How much to rebuild a Model A engine?

[tbirdtbird]

"John Cosper (Pete's Auto Machine, Albuquerque) is apparently no longer active."
This is not a true statement.

[montanafordman]

I agree with others in that cost is not a great or fair comparison since there are so many options and so many great builders still have their own way of doing things. Reputation and referrals was a much more important thing for me than finding the cheapest, or most expensive, or most average costing job. With that said my build fell right in line with what others are charging which in my mind is a lot! (yet I also believe they are not getting rich off it, but they do quality work). I had a counterweighted crank and lightened flywheel included in that build among other things. Its a LOT of money but should last me through most of my Model A driving years and I'm still pretty young. I didn't want to regret skimping on certain features a few years down the line so I threw caution to the wind and went all in on the touring build. In my case the builder was local and has built MANY engines over the years for people all around the area who I tour with and all have had good experiences. Also should I have a problem I don't have to crate it up and ship it to another state, I can call him up and have him at my house that afternoon should there be a problem, and he stands behind his work. Many of the builders listed though I have no doubts do very good work and in other situations I wouldn't hesitate to call many of them who are listed. You get what you pay for in most cases, especially with a well known builder who has some referrals.

I would be cautious though throwing large sums of money at Mom&Pops rebuilding or Jim Bobs Garage with no real Model A following or experience - just make sure they speak Model A and find someone who has done business with them first and who has actually put REAL miles on their engines. You can go a lot of years and forget a lot of stuff on a marginal rebuild and never have serious issues if you only drive 8 blocks to ice cream and back for the months of June and July.

[Mike V. Florida]

Here we are on the second page and only one answer to how much for a stock "as Henry built it" rebuild.

Still think it is an easy question?

My opinion, Find a builder or two close to you, for shipping purposes, and then ask for emails on opinions about them. Many people won't publicly denounce someone but will give you an earful in private. Price be damned!

As a side note I would have no problem using anyone here on the fordbarn that freely gives of their time to attempt to help and educate us. They would put themselves out there as a target if they were screwing up engines. How many on the list in the first post do you see on the Fordbarn, the largest single place online for the stock Model A.

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by montanafordman

I agree with others in that cost is not a great or fair comparison since there are so many options and so many great builders still have their own way of doing things. Reputation and referrals was a much more important thing for me than finding the cheapest, or most expensive, or most average costing job. With that said my build fell right in line with what others are charging which in my mind is a lot! (yet I also believe they are not getting rich off it, but they do quality work). I had a counterweighted crank and lightened flywheel included in that build among other things. Its a LOT of money but should last me through most of my Model A driving years and I'm still pretty young. I didn't want to regret skimping on certain features a few years down the line so I threw caution to the wind and went all in on the touring build. In my case the builder was local and has built MANY engines over the years for people all around the area who I tour with and all have had good experiences. Also should I have a problem I don't have to crate it up and ship it to another state, I can call him up and have him at my house that afternoon should there be a problem, and he stands behind his work. Many of the builders listed though I have no doubts do very good work and in other situations I wouldn't hesitate to call many of them who are listed. You get what you pay for in most cases, especially with a well known builder who has some referrals.

I would be cautious though throwing large sums of money at Mom&Pops rebuilding or Jim Bobs Garage with no real Model A following or experience - just make sure they speak Model A and find someone who has done business with them first and who has actually put REAL miles on their engines. You can go a lot of years and forget a lot of stuff on a marginal rebuild and never have serious issues if you only drive 8 blocks to ice cream and back for the months of June and July.

I agree totally especially the Jim Bob Garage part. The last people you want working on your car is the guy that has to put down the wrenches to go to the gas pumps or do a wrecker call. Get to a true professional !
Wayne

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by montanafordman

I agree with others in that cost is not a great or fair comparison since there are so many options and so many great builders still have their own way of doing things. Reputation and referrals was a much more important thing for me than finding the cheapest, or most expensive, or most average costing job. With that said my build fell right in line with what others are charging which in my mind is a lot! (yet I also believe they are not getting rich off it, but they do quality work). I had a counterweighted crank and lightened flywheel included in that build among other things. Its a LOT of money but should last me through most of my Model A driving years and I'm still pretty young. I didn't want to regret skimping on certain features a few years down the line so I threw caution to the wind and went all in on the touring build. In my case the builder was local and has built MANY engines over the years for people all around the area who I tour with and all have had good experiences. Also should I have a problem I don't have to crate it up and ship it to another state, I can call him up and have him at my house that afternoon should there be a problem, and he stands behind his work. Many of the builders listed though I have no doubts do very good work and in other situations I wouldn't hesitate to call many of them who are listed. You get what you pay for in most cases, especially with a well known builder who has some referrals.

