Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-13-2020, 05:07 PM   #21
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,374
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I have a brand new set of off shore made hollow lifters in the shop now for refacing. This customer does this routinely. They come TAPERED, NOT radiused. That means they are cone shaped. NOT spherical like a ball. He just does not trust the original surface finish.

And yes the early Isky lifters were spherical. He soon found that didn't work though. The later ones were tapered.
The spherical ones would trap no oil film because the contact area was too small. That also resulted in extremely high contact pressure.

Very early Ford lifters were flat. Later they ground them on a 96 inch radius which is close enough to tapered that they trapped a boundry layer of oil and worked ok.

Last edited by Pete; 07-13-2020 at 05:52 PM.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2020, 05:45 PM   #22
Step-down
Senior Member
 
Step-down's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hat City (Danbury CT)
Posts: 647
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

This is a education and can’t thank everyone enough for taking the time to post a worth of knowledge .

The old Harley all had fixed Solid roller lifter . I beat one of you Hot Rod Flathead builder must Run something like that .
Again I’m just an old retired Iron Worker from NYC having fun learning from a bunch of very knowledgeable guys

Thanks again
__________________
"I can't cry as long as I know the Lord has risen "
Step-down is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-14-2020, 04:05 PM   #23
meric42
Senior Member
 
meric42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Blenheim, New Zealand
Posts: 869
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I have a new set of Bob Drake adjustable lifters and presume that they fall in to the 'off shore' category? I suppose I should trash these as not suitable for the job then? Your input welcomed as I have been accumulating parts for a 99A factory relieved block and a 4" Merc crank.
__________________
I need an 01A 1453 Brkt Spare wheel hold down for my sedan delivery - PLEASE HELP

Gotta love my '42 Sedan Delivery's - Now that I own the only two in New Zealand

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/album.php?albumid=580
meric42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 04:33 PM   #24
Phil Gillespie
Senior Member
 
Phil Gillespie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Christchurch New Zealand
Posts: 1,603
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by meric42 View Post
I have a new set of Bob Drake adjustable lifters and presume that they fall in to the 'off shore' category? I suppose I should trash these as not suitable for the job then? Your input welcomed as I have been accumulating parts for a 99A factory relieved block and a 4" Merc crank.
Perhaps you may be able to have a hardness test carried out to assist with your
decission.
Phil NZ
Phil Gillespie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 05:14 PM   #25
Lawrie
Senior Member
 
Lawrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Qld, Australia
Posts: 4,197
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

We run roller followers in our dragster, they have done a few seasons and still look like new.
Lawrie
Lawrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 05:32 PM   #26
Step-down
Senior Member
 
Step-down's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hat City (Danbury CT)
Posts: 647
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Merc42 test like Phil said .

Laurie roller lifters in a ford flathead nice ...
__________________
"I can't cry as long as I know the Lord has risen "
Step-down is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 05:44 PM   #27
Lawrie
Senior Member
 
Lawrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Qld, Australia
Posts: 4,197
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

We also have them in a holden 202
They work well, no link bar or that type of stuff.
Lawrie
Lawrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 11:35 AM   #28
35fordtn
Senior Member
 
35fordtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McMinnville, TN
Posts: 2,327
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Again, what’s wrong with original non adjustable lifters??
35fordtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 11:45 AM   #29
Ross F-1
Senior Member
 
Ross F-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NM
Posts: 2,438
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster View Post
Are you sure those solid body lifters are off shore? Reason I ask the only off shore lifters I have seen are hollow copies of the Johnson lifter. The solid lifters I recall were US made. Anyone else know for sure if the solid lifters are offshore?
Ronnieroadster
Sealed Power makes and sells the heavier solid adjustables, last set I bought said Made in USA and "each lifter hardness tested". They looked like quality parts.

On the OP's lifters, I have to wonder if they'd pass a hardness test, but are too soft under a thin layer of hardened metal at the surface? No telling what alloy the Chinese use.
__________________
'52 F-1, EAB flathead
Ross F-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 11:46 AM   #30
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 10,260
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross F-1 View Post
Sealed Power makes and sells the heavier solid adjustables, last set I bought said Made in USA and "each lifter hardness tested". They looked like quality parts.

On the OP's lifters, I have to wonder if they'd pass a hardness test, but are too soft under a thin layer of hardened metal at the surface? No telling what alloy the Chinese use.
We could try asking the American company who is having them built to their specifications.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 11:47 AM   #31
GOSFAST
Senior Member
 
GOSFAST's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,052
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
Again, what’s wrong with original non adjustable lifters??
I can think of one reason to have the adjustables, in the event of a "ticking" lifter (it can happen even with the "fixed" lifters) it becomes much easier to adjust the noise out??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. To fix a ticking valve with a non-adjustable lifter is a major repair, this is just my own take on it? I am aware of the "thousands" that were running around back when, but do I prefer the option!
GOSFAST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 11:49 AM   #32
35fordtn
Senior Member
 
35fordtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McMinnville, TN
Posts: 2,327
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOSFAST View Post
I can think of one reason to have the adjustables, in the event of a "ticking" lifter (it can happen even with the "fixed" lifters) it becomes much easier to adjust the noise out??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. To fix a ticking valve with a non-adjustable lifter is a major repair, this is just my own take on it? I am aware of the "thousands" that were running around back when, but do I prefer the option!

