National" meet every 5 years in Dearborn. I really think French Lick is an awesome place, and I would probably go there year after year. But I do think it would penalize a lot of folks who are not close. I would think some sort of rotational approach, with a consolidated "World Meet" approach at French Lick or at the Model A Museum might get more overall attendance. I also love any meets in Dearborn because there's an incredible amount of Ford history to see, and the V8 club has done some really cool things with driving tours and visits that cannot be duplicated anywhere else.

By mixing things up a bit as the V8 club does, I find that my wife and family are more willing to incorporate a meet into a vacation to see a new and unexplored location, and we generally attend more meets over the long haul that way. If it was just at French Lick, I'm guessing that by year two or three, I'd be going solo and only for a couple days.

Just my 2 cents...

Bruce

[Scott NY]

I have made mention many times to the MARC Board that they might look at moving the dates. If they want to get the youth involved this is a must. Up here in the northeast our kids just got done with school yesterday, many times in the past the meet was held on the week that our kids have their finals. This has prohibited me from bringing my family to these meets...just a thought

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by rons49

How do the folks in the West Coast& BC feel about that? I can agree that if no one except one chapter ever volunteers, so be it. It's over 2000 miles to Indiana from S California, not to mention that running a National Meet can, if run properly, be a cash cow. Each year a predetermined section of the US & Canada should be offered first shot. If no response by a advertised date, then all offers can be considered. Regarding Hershey, The AACA National HQ runs that one... that is where the organization is located, just like La Hambra Ca is "home" to MAFCA. Keep all areas of the membership active ... float the meets.

I am pretty sure you are in error on several things. The AACA National does NOT organize nor run the AACA Fall Meet. That is actually handled by the Hershey Region of AACA, ...just like the Hornets Nest Region of AACA operates the Charlotte Swap Meet and Car show. The AACA HQ nor the museum are affiliated directly with the Hershey Region.

Second, while you are correct that a meet could indeed make lots of money, IMHO that is NOT the purpose of these meets!! Matter of fact, it should be just the opposite. You have already heard complaints regarding costs. Suggesting these events need to be a 'cash cow' would be very detrimental to MARC Meet attendance.

Your comment regarding 2,000 miles from SoCal to IN is an accurate one, ...but ironically, the worst-attended MARC Meet in recent years was one held in San Diego a couple of years ago. I know because I made that 2,000 mile trek. While there were quite a few that came from the east coast, it seemed no one from California wanted to show up. That venue turned out to be a financial disaster for the hosts. I doubt anyone from SoCal is ready to host that again.




.

[Richard Wilson]

The geographical center of the 48 contiguous United States is near Lebanon, Kansas. The median population center of the United States per the 2010 census is Texas County, Missouri. Generally speaking, public schools are out the middle of June and start back in late August.

Perhaps someone should do a survey of either a MARC or MAFCA (as needed) membership roster and see where the majority of actual club members are located. Also, a survey of past national meets and locations as compared to attendance would be a good indicator of future meet success. To the casual observer, national meets in the corners of the country have lower attendance.

For those that might be "pushing" for a single location, I have read that the Great Smoky Mountains National Park (east TN and west NC) is the most visited national park in the nation. Advertising says it is within one days drive (modern car) for 65% of the US population. I know that Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg area has some type of car show (local, regional, and/or national) there almost every weekend in the summer. Of course that would limit most members from west of the Mississippi River.

One has to remember that "restored" Model A owners are a relatively small target group: limited by just one brand auto, just four years of manufacture, our autos are basically restored/rebuilt as manufactured with slight personal modifications, and by the advancing age of our membership which does limit what distance we are willing to travel to attend a meet, whether in our Model A or even our more modern autos.

I would like to see more of the MARC Charlottesville/Chattanooga "hub" style national tours. I have several long time Model A friends, and they all say that these two meets were the best "national" meets they had ever attended and they have been to many.

[Mike V. Florida]

The problem with a fixed location is if the location is too far to travel now it will be forever to far to travel. If the location rotates around the country it gives a greater chance for the different people to attend at least one meet in there lifetime.

Our region looked into hosting something here in South Florida. The trouble it there is no "guidebook" for those that never ran something this big to be sure all the avenues are met. Another problem for a South Florida national event it the lack of "model A" roads. Any one that has ever been here knows there are little "scenic" routes to be taken. The last and possibly greatest disadvantage is the distance one has to travel to get here. It is several hours from the top of the state to the Fort Lauderdale area. The northern part of the state actually has hills, while the only hills here are overpasses.

I guess my greatest fear is having it be such a flop that we will forever be known as such.

[Bob Johnson]

There are advantages and drawbacks to both fixed or random locations. I think the biggest advantage to a fixed meet is consistency. It would be well run and predictable. Everyone who know what to expect. With a random location some will be better than others. But the big drawback to a fixed location is that after a while the same people will end up attending the event. If the meet is moved around the country then it is more likely that different people will attend.

How about on even years it is at a fixed location (central part of country) and on odd years it is in the east or west. That way there is a stable consistent meet every other year and a chance to include more people the other years.

Does anyone have a MARC Membership Roster? A map of members locations could be made from the roster that would tell what the distribution of members is across the states.

Bob

[Bob Johnson]

Here is a map showing the number of MARC Regions in each state. It does not show the correct distribution of members but can give a rough guess of where the active members are located.

Bob

[Ken Ehrenhofer]

I have, and my family has, enjoyed using our vacation time and money to go to Model A National Meets. I look forward to bringing my grandchildren to them soon. If we do not go to someplace interesting for the whole family I am sure a lot of people/families will go elsewhere. I do not mind going to the same place but I am hearing this is to soon and two years in a row is unacceptable from the people I am talking to. We need a National Meet Region but they must be willing to support a region in Minnesota or Vermont or any where these wonderful meets might take us.
I loved French Lick and I would love to go back .....someday!
Yes I will always go to Hershey because it is a PARTS SWAP! I would go to Outer Mongolia for a parts swap....It is not the same....my family has never been to Hershey.......Just my thoughts, Ken

[spdway1]

Whoever recently called a member in our club was told "NO WAY", to bad because that is the feeling of few in our club and it was brought forward in a monthly meeting AFTER the fact. Some of us feel the wrong person was contacted, a topic like this should be brought up to the president first, not a random person.

The two National clubs should think about how a National Meet is operated, Take a look at AND MEET WITH the Goodguys Club and the American Truch Historical Society and make changes, yes changes. These two show formats would lessen the burden on the area host club, after all Model A members are not getting any younger.