I would be cautious though throwing large sums of money at Mom&Pops rebuilding or Jim Bobs Garage with no real Model A following or experience - just make sure they speak Model A and find someone who has done business with them first and who has actually put REAL miles on their engines. You can go a lot of years and forget a lot of stuff on a marginal rebuild and never have serious issues if you only drive 8 blocks to ice cream and back for the months of June and July.

Originally Posted by C26Pinelake

I agree totally especially the Jim Bob Garage part. The last people you want working on your car is the guy that has to put down the wrenches to go to the gas pumps or do a wrecker call. Get to a true professional !
Wayne

I will also add to this, most modern repair and rebuild shops will take in a Model A/B/T engine to rebuild but will have absolutely no concept of the operation of these. Once they have your engine, they will hold it hostage for 6-12 months swearing they are getting it but are really trying to figure it out or find a shop like mine that will do the work cheap so they can charge a fair sum and make a profit. It won't happen in my case because I charge shops like this 25% more to try and impress upon them the fact that some things are best left to those who know. I have one from TX that went to a local shop for a valve job and had to be completely rebuilt because of ignorance. The shop didn't want to work on a dirty engine so, guess what, they dropped the block in a caustic tank.......no more babbitt. Fortunately, they they pulled it back out when the babbitt started bubbling and they knew something was wrong but, not before the damage was done. The owner found out about this and retrieved the engine and called me, it is fixed but, at a price. A 375$ valve job turned into 3600$ expense when you figure in shipping. Be careful and talk to your engine man, if he is competent, he won't mind and you can always have a collaborator for advice on your part and he will welcome your questions.

[Not George]

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Seems to me edmondclinton could have made thirteen phone calls, got the exact information he was after, listed the current pricing, posted the results and had a useful and informative post.
Instead, I believe, he's just another guy with nothing better to do, knows everything, wants to debate it and started a p!$$!ng match so he can do just that.
Save the drama for your mama.
Thanks to all that post useful information!

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by edmondclinton

Too lazy for that. Plus the prices on those sites may not be as fresh as what could be posted here, even if it's only an average. Some small businesses will leave up a lower price and inform you of a price increase when you inquire about the work and talk it over. I've seen Snyder do this with his catalog.

Edmond,
I guess you said it. . You obviously want a cheap price and are lazy . I don't think it's fair to ask every merchant to post their price just because you think you want everyone else to do your homework for you . These aren't a gallon of milk or a head of lettuce your pricing... Oh and by the way they change every week . Having done them myself I know parts prices change but most rebuilders hold their prices as much as possible . There are many variables , and if you want a few prices you got them from Steve and Jim... And some other very good answers . If you want a particular rebuilder they all have their cost of business and charge what they feel they have to . Pick your choice. If your incredibly cheap you picked the wrong hobby

In my humble opinion this is a bad thread .
Everyone is located where they are, so shipping is a factor , and there are stock engine prices as AER has posted, but you are too lazy to check out.
Rich at AER doesn't post on here and is probably to busy earning an honest living, so go check the websites and make the calls if you want prices.
It takes an incredible amount of equipment and talent to do what they do, and as those have stated, no one gets rich, their just earning a living.
Larry Shepard

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by edmondclinton

I understand perfectly why the prices are what they are and the use of the word Vaseline was only meant as a joke. Moreover, the majority of the Model A crowd has a history of not wanting to pay high prices and will often balk and perceive almost any price as being too high no matter what reason is given for it. The main purpose for my 1st post was to get builders to state a price for the basic turn key job so members could maybe see it all in one place and that's all.

Yes, I suppose there are some within the hobby that do not want to pay high prices, -or perceive a price too high. Unfortunately that mindset is shared throughout many commodities in our everyday life, and not just with Model-As.

I will share a little analogy that very likely applies in the Model-A hobby too. As you may know, our other family hobby is racing cars, and there is a saying within the sport that goes like this. 'Most people race two classes above what they can truly afford!", ...and I think that same mindset applies to Model-A ownership!! Many hobbyists cannot honestly afford to own a Model-A and properly maintain it.

In a recent conversation with a fellow Fordbarner, he shared with me where he recently had a potential customer make a comment where that customer started out their conversation how he was on a fixed income and felt my Fordbarn friend needed to give him a discount due to his financial condition. I believe that conversation was ended with a statement to the effect that maybe that Gentleman needed to get out of the Model-A hobby and consider collecting Baseball cards or Matchbox cars which were more in-line with his financial abilities. A message that some will no doubt find brutal however a truthful message that some folks need to hear!

Originally Posted by edmondclinton

Even though it was only meant as a joke to draw attention, I removed the word Vaseline from the title.

