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Old 07-25-2017, 05:14 PM   #1
Houdini
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Default How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

I need to find a good replacement 19 inch wheel and will be going to a local swap meet this coming weekend.

I can certainly look carefully at wheels to see if there are cracks and worn lug bolt holes, but I'm trying to figure out a simple way, or jig I can make to check to see if the wheel will run straight.

One wheel that I am not using is too out of alignment and wobbles too much (run out). Another wheel I have has cracks on the inner hub that I don't like. That one has been welded before by the previous owner and re-cracked. So, to be clear, I'm not looking for ways to fix the current wheels, but a way to evaluate an unmounted swap meet wheel.

I've mounted wheels on the car and turned them using a dial indicator to see how out of line they are in terms of side wobble, but I am trying to figure out how to do a simple test, or make a simple jig, to use at a swap meet where I don't have the car there to mount it and test. I don't have an extra axle and wheel drum. Any ideas?
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

I think everyone has had the same problem including me. Short of having a jig of some kind I don't see how you could check for run out. How much run out and wheel hop do you consider except able.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

A wheel without a tire can be rolled on a smooth surface and you just watch and listen. I rolled mine on the garage floor, if they wobbled or bounced or any funny noises, more work was needed. If there is a tire on the rim, it can hide some nasty rust!
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

I made this device to check wheel runout.
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File Type: jpg wheel trueness checker.jpg (45.5 KB, 144 views)
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:57 PM   #5
Chris Haynes
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

I bought five 1935 16" rims. It only cost $650.00 to have them straightened to run true. Then an additional $500.00 to have two of them widened 2".
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

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a side from the obvious rusty-cracked -bent spokes - welds-dents in wheels you should always carry a dime with you if the dime falls through the lug nut holes the wheel is bad unless you use the fancy washers
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

Most vendors have lots of wheels at a swap meet. Quickest way is to first sort the wheels with no hub cracks and no wallowed out lug holes, or rim damage. Stacking the wheels on top of each other to check for straightness and roundness against each other. The bent ones will standout. Bent spokes are easy to straighten. Rusted thin valve stem holes can be redrilled at another location and the old hole welded up. Loose spokes can be welded on the inside of the rim. Don't pass on these easy to fix wheels that others discount as less desirable. Remember a good wheel is considered to have no more then 1/8" wobble or hop. There are lots of good wheels out there. This year in Chickasha I bought a perfect 30/31 wheel with original black paint that was covered in dust and dirt. Looked like it was stored inside since new. Hamilton stamp looked sharp still protected by paint. Could pass for NOS. When the guy told me any wheel for $20 I was sold. Came home with several.
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Old 07-25-2017, 07:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

Thanks for all the responses so quickly.
I agree, that I don't want more than 1/8 round-out, preferably less.
The jig that 2manycars has is just the ticket, but I don't have a way to make that.
I'm thinking of laying a short piece of 2 x 2 steel across the inside hub and then measure with a dial indicator the distance between the steel and the outer rim, moving the 2x2 steel around the wheel to see how much variation between the inner hub and outer wheel rim. It won't account for other errors, or bent wheel.

As for rolling the bare wheel, this swap meet is on gravel roads and grass and dirt areas, so no smooth areas, but it does give me some thought to take the wheel to an area where there is some smooth cement, which I'll have to look for.

I have an unmounted wheel that has too many cracks in the inside hub, but doesn't have much run-out, so will give that a try by rolling it in my shop.
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Old 07-25-2017, 07:28 PM   #9
Marshall V. Daut
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

Although some restorers will wince at this suggestion, use your one marginal wheel as the spare and put the best four on the ground. The spare is mostly for decoration anyway (unless you are into long tours!) and is only used in an emergency roadside repair to get you home. Make the wheel as cosmetically pleasing as possible and mount it on the spare tire carrier.
This works, of course, only if the other four wheels check out o.k. And since you are only in need of one wheel, I am assuming the remaining four are acceptable?
Keep looking for a good rim, but in the meantime don't discount using the less-than-desirable one as your spare until the right wheel comes along, maybe tomorrow, maybe in three years. Who knows? As one wise man said: "An ounce of image is worth a pound of performance." It only has to LOOK good to pass muster.
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Old 07-25-2017, 08:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

You can cut a round piece of 3/4 plywood larger than the rim, then cut two smaller pieces larger than the outer load bearing surface of the center hub, then screw them together.
When you set the wheel on the raised center it will sit upon it and the wheel rim should be about 1/4" from touching the large piece of plywood, measurements could then be made.

Or if you have something flat to check the rim only, and it is determined to be flat, you can then take a straight edge, or piece of steel,, or a 24" ruler and c-clamp a smaller ruler to that at 90 degrees, so when the long ruler is laid across the rim. you can measure the depth to the inner and outer load bearing surfaces of the inner hub.

You should be able to determine if it is straight or not.

