Ping Ping and More

[1938 Coupe]

Does anyone know a secret in toning down the pinging I am hearing in my 1938 v8 60 when I accelerate from a start or put a load on the engine going up hill?
I have tried turning in the brake vacuum adjustment without any improvement.
I tried using premium gas but it still pings. If I back off the gas peddle the pinging stops and the noise also goes away when coasting down hill as I let off on the gas. I have new spark plugs installed and it runs better but still pings. I don't know how to check the timing if this is the cause. Would regular gas be better than premium gas? The vacuum brake is new but doesn't seem to make any difference in my adjustments. Maybe I need a lesson on how to tune this motor properly? Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks

[JSeery]

The timing is over advanced. I would suggest you not drive it until it is corrected.

[Lawrie]

For an easy trial just loosen the timing adjustment screw and move it down a graduation or two,that will retard the whole timing.
Lawrie

[JSeery]

It is possible that there is another cause like a lean fuel mixture, but it is most likely over advanced timing.

[Charlie ny]

1938,
If the aluminum intake burns thru or has a pin hole somewhere you will
experience this situation. The burn thru is, of course, adjacent to the heat riser pass-
age the pin hole/s can be anywhere.
Charlie ny

[JWL]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I would first check the leather, spring, and freedom of movement on the advance control plunger. If no amount of adjusting, with a properly functioning plunger, brings things under control begin retarding the general timing at the index plate.

[Kurt in NJ]

Having put quite a few miles on a 60 I learned that it takes a different driving technique, that "lugging" it does no good, when climbing hills i would downshift to 2nd at 40, and would take 2nd to 40 before shifting, doing this and keeping it under 70 on the parkway would give 25+ mpg---your problem probably is in the dist, perhaps you need to find someone to set it up, one that is capable to run it on a dist machine and operate the vacuum brake (Bubbas comes to mind as a good place)

the 60 I drove had all the parts in the engine balanced to less than 1 gram, was built with all NOS parts, at first I worried about the high rpms, but after talking with a boat racer I stoppedworring and had fun with the car, he told me that with stock bottom end he used 7000 rpm, that he could get 2 seasons between overhauls, but at 7500 rpm 1/2 season,

I could never get the 60 to ping even with a backed off vacuum brake, the dist was checked on a dist machine and set up on the timing fixture, my A when it had a worn cam could ping with weak gas, but nothing seems to make it ping with the near NOS cam ---I don't know about your engine build thouigh, the original engine in the 60 knocked,pinged due to a bad repair, a properly set up dist didn't help it then ---have you checked compression, done cylinder leakdown, perhaps a valve not seating properly is getting hot and igniting mixture at the wrong time ---but you need to start with a properly operating dist.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

The adjustment of the contact points also effect timing and everything must be correct. May no have anything to do with the vacuum brake set up.
I would start all over with a set up on the distributor.
Send it to us and i can redo the entire unit setting the timing on a machine etc.....

[Binx]

To add to what Bubba said, if the driver side "break" point set fails, the passenger side "make" points will take over and severely advance the base timing by (I think) 12.5 degrees.

Lonnie

[alchemy]

I chased a pinging problem for half a summer until I realized the leather on the plunger was coming apart. Check that first.

[1938 Coupe]

Originally Posted by alchemy

I chased a pinging problem for half a summer until I realized the leather on the plunger was coming apart. Check that first.

I wish it was that simple, but the vacuum brake is a new one from Macs.
Thanks anyway!

[1938 Coupe]

Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

The adjustment of the contact points also effect timing and everything must be correct. May no have anything to do with the vacuum brake set up.
I would start all over with a set up on the distributor.
Send it to us and i can redo the entire unit setting the timing on a machine etc.....

Is there anything I should know before removing the distributor? Does the motor have to be at TDC on # one to be removed or can it just be pulled out? Thanks

[Bruce Lancaster]

R&R of distributor does not change timing...do note that drive is offset and must be aligned when you put it back.
For now...check or change points (NAPA has them) and set to largest stock spec, .016... make sure everything is clean and moves.
On Binx's poit there, you would see a broken spring in most cases.
Remove snap ring and get cam off of shaft...clean and grease. This area sticks, and could conceivably stick at full advance if dirty.
Make sure brake moves freely, and verify by hand that it puts pressure against innards while you turn them.
I've posted on there the slightly obscure ruler method for the helmet type distributor...use that to set. At a minimum, set the timing scale at dead center of the grid, which will be real close to right.
Machine setup is ideal, but it should run fine set up with feeler gauges and rulers.