Thank you. I apologize since guess I did not realize you meant it as joke.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Sure wish we could just buy a rebuilt Model A engine from China.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Sure wish we could just buy a rebuilt Model A engine from China.

that would come complete with duck sauce not VAS

[Model A Man]

I know very little about rebuilding motors let alone model A motors. I know it is comparing apples to oranges but I have a hard time understanding why you can get a rebuilt Chevy 350/327 motor for $1500.00 and it has double the piston and heads and yet cost less than half of getting a model A motor rebuilt. Just me wondering out loud.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by edmondclinton

Too lazy for that. Plus the prices on those sites may not be as fresh as what could be posted here, even if it's only an average. Some small businesses will leave up a lower price and inform you of a price increase when you inquire about the work and talk it over. I've seen Snyder do this with his catalog.

To be fair to Snyder's (and other vendors) they do state right there on the cover of their catalog "Prices Subject To Change Without Notice".

[jrelliott]

Every penny spent with a reputable rebuilder using top quality parts is worth the price. When had my engine rebuilt in 2006 by Byers shop in Rochester MN with babbiting done by member of Lady Slipper's A's was over $3000. Crank was reused, but a lot of other parts new. Had the engine completely balanced with flywheel and clutch attached. It had already been changed to V8 clutch. Wish now had installed counterbalanced crank. The engine is smooth and runs great. So looking at James Rodgers price now is a bargain. Quality machine work is not cheap and when rebuilding to Henry's specs takes a quality shop.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Model A Man

I know very little about rebuilding motors let alone model A motors. I know it is comparing apples to oranges but I have a hard time understanding why you can get a rebuilt Chevy 350/327 motor for $1500.00 and it has double the piston and heads and yet cost less than half of getting a model A motor rebuilt. Just me wondering out loud.

I have built lots of both. The chev engines is easier. Plus the parts are much less, because of the quantity. There is a lot of small block chev engines being built. A lot of small blocks are being rebuilt in a factory.

[James Rogers]

I agree with George, there have been small block Chevys since 1954 and the motor didn't change but little. How many still survive in any state of existence? I suspect, there have been more of these built in the 50 years than Ford could have EVER dreamed being built of any one type of engine. Parts for these have swamped the market to the extent that a set of pistons can be had for less than a set of repo Model A pistons and there are 8 of them. A crank can be had for as little as 129.95$, try that with a Model A crank. Hell, it costs me 100 to get one re-ground and the fuel to drop it off and go get it.

Apples to cannon balls.

[Royce P]

Degreasing, cleaning and inspection of all parts including magnaflux crack testing of crankshaft.
Resurfaced deck and manifold face
Regrind crankshaft
Installation of unleaded valve seats and new valve guides
New alloy valves, springs, retainers and lifters
Rebabbitted main bearings and align boring with full laminated shim stack
Rebabbitted connecting rods with rebushed wrist pin
Rebored to next oversize on piston bores
New alloy pistons and rings
New crank gear and laminated timing gear
Reground cam with adjustable lifters
Assembly and painting
Short block rebuild options include:

• Metal timing gear
• Straight sided valves and conventional valve guides
• New Model B Camshaft or a driver regrind camshaft
• Larger valve head diameter and ported valve ports

Pricing
$2632.00

http://mrmodelt.com/product-1.htm

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

... it costs me $100 to get one [crank] re-ground and the fuel to drop it off and go get it...

And if you live in Alaska, it cost $100 just to ship it to someone to get the work done. Oh, and that's just to get it there, another $100 to get it back home,

[edmondclinton]

Originally Posted by Not George

Seems to me edmondclinton could have made thirteen phone calls, got the exact information he was after, listed the current pricing, posted the results and had a useful and informative post.
Instead, I believe, he's just another guy with nothing better to do, knows everything, wants to debate it and started a p!$$!ng match so he can do just that.
Save the drama for your mama.
Thanks to all that post useful information!

I'm amazed at your statements above. If you had read my posts you would have seen that I said, "The main purpose for my 1st post was to get builders to state a price for the basic turn key job so members could maybe see it all in one place and that's all."

Then you said, "Instead, I believe, he's just another guy with nothing better to do, knows everything, wants to debate it and started a p!$$!ng match so he can do just that.
Save the drama for your mama"

Could not the same be said about you? Why is healthy debate and defense of one's position considered drama and a P match?

[Cool Hand Lurker]

I recently had mine rebuilt with inserts by Dave Gerold in Minnesota and the price was comparable to those quoted. His shop was top notch and clean. The factors you can't put a price on like attitude, communication, judging when a part needs to be replaced and explaining why, makes it all worthwhile.

Every time I rebuilt a motor and took a shortcut it came back to bite me. I only did them for my own use and when the bite came back it was me who said "Ouch!"

I feel good with the motor Doctor Dave did and am now confident to take to the road knowing I will get back home again. Priceless!

But I suppose it could have been cheaper at Walmart but Edmond did not list that one. Time for an attitude adjustment?

[Ryan]

Idiots argue on the internet. Are you an idiot? You are not welcomed here.