I would also have to have optivisors, or I wouldn't be able to see much of anything.
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Old 07-25-2017, 08:47 PM   #11
Ray in La Mesa
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

All great visual tips on inspecting wheels,here is an added audible tip. To check for tension and unseen cracks in spokes or end separated end welds, take your pocket knife or other 2oz-'3oz metal object and tap each spoke. The long should all be one tone & short all another tone. I have found quite a few undetected flaws this way, plus, you will be entertaining those within hearing distance.
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:00 PM   #12
Bruce Adams
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

All good ideas above. I would add hitting with a heavy wrench and it should RING like a BELL.
Also a DIME should not pass through the lug holes.
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

Lots of great tips here. Thank you.
I actually have two bad wheels (in my opinion). Originally, out of the 5 wheels I had, 3 were bad. That left me with 2 reasonably good ones. A club member was nice enough to give me a spare he had, which is my best wheel, no cracks and runs true.
That left me with one axle without a wheel. The first pick of my 3 bad ones, turned out to be a wheel that had too much run out, about 1/4 inch and you could visually see it wobble down the road. That became my spare. The wheel on the car has very little run out, but some cracks (3 to be exact.) So as a minimum I want to replace the wheel with the cracks that is currently on the car, but preferably, also replace the spare too. The 3rd bad wheel does not have a tire mounted on it, as it has about 6 cracks around the hub, not good at all, but it has very little run out, about .080 thousands.

I'll try your ideas on my unmounted, bare wheel that has all the cracks, to see how I can measure run-out, since I did that test with a dial indicator with the wheel mounted on the car to test its run-out, and see if I can duplicate what I already know about that wheel. I'll post what I end up doing.
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Old 07-26-2017, 02:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

I went to a garage sale that listed Model A wheels and brought along a wheel that I knew to be dead straight in all dimensions for comparison purposes. This worked very well for the purpose in that setting but hauling the wheel around the expanse of a large swap meet would be a burden.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:18 AM   #15
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

If you buy them cheap enough, just buy extras-far less expensive then taking them to a shop for truing.
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:08 AM   #16
Kevin in NJ
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

A lug nut to check the depth, but that should not be a show stopper cause you just get the washers.

Really, overall condition is the best way to evaluate.

First is rust. High marks for wheels with no rust on visible surfaces. They are a PIA to level.

Functionally rust in the rubber areas is a show stopper in my book. Not minor stuff, but the real bumpy stuff. Not sure if this is critical, but I really prefer a smooth surface where the rubber rides.

Bent spokes and how bent. Straightening spokes is no biggy. But a lot could mean a damaged bent rim.

The hub face where it contacts the brake drum. This is really an engineered structure. The wheel and the drum form a box section and add structure. Cracks here I feel are reason to not bother with that wheel. Not worth it. It also MUST be smooth, no paint or very little or it will distort the drum. This is based on my experience using a dial indicator. It does not take much to put .010" distortion on the drum.

Please keep in mind from the factory the wheels were allowed .125". The Model axles have a lot of unsprung weight. They can handle more problems then the more modern axles without giving you nasty side effects.

A far as being bent. I was going through my pile of rims (a larger pile) and measured like 25 of the none rusty wheels. None were bent close to or over the factory limits. I believe that if you do not see physical damage on a rim or spokes then I believe (generally speaking) that it is unlikely to find the rim beyond factory specs.

I would consider any none rusty wheels with lug nuts where the taper does not go through the to the other side and where thing tube area has minor rust (I think most have something) as being very very good candidates. Price starts dropping rapidly as you add in pitting or playing with more than a few bent spokes as the labor to make them nice goes way up.

FWIW, I have found doing electrolytic rust removal which also removes some and loosened a lot of paint on any wheel saves 50% or more in time sandblasting. The A wheel fits in a TP tools 960 blast cabinet.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

I got a stand that I made with a front spindle welded on to it with a bare hub and good lug bolts. I use this for checking straightness and also sand blasting and painting.
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Old 07-31-2017, 10:22 AM   #18
Houdini
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

I went to the swap meet as planned this weekend, but only saw one 19 inch wheel. It looked very nice, all cleaned up and sand blasted etc. No cracks that I could see. Some spokes were bent though. I used the jig I made to check run out between the hub and rim and found it was too out of align for my taste, over an 1/8 inch. I decided to pass on it, not sure if I could straighten it out enough or not, plus the price was way too high based on the run out and bent spokes. I'll keep looking.

But I promised to post what I came up with to check the run out. Of course, this is not perfect and it would depend on how clean, smooth, the hub and rim are, plus any bends or damage to the rim edge.

The pictures below are with one of my bad, cracked wheels, and it does have some bent rim edges, but its for example purposes only. The square steel tubing is 2 x 2. The holes were already in this piece that I had and the one 3/8 hole that I used as an "axle" was already drilled. I cut a 3/4 piece of wood and turned it on my lathe to fit the hub. The bolt is loose to provide an axle, so its not tightened down, just dropped in. It seems to keep the setup pretty accurate as I turn it around the entire rim, looking to see where the high and low spots are and how much difference there is between them. I try and put my dial gauge in the middle of the bead area of the rim, as that is where the tire will press against and show how the tire will seat and wobble or not wobble on the road. I suppose you could measure other areas too. It's simple and accurate enough to see if there is major runout, without mounting the wheel to the car. Hope this might help someone else.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Wheel test jig 1.jpg (101.2 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg Wheel test jig 2.jpg (118.2 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Wheel test jig 3.jpg (112.0 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg Wheel test jig 4.jpg (55.0 KB, 35 views)
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Old 07-31-2017, 10:40 AM   #19
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: How to evaluate wheels at swap meet

Hi Houdini,

One Model A wheel inspection concern to consider ..... for showmanship and appearance ...... remember that thick wheel paint can be similar to Hillary's thick facial make-up prior to her TV appearances.

Does this sound like a 1930's leftover magician's trick?
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