The Ford Barn

Synchro909 · 05-05-2016, 05:53 AM

Guys, I need some advice!
I've just replaced the hard bonded linings on my front brake shoes with woven ones which I have riveted on. I managed to get one side together again afterwards but even with the adjustments backed all the way off and the clevis pin removed from the actuating arm, I an just turn the drum. I guess it will settle with time but it will get VERY hot for a while. The other side is worse. With the clevis pin removed and adjusting wedge would out to the stop, I cannot get the drum on. All of the shoes have gone back where they came from and the old linings had excellent contact with the drum. I've replaced the 3/16" bonded linings with standard 3/16" woven linings so they are no thicker and the ends of the linings have been chamfered. I replaced the original style actuating wedge guide with the ones with a floating pin - https://www.brattons.com/front-brake-floaters.html
I cannot see that they would be causing the problem, yet I cannot get the drum on. I'm considering removing a little metal from the back of the adjusting wedge to allow the shoes to come closer together at the top or maybe even shorten the pin the pushes the wedge. Ideas, comments and suggestions very welcome.

JBill · 05-05-2016, 07:06 AM

Are you sure the rollers and pins on the bottom are positioned correctly? Sometimes it's hard to see where things are actually riding. The floaters should have no effect. You didn't happen to replace the adjusting wedges did you? Some of the reproduction ones are not threaded properly so they cannot be fully retracted. I'm sure others on the board will have additional suggestions. Good luck.

rocket1 · 05-05-2016, 07:13 AM

It is hard to say what the problem could be ,I would not grind nor cut anything,if it worked before your going to have to track down the problem.I would put all the stock parts(original,not repro) back in and go from there.

Glenn C. · 05-05-2016, 10:20 AM

Quite often when a person rivets the woven linings to the shoes, the brake lining material is difficult to lay flat to the shoe between the rivets. Often after riveting you will see light between the lining and the shoe face. I try to start in the center, and work to each end while riveting, keeping everything tight with clamps.

Keith True · 05-05-2016, 12:15 PM

I see the light between the shoe and lining a lot.People get a little upset when I tell them I have to remove their linings and re-rivet them.I have a kick press riveter,and while I work from the center out,I do clamp the lining to the shoe with two pair of vice grips when riveting.I have had the problem of drums not fitting a couple of times,but the brake dokter cured that real fast.

ian Simpson · 05-05-2016, 04:02 PM

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Did you arc the new linings to the drums? Riveting using hand tools my have re-shaped the shoes a little. Also, consider that the new linings may too thick. Finally, if you have cast iron drums, you may have to relieve the outside edges of the linings so that they clear the inside corner radius of the drum.

Synchro909 · 05-05-2016, 05:26 PM

Thanks to those who have replied:
JBill, I'm confident the rollers are seated properly. I paid particular attention to that after an earlier experience.
Glen C. I worked from the centre when I riveted the linings and used clamps. I don't think there is anything wrong there.
ian simpson, I can't get the drum on far enough to worry about relieving the edges of the linings.
Cutting or grinding something is only done out of desperation. Over night, I decided to use some Prussian blue on the drums to see where the linings are touching and go from there. It'll be fiddly but I think the time will be well spent, especially after an emergency stop.

CWPASADENA · 05-05-2016, 05:46 PM

I would not want to use Prussian Blue on the drums as you may get some on the linings and this stuff has grease in it. It is essentially oil based paint.

It was asked before if you arced the linings. This needs to be done so the arc of the shoes match the arc of the drums. This process will take a little of material off the linings which is usually enough to allow you to install the drums.

Also, did you "center" the shoes properly. This needs to be done after the shoes are arced. If the shoes are a little too high or too low, this can also cause problems with getting the drums installed.

Woven linings will give you very good brakes but they must be properly arced and centered and everything else needs to be in good condition.

My experience and opinion,

Chris W

Synchro909 · 05-05-2016, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWPASADENA

I would not want to use Prussian Blue on the drums as you may get some on the linings and this stuff has grease in it. It is essentially oil based paint.

