The Ford Barn

1938 Coupe · 01-03-2015, 06:55 PM

I replaced my steering wheel with a banjo type wheel. I pulled the horn button
after dismantling the light switch and removing the 4 bolts that held the whole thing together. After putting on the new steering wheel and locking nut I wanted to take it for a test ride without replacing the horn button. I was going to clean and repaint everything but the horn button itself. I figured the car would be fine without replacing those items until I could have time to paint them.
The more I drove the car around the steering was getting more and more play in it. Now it is unsafe to drive and you can move the wheel more than a half turn each way before the front wheels will respond. What happened and how can I fix this?
Any help here will be appreciated!....Thanks

Andy · 01-03-2015, 07:04 PM

It may be that those 4 bolts held the lower bearing retainer which held the lower bearing in place. Without that part the oil will run out and the lower bearing will likely fall out. You may need the bearing plus a gasket kit. I hope no damage was done to the other parts.

JSeery · 01-03-2015, 07:27 PM

The four bolts you removed (if they were the ones on the bottom of the housing) are what hold the steering box together. You are very lucky you didn't have more trouble than you appear to have had! Are the parts all still there? That plate retains the bearing and sets the adjustment, so there may be several issues to resolve now. You need to determine if any parts are missing, then if the bearing will go back into place and also if there is any damage to the bearing races. Then you are going to have to recheck the bearing load to assure it is correct. These is adjusted by the number of gaskets between the cover and the housing. Also have to see if any of the existing gaskets are damaged and need to be replaced. It is possible that the steering box is so damaged that it will have to be totally rebuilt.

Snouts out · 01-04-2015, 04:14 AM

Does your horn button have the rod attached? If it does,I don't get it.You drop the column,remove the light switch spider & pull the rod with button attached,being careful not to bend the rod.After going through that,why not replace it & deal with the light switch ?

Kahuna · 01-04-2015, 01:33 PM

Snouts correct
No need to dismantle the box to remove the rod and button

1938 Coupe · 01-05-2015, 12:38 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

The four bolts you removed (if they were the ones on the bottom of the housing) are what hold the steering box together. You are very lucky you didn't have more trouble than you appear to have had! Are the parts all still there? That plate retains the bearing and sets the adjustment, so there may be several issues to resolve now. You need to determine if any parts are missing, then if the bearing will go back into place and also if there is any damage to the bearing races. Then you are going to have to recheck the bearing load to assure it is correct. These is adjusted by the number of gaskets between the cover and the housing. Also have to see if any of the existing gaskets are damaged and need to be replaced. It is possible that the steering box is so damaged that it will have to be totally rebuilt.

From what I can see it doesn't appear to have any missing parts but I'm not sure what it should look like. What happened when I drove it a brass tube still attached to the 4 bolt cover came out of the steering box. Nothing else seems to have fallen out, but not sure what the bearing looked like and could it have fallen out with the brass rod still attached to the cover? Gaskets are still there on the cover. If the steering box is damaged does anyone sell rebuilt ones?

JSeery · 01-05-2015, 01:25 PM

If the tube remained the bearing is still in there. If the gaskets look ok I would put the bolts back in and see how it steers. Might have to move the steering around while you tighten it up. The box should have been filled with lube, need to add some gear lube and try it,

Mart · 01-05-2015, 01:32 PM

If the brass tube came out, you will have lost any lube that was in the box. If the tube has been loose for a while, there probably wasn't any lube left anyway.

Mart.

JSeery · 01-05-2015, 01:33 PM

Some views of the box if you don't have any. Note: Some of these are different years, but the insides are the same.

1938 Coupe · 01-05-2015, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

If the tube remained the bearing is still in there. If the gaskets look ok I would put the bolts back in and see how it steers. Might have to move the steering around while you tighten it up. The box should have been filled with lube, need to add some gear lube and try it,

Thanks....I have a feeling there was no lube oil because nothing leaked out when taken apart. Looks like they packed it with grease which seems to be common in the day if the box leaked. I'll give it a try!

1938 Coupe · 01-05-2015, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

Some views of the box if you don't have any. Note: Some of these are different years, but the insides are the same.

Thanks...these pictures help understand what I am looking at while looking for missing parts. I think all the parts stayed in place because they were held in by grease not lube oil....lucky me!

JSeery · 01-05-2015, 01:44 PM

They do pack them with grease and the grease will not properly lube the gears! To test it just add some lube to it (STP will also work). If everything is ok, you can clean the grease out at a future date.