[J Franklin]

You can do a lot of work or maybe just retard the timing a bit. Look at post#2

[Bruce Lancaster]

Well, look over possibilities on that carefully, including the exhaust burn through.
If you get both points working, if timing mark is about at center...timing is probably at least close enough to function.
Flatheads in my opinion tolerate excess advance better than retard, and with modern gas it's hard to get into pinging...
Check out your ignition as stated, if it still pings something odd is happening.

[Brendan]

1938 coupe, maybe talk to Chris Zootis in Healdsburg, he has a sun machine to spin your distributor on . look in the phone book for his phone no. he has a machine shop in Healdsburg

[1938 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Brendan

1938 coupe, maybe talk to Chris Zootis in Healdsburg, he has a sun machine to spin your distributor on . look in the phone book for his phone no. he has a machine shop in Healdsburg

Thank you for that information....I'll check him out!

[scooder]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Well, look over possibilities on that carefully, including the exhaust burn through.
If you get both points working, if timing mark is about at center...timing is probably at least close enough to function.
Flatheads in my opinion tolerate excess advance better than retard, and with modern gas it's hard to get into pinging...
Check out your ignition as stated, if it still pings something odd is happening.

That's some real good words right there Bruce.
I completely agree, specially the "tolerate" excess advance without ping.
Here in England we have an old ignition timing tuning exercise that I believe you've mentioned before.
For those that don't know it, here it is.
If you want to optimize your ignition timing, set your "static" timing, number 1 cylinder on compression stroke, points just about to open. And I meen JUST, any tiny extra twist on the distributor will open them. With this done the engine will start. Get him warm, take it for a spin. Now get it in high, at (normally) 30 mph, and floor the foot feed, if it don't ping give him more advance till he does ping at this speed with throttle floored. What your listening for is ping at this time. When you have the faintest ping with this load, knock the timing back 1-2 degrees and your done.
This works on pretty much all old cars. If they have the correct ignition curve for the car, your optimized.
However, if you try this with a flathead V8, your gonna end up with a slug that drinks gas, and has far far to much advance.
In my experience you can give a flathead 30 plus degrees advance and he often won't ping, but your power will be way down.
Years back I did one of the Mallory three bolts for a guy. He felt the engine was flat and didn't have the power he thought it should. That red capped critter was giving him 35ish degrees advance total. Engine started fine, ran ok but down on power and didn't ping. I reset the stops, allowed 20ish total. They Guy took it for a quick blast, he was visibly shaking when he got back! It now went like hell.
I'm damn sure most of the folk who feel flatheads are "so much money to go slow" have never driven one with the timing optimised.
We have some beach racing at Pendine Sands for this stuff. First year a chap with stock Ford Pilot engine, all stock, ran higher top speed than flatheads with 239+ cubes, high compression heads, some with aftermarket cams and 2-3 carbs!
That should not happen! Guy with the Pilot engine obviously had the correct curve and total ignition timing as they were all stock parts.
If the OP has ping, something is going on that needs fixing before it gets expensive, he's gonna be burning holes in stuff if he ain't careful.
As has been said, point gap needs to be checked this has a big influence on timing. Do the number 1 on compression stroke have to use thum over plug hole and feel for it, points just about to open (the second set) with rotor pointing at number 1 ignition terminal. Check the leads are definitely going to the right plugs.
Gota vacuum gauge? Plop it on and time for 19-22 ish steady vac, this will also get you damn close on initial (idle) timing.
Your new vacuum brake, is it defiantly putting a push on the advance plate?
Something broke in there allowing the advance to go to high?
Are the heads all coked up? Have they been off and decoked?
Just some ideas to nudge you in the right direction.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
Martin.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by JSeery

It is possible that there is another cause like a lean fuel mixture.

That's easy to check. When it starts pinging ease the choke out slightly until it starts to affect the engine running. If it's too lean of mixture the pinging will go away well before the engine is affected. If so, installing the next larger size jets in the carb will fix it.

[scicala]

Some very good advice from Scooder. Might be a good time to try the famous "tune up in a glass". Race the engine with the air cleaner off, and SLOWLY poor some water down the throat of the carburetor while keeping the engine racing. This will steam the combustion chambers and remove excess carbon. If the pinging goes away, or is a lot less, then that may be the issue. Sure does sound like too much timing advance though.

Sal