It was asked before if you arced the linings. This needs to be done so the arc of the shoes match the arc of the drums. This process will take a little of material off the linings which is usually enough to allow you to install the drums.

Also, did you "center" the shoes properly. This needs to be done after the shoes are arced. If the shoes are a little too high or too low, this can also cause problems with getting the drums installed.

Woven linings will give you very good brakes but they must be properly arced and centered and everything else needs to be in good condition.

My experience and opinion,

Chris W

Chris, Thanks for you r input.
I am aware that Prussian Blue is oil based but I'm using a very small amount, just enough to make a mark which is removed immediately by sanding off that area. Shoes are centred.
I've had the drum on and off about 6 times so far and I'm closing in on getting it but the next thing I do will be to remove a little from the plate in front of and behind the wedge that the rollers stop against. This kit is US made and very poor quality. The floating pins didn't even fit in the holes in the wedge guide, the pins had a nib on the end from when they were parted off from the parent stock which I had to remove before they would go into the wedge. Having to adjust this plate and washer is perfectly in keeping with the poor standard of the kit.

Glenn C. · 05-05-2016, 08:32 PM

A shaky can of flat primer will work just as well.

tbirdtbird · 05-05-2016, 09:27 PM

we use common chalk

Synchro909 · 05-05-2016, 10:09 PM

Chalk or primer would work fine, I imagine. I used the Prussian Blue because it was there. My father had a tin of it which ended up in my workshop when he died. Thanks, Dad.

Mike V. Florida · 05-06-2016, 12:01 AM

Are you also aware that there are two thicknesses of brake linings sold?

Synchro909 · 05-06-2016, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Are you also aware that there are two thicknesses of brake linings sold?

Yes, Mike I am. I used the standard 3/16" linings which are the same thickness as the bonded ones I took off. The car has near new cast drums on it so I didn't even consider the thicker ones. Thanks for the comment.

Tom Wesenberg · 05-08-2016, 04:01 PM

" I guess it will settle with time but it will get VERY hot for a while."

Never do this, as I tried it on my modern car, and had to replace both front bearing assemblies within a month. It was winter in Minnesota, so I figured the cold would be enough to allow the new pads to wear in to where the wheels could spin without drag. I should have sanded the new pads or removed the hardware and lubed it for the sliders, or done whatever was necessary to correct the tightness of the new pads.

Anyway, the bottom line is the heat from the tight pads burned out the grease and wheel bearings.

05-05-2016, 05:53 AM	#1
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	front brake assembly after reline Guys, I need some advice! I've just replaced the hard bonded linings on my front brake shoes with woven ones which I have riveted on. I managed to get one side together again afterwards but even with the adjustments backed all the way off and the clevis pin removed from the actuating arm, I an just turn the drum. I guess it will settle with time but it will get VERY hot for a while. The other side is worse. With the clevis pin removed and adjusting wedge would out to the stop, I cannot get the drum on. All of the shoes have gone back where they came from and the old linings had excellent contact with the drum. I've replaced the 3/16" bonded linings with standard 3/16" woven linings so they are no thicker and the ends of the linings have been chamfered. I replaced the original style actuating wedge guide with the ones with a floating pin - https://www.brattons.com/front-brake-floaters.html I cannot see that they would be causing the problem, yet I cannot get the drum on. I'm considering removing a little metal from the back of the adjusting wedge to allow the shoes to come closer together at the top or maybe even shorten the pin the pushes the wedge. Ideas, comments and suggestions very welcome. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood. Last edited by Synchro909; 05-05-2016 at 06:05 AM.

05-05-2016, 07:06 AM	#2
JBill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 702	Re: front brake assembly after reline Are you sure the rollers and pins on the bottom are positioned correctly? Sometimes it's hard to see where things are actually riding. The floaters should have no effect. You didn't happen to replace the adjusting wedges did you? Some of the reproduction ones are not threaded properly so they cannot be fully retracted. I'm sure others on the board will have additional suggestions. Good luck.