Understand.. But I would imagine is the valves are ground properly, there would never be a chance of a ticking lifter. For me they are easier with the right tools than adjustables.
35fordtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 11:50 AM   #33
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 10,260
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I'm not an engine builder, but if you do get a "tick" with a non-adjustable lifter, wouldn't it be due to improper installation? And if it happens "down the road", wouldn't it be a sign of something going wrong in the valve train?
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 11:53 AM   #34
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,013
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

In looking at the lifters that you show - they appear to be "solid", not the hollow re-pop ones that we've all seen from China. So - they are not necessarily from China, they can be on-shore and they may have wear issues for a variety of reasons ---> hardness, break-in, the way the cam was ground, oil-used, etc..

Also, given that your cam was wearing into those lifters, the profile is probably not correct anymore (on the nose of each lobe), so you may experience the same problem the "next go round". Personally, I would not put new lifters on a cam that previously had that sort of wear pattern on the lifters you show. I'd have the cam checked out.

There is really no way to know what caused your specific issue.. Do you know who manufactured the lifters? Also, who manufactured the cam and were they both installed at the same time?
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 12:47 PM   #35
GOSFAST
Senior Member
 
GOSFAST's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,052
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Curious if the OP could put a couple "close-up" shots of the "tops" of the lifters where the valve stems reside? I have some used adjustable lifters here that are "telling me a story" so to speak!

I see a potential issue with the non "Johnson" tappets that may be causing many of the failures we're seeing, not 100% sure, but I see a definite "design-flaw" in the off-shore pieces! It was actually mentioned to me a while back by my friend Paul over at "Topline"!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I'll have more on this subject if the OP can get that shot or two of the tops!
GOSFAST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 01:32 PM   #36
35fordtn
Senior Member
 
35fordtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McMinnville, TN
Posts: 2,327
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I dont/Wont use adjustables but two local flathead engine builders buy all their parts from us at the shop. I have let them try different brands and the ones they liked the most and the ones we stock are Made in Turkey.... And believe me if you saw what the outside of their Building in turkey looked like, you'd spit your lunch out.

Last edited by 35fordtn; 07-15-2020 at 01:37 PM.
35fordtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 02:41 PM   #37
Step-down
Senior Member
 
Step-down's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hat City (Danbury CT)
Posts: 647
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

No history on the motor but I will take your advise and see if I can have someone check the Cam (max 1)
Cant put me finder on this build , someone spent a lot of money with all the machine work , soup to nuts but didn’t clean out the coolant system .
Everything is brand new inside with only a dusting inside the motor. I’ve done some quick numbers and everything looks good.
The motor was overheating (I’m told) so I pressure tested both sides and held 20 lbs over night .

Now the Cam either the cam wasn’t dialed in or it’s dead nuts on . I will know soon after it’s cleaned I’m going to mock it up .

I will post some more pictures tonight

Thank you everyone for taking the time to post
__________________
"I can't cry as long as I know the Lord has risen "
Step-down is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 03:32 PM   #38
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,374
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
Again, what’s wrong with original non adjustable lifters??
Nothing....Try turning 8100 with adjustables in a race engine.

Not too much wrong with adjustables for a mild street engine that willl never see 4000 rpm, EXCEPT for a couple of things these days. That is the quality of the holllow ones and weight of the solid ones.

Most people building flatheads these days are doing mild street engines and have been brainwashed by the media that you need adjustable lifters to go fast.
The biggest selling point for adjustables is, they can be installed by anyone in their back yard with no special tools other than a common nail. There are very few shops left that have the tools and the knowledge to install stock lifters any more. In fact, there are very few shops doing flathead Ford engines any more.

Just for the record, stock lifters can be adjusted in HALF the time it takes to do a set of adjustables and the "ticking" argument is like saying, the beer supply is going to run out. Sells lots of lifters though.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 03:38 PM   #39
35fordtn
Senior Member
 
35fordtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McMinnville, TN
Posts: 2,327
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
Nothing....Try turning 8100 with adjustables in a race engine.

Not too much wrong with adjustables for a mild street engine that willl never see 4000 rpm, EXCEPT for a couple of things these days. That is the quality of the holllow ones and weight of the solid ones.

Most people building flatheads these days are doing mild street engines and have been brainwashed by the media that you need adjustable lifters to go fast.
The biggest selling point for adjustables is, they can be installed by anyone in their back yard with no special tools other than a common nail. There are very few shops left that have the tools and the knowledge to install stock lifters any more. In fact, there are very few shops doing flathead Ford engines any more.

Just for the record, stock lifters can be adjusted in HALF the time it takes to do a set of adjustables and the "ticking" argument is like saying, the beer supply is going to run out. Sells lots of lifters though.
Pete, Thanks.. All this talk about everyone using only adjustable lifters made me wonder

I agree that once I was schooled and acquired the old trick tools for the job, I can do a set of non adjustables in less than a hour, and I'm not building these things every day or week like you guys. Adjustables always take me longer and many cuss words are said when using them.... for me anyways...

After two bad experiences I'll NEVER use adjustables again, and not have to worry about them loosening up..
35fordtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 03:53 PM   #40
JeffB2
Senior Member
 
JeffB2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Phoenix,AZ
Posts: 1,417
Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I think I read a while back on the H.A.M.B. that they do lifter restoration here maybe they offer a hardening process maybe call and ask https://www.deltacam.com/
JeffB2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27 AM.