The bottom cover plate (the one with the four bolts) pushes against the lower bearing race. That is what the gasket/shims adjust, the distance the bearing race is pushed up into the housing (bearing load). If the steering was extremely loose the raise moved out a little. I would guess it would not take much to really loosen up the steering! So if the race is still in the housing, most likely it just needs to be pushed back up into place and the cover tighten down. Yep, the grease may have saved you, but it is not a good long term lubricant, needs some type of gear oil in it.

George/Maine · 01-05-2015, 02:40 PM

If you put the same shims back in it may return to the way it was.
What I think you did was loosen the plate so you could tighten the steering wheel.
The bottom of wheel is hitting the steering tube.
Remove steering wheel and return to the original.
You may have bent plate on bottom.

JSeery · 01-05-2015, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George/Maine

If you put the same shims back in it may return to the way it was.
What I think you did was loosen the plate so you could tighten the steering wheel.
The bottom of wheel is hitting the steering tube.
Remove steering wheel and return to the original.
You may have bent plate on bottom.

What? How would loosing the lower plate make any difference in the length of the steering shaft? The length is controlled by the upper bearing. You could make the shaft shorter by lowering it, but you can't make it longer!

George/Maine · 01-05-2015, 02:52 PM

When you tighten the wheel the bottom is hitting the column.
The shaft is no longer between the 2 bearing. My guess.

35 coupe · 01-05-2015, 02:55 PM

Maybe you lost the key in the keyway at the top of the steering shaft and you were driving it just on a Friction fit and now it is loosing up.

JSeery · 01-05-2015, 03:03 PM

You do understand he was driving it with the lower cover off of the steering box? The bearing were loose inside the steering box, not sure what that has to do with the wheel hitting the column or a missing key, are we reading the same thread?

George/Maine · 01-05-2015, 03:04 PM

I was fighting the binding wheel and had just rebuilt my 47 box.
The worm and shaft I bought was sold a shorter shaft and that's what happen to my car. How I noticed it my knuckles were hitting the shifter.
Had to grind the plastic on the wheel. Just mark and look for rubbing.
Could have bent plate now.

George/Maine · 01-05-2015, 03:07 PM

Now driving with no plate now that one I didn't see coming. Must read more. LOL

JSeery · 01-05-2015, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George/Maine

Now driving with no plate now that one I didn't see coming. Must read more. LOL

LOL, yep it is a little bit of a different problem! I would have thought that the race and bearing would have fallen out, but apparently because it was packed with grease it stayed together. Don't get much luckier than that.

Mart · 01-05-2015, 03:59 PM

If driven with no lower plate the outer part of the lower bearing and the race are now probably lying somewhere in the road (or if lucky, in the driveway.)

Mart.

JSeery · 01-05-2015, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

If driven with no lower plate the outer part of the lower bearing and the race are now probably lying somewhere in the road (or if lucky, in the driveway.)

Mart.

That's the funny part, he claims they are still in there!

Mart · 01-05-2015, 04:20 PM

They might still be in there if the steering wheel hitting the mast limited the downward travel of the column/worm, and the outer race was tight in the housing.

But when the plate was refitted, the steering should have reverted to exactly how it was before anything was changed.

If there is still lots of play there is probably something missing.

Mart.

1938 Coupe · 01-11-2015, 06:00 PM

I removed the lower steering cover and removed the bearing and retainer to clean everything up before replacing the bearing with new paper shims. Now I can't remember how the bearing looked in place before removing. Does the bearing go in first and then the retainer or does the retainer go first and then the bearing before bolting up the cover plate with lube tube? I can't find any reference on line with pictures. Thanks! Don

Bob C · 01-11-2015, 06:09 PM

How about post #9.

Bob

1938 Coupe · 01-11-2015, 06:23 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

The pictures in #9 don't show it but I think the bearing goes first then the bearing retainer?

JSeery · 01-11-2015, 06:24 PM

Your having a fun time! The bearing goes in first then the retainer. The gaskets are critical to getting it set right, you can't just put some in there. Sounds like you need some rebuild information. I would suggest you read up on some of this prior to taking them apart!!!

Well, for some reason I can not upload my rebuild files. Send me a PM with you email address and I will email them to you.

JSeery · 01-11-2015, 06:41 PM

Second try! For some reason my computer doesn't want to allow me to upload Word Doc today, so I converted them to PDFs if anyone is interested.