05-05-2016, 07:13 AM	#3
rocket1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Midland Park,N.J. Posts: 1,108	Re: front brake assembly after reline It is hard to say what the problem could be ,I would not grind nor cut anything,if it worked before your going to have to track down the problem.I would put all the stock parts(original,not repro) back in and go from there.

05-05-2016, 10:20 AM	#4
Glenn C. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Didsbury Alberta Posts: 838	Re: front brake assembly after reline Quite often when a person rivets the woven linings to the shoes, the brake lining material is difficult to lay flat to the shoe between the rivets. Often after riveting you will see light between the lining and the shoe face. I try to start in the center, and work to each end while riveting, keeping everything tight with clamps.

05-05-2016, 12:15 PM	#5
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,989	Re: front brake assembly after reline I see the light between the shoe and lining a lot.People get a little upset when I tell them I have to remove their linings and re-rivet them.I have a kick press riveter,and while I work from the center out,I do clamp the lining to the shoe with two pair of vice grips when riveting.I have had the problem of drums not fitting a couple of times,but the brake dokter cured that real fast.

05-05-2016, 04:02 PM	#6
ian Simpson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 709	Re: front brake assembly after reline Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Did you arc the new linings to the drums? Riveting using hand tools my have re-shaped the shoes a little. Also, consider that the new linings may too thick. Finally, if you have cast iron drums, you may have to relieve the outside edges of the linings so that they clear the inside corner radius of the drum.

05-05-2016, 05:26 PM	#7
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: front brake assembly after reline Thanks to those who have replied: JBill, I'm confident the rollers are seated properly. I paid particular attention to that after an earlier experience. Glen C. I worked from the centre when I riveted the linings and used clamps. I don't think there is anything wrong there. ian simpson, I can't get the drum on far enough to worry about relieving the edges of the linings. Cutting or grinding something is only done out of desperation. Over night, I decided to use some Prussian blue on the drums to see where the linings are touching and go from there. It'll be fiddly but I think the time will be well spent, especially after an emergency stop. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

05-05-2016, 05:46 PM	#8
CWPASADENA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: PASADENA, CA Posts: 1,884	Re: front brake assembly after reline I would not want to use Prussian Blue on the drums as you may get some on the linings and this stuff has grease in it. It is essentially oil based paint. It was asked before if you arced the linings. This needs to be done so the arc of the shoes match the arc of the drums. This process will take a little of material off the linings which is usually enough to allow you to install the drums. Also, did you "center" the shoes properly. This needs to be done after the shoes are arced. If the shoes are a little too high or too low, this can also cause problems with getting the drums installed. Woven linings will give you very good brakes but they must be properly arced and centered and everything else needs to be in good condition. My experience and opinion, Chris W Last edited by CWPASADENA; 05-05-2016 at 05:48 PM. Reason: TYPO

05-05-2016, 08:32 PM	#10
Glenn C. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Didsbury Alberta Posts: 838	Re: front brake assembly after reline A shaky can of flat primer will work just as well.

05-05-2016, 09:27 PM	#11
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: front brake assembly after reline we use common chalk __________________ '31 180A

05-05-2016, 10:09 PM	#12
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: front brake assembly after reline Chalk or primer would work fine, I imagine. I used the Prussian Blue because it was there. My father had a tin of it which ended up in my workshop when he died. Thanks, Dad. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

05-06-2016, 12:01 AM	#13
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: front brake assembly after reline Are you also aware that there are two thicknesses of brake linings sold? __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

05-08-2016, 04:01 PM	#15
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: front brake assembly after reline " I guess it will settle with time but it will get VERY hot for a while." Never do this, as I tried it on my modern car, and had to replace both front bearing assemblies within a month. It was winter in Minnesota, so I figured the cold would be enough to allow the new pads to wear in to where the wheels could spin without drag. I should have sanded the new pads or removed the hardware and lubed it for the sliders, or done whatever was necessary to correct the tightness of the new pads. Anyway, the bottom line is the heat from the tight pads burned out the grease and wheel bearings.