JM 35 Sedan · 01-11-2015, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1938 Coupe

I removed the lower steering cover and removed the bearing and retainer to clean everything up before replacing the bearing with new paper shims. Now I can't remember how the bearing looked in place before removing. Does the bearing go in first and then the retainer or does the retainer go first and then the bearing before bolting up the cover plate with lube tube? I can't find any reference on line with pictures. Thanks! Don

I don't know if you have seen this on Mac VP's website? If not, it may show more than previous pictures posted.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...ar_1937-39.jpg

1938 Coupe · 01-14-2015, 12:34 AM

It all back together and works like it should. Thanks for all the help from those who chimed in! Not sure what I would have done without the FordBarners.

JSeery · 01-14-2015, 09:10 AM

That sounds like great news!!!

1938 Coupe · 01-15-2015, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

That sounds like great news!!!

Jerry...I was able to solder the lube tube to the plate and replaced the grease with gear lube and I haven't seen any leaks so far! Thanks again for all your help...Don

JSeery · 01-15-2015, 12:13 PM

Sounds like your on your way to being a steering box rebuilder

Mart · 01-15-2015, 01:53 PM

Were you able to pinpoint the cause for the extreme sloppiness? Lots of guesses were bandied about but what was it that really caused the problem?

Glad it's back together.

Mart.

1938 Coupe · 01-15-2015, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

Were you able to pinpoint the cause for the extreme sloppiness? Lots of guesses were bandied about but what was it that really caused the problem?

Glad it's back together.

Mart.

I drove the car without the lower plate being tightened, but did not loose the bearing or shim gaskets....Big NO NO!

Mart · 01-15-2015, 03:52 PM

Ah well, disaster averted and your experience should help others avoid the same mistake.

Mart.

01-03-2015, 06:55 PM	#1
1938 Coupe Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Cloverdale California Posts: 148	What happened with my steering? I replaced my steering wheel with a banjo type wheel. I pulled the horn button after dismantling the light switch and removing the 4 bolts that held the whole thing together. After putting on the new steering wheel and locking nut I wanted to take it for a test ride without replacing the horn button. I was going to clean and repaint everything but the horn button itself. I figured the car would be fine without replacing those items until I could have time to paint them. The more I drove the car around the steering was getting more and more play in it. Now it is unsafe to drive and you can move the wheel more than a half turn each way before the front wheels will respond. What happened and how can I fix this? Any help here will be appreciated!....Thanks

01-03-2015, 07:04 PM	#2
Andy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kerrville, Tx Posts: 2,770	Re: What happened with my steering? It may be that those 4 bolts held the lower bearing retainer which held the lower bearing in place. Without that part the oil will run out and the lower bearing will likely fall out. You may need the bearing plus a gasket kit. I hope no damage was done to the other parts.

01-03-2015, 07:27 PM	#3
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: What happened with my steering? The four bolts you removed (if they were the ones on the bottom of the housing) are what hold the steering box together. You are very lucky you didn't have more trouble than you appear to have had! Are the parts all still there? That plate retains the bearing and sets the adjustment, so there may be several issues to resolve now. You need to determine if any parts are missing, then if the bearing will go back into place and also if there is any damage to the bearing races. Then you are going to have to recheck the bearing load to assure it is correct. These is adjusted by the number of gaskets between the cover and the housing. Also have to see if any of the existing gaskets are damaged and need to be replaced. It is possible that the steering box is so damaged that it will have to be totally rebuilt.

01-04-2015, 04:14 AM	#4
Snouts out Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Covedale,oh Posts: 226	Re: What happened with my steering? Does your horn button have the rod attached? If it does,I don't get it.You drop the column,remove the light switch spider & pull the rod with button attached,being careful not to bend the rod.After going through that,why not replace it & deal with the light switch ?

01-04-2015, 01:33 PM	#5
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: What happened with my steering? Snouts correct No need to dismantle the box to remove the rod and button

01-05-2015, 01:25 PM	#7
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: What happened with my steering? If the tube remained the bearing is still in there. If the gaskets look ok I would put the bolts back in and see how it steers. Might have to move the steering around while you tighten it up. The box should have been filled with lube, need to add some gear lube and try it,

01-05-2015, 01:32 PM	#8
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: What happened with my steering? If the brass tube came out, you will have lost any lube that was in the box. If the tube has been loose for a while, there probably wasn't any lube left anyway. Mart.

01-05-2015, 01:44 PM	#12
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: What happened with my steering? They do pack them with grease and the grease will not properly lube the gears! To test it just add some lube to it (STP will also work). If everything is ok, you can clean the grease out at a future date. The bottom cover plate (the one with the four bolts) pushes against the lower bearing race. That is what the gasket/shims adjust, the distance the bearing race is pushed up into the housing (bearing load). If the steering was extremely loose the raise moved out a little. I would guess it would not take much to really loosen up the steering! So if the race is still in the housing, most likely it just needs to be pushed back up into place and the cover tighten down. Yep, the grease may have saved you, but it is not a good long term lubricant, needs some type of gear oil in it. Last edited by JSeery; 01-05-2015 at 01:53 PM.

01-05-2015, 02:40 PM	#13
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: What happened with my steering? If you put the same shims back in it may return to the way it was. What I think you did was loosen the plate so you could tighten the steering wheel. The bottom of wheel is hitting the steering tube. Remove steering wheel and return to the original. You may have bent plate on bottom.

01-05-2015, 02:52 PM	#15
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: What happened with my steering? When you tighten the wheel the bottom is hitting the column. The shaft is no longer between the 2 bearing. My guess.

01-05-2015, 02:55 PM	#16
35 coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 373	Re: What happened with my steering? Maybe you lost the key in the keyway at the top of the steering shaft and you were driving it just on a Friction fit and now it is loosing up.

01-05-2015, 03:03 PM	#17
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: What happened with my steering? You do understand he was driving it with the lower cover off of the steering box? The bearing were loose inside the steering box, not sure what that has to do with the wheel hitting the column or a missing key, are we reading the same thread?

01-05-2015, 03:04 PM	#18
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: What happened with my steering? I was fighting the binding wheel and had just rebuilt my 47 box. The worm and shaft I bought was sold a shorter shaft and that's what happen to my car. How I noticed it my knuckles were hitting the shifter. Had to grind the plastic on the wheel. Just mark and look for rubbing. Could have bent plate now.

01-05-2015, 03:07 PM	#19
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: What happened with my steering? Now driving with no plate now that one I didn't see coming. Must read more. LOL

01-05-2015, 03:59 PM	#21
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: What happened with my steering? If driven with no lower plate the outer part of the lower bearing and the race are now probably lying somewhere in the road (or if lucky, in the driveway.) Mart.

01-05-2015, 04:20 PM	#23
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: What happened with my steering? They might still be in there if the steering wheel hitting the mast limited the downward travel of the column/worm, and the outer race was tight in the housing. But when the plate was refitted, the steering should have reverted to exactly how it was before anything was changed. If there is still lots of play there is probably something missing. Mart.

01-11-2015, 06:00 PM	#24
1938 Coupe Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Cloverdale California Posts: 148	Re: What happened with my steering? I removed the lower steering cover and removed the bearing and retainer to clean everything up before replacing the bearing with new paper shims. Now I can't remember how the bearing looked in place before removing. Does the bearing go in first and then the retainer or does the retainer go first and then the bearing before bolting up the cover plate with lube tube? I can't find any reference on line with pictures. Thanks! Don

01-11-2015, 06:09 PM	#25
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,753	Re: What happened with my steering? How about post #9. Bob

01-11-2015, 06:23 PM	#26
1938 Coupe Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Cloverdale California Posts: 148	Re: What happened with my steering? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The pictures in #9 don't show it but I think the bearing goes first then the bearing retainer?

01-11-2015, 06:24 PM	#27
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: What happened with my steering? Your having a fun time! The bearing goes in first then the retainer. The gaskets are critical to getting it set right, you can't just put some in there. Sounds like you need some rebuild information. I would suggest you read up on some of this prior to taking them apart!!! Well, for some reason I can not upload my rebuild files. Send me a PM with you email address and I will email them to you.

01-14-2015, 12:34 AM	#30
1938 Coupe Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Cloverdale California Posts: 148	Re: What happened with my steering? It all back together and works like it should. Thanks for all the help from those who chimed in! Not sure what I would have done without the FordBarners.

01-14-2015, 09:10 AM	#31
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: What happened with my steering? That sounds like great news!!!

01-15-2015, 12:13 PM	#33
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: What happened with my steering? Sounds like your on your way to being a steering box rebuilder

01-15-2015, 01:53 PM	#34
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: What happened with my steering? Were you able to pinpoint the cause for the extreme sloppiness? Lots of guesses were bandied about but what was it that really caused the problem? Glad it's back together. Mart.

01-15-2015, 03:52 PM	#36
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: What happened with my steering? Ah well, disaster averted and your experience should help others avoid the same mistake. Mart.