The Ford Barn

Tony Burdett · 11-29-2021, 01:08 PM

I’ve just lifted the heads on by 8BA 1950 pickup and found four cracks on both banks between the bolt holes and water jackets l have been told these can be laser welded but would like an opinion on the merits of thread inserts over welding. Also could someone explain how approximately three pints of water could get into the sump oil via these cracks, thanks

21stud · 11-29-2021, 01:20 PM

Those cracks from bolt holes to water jackets are usually harmless. If you got water in oil you might have panrail crack? better pull that oil pan also.

Bored&Stroked · 11-29-2021, 01:52 PM

You should post pictures of the deck surface and highlight/point to where the cracks are. There are plenty of flathead blocks with cracks between a couple studs and the water jackets - in areas that are NOT a concern.

Question: What do the tops of the pistons look like? Are any of them "washed" from water getting into the combustion chambers? Do you see any signs of water having been in the chambers?

If not, then the water in your oil did not come from a crack that allowed water to get into the pistons/chambers . . . and then down into the oil.

There are multiple ways that water can get into the oil pan . . . and as 21Stud noted, one of the more common ways is via a crack in the oil-pan mounting rail. This is usually a result of freezing.

Gick70 · 11-29-2021, 02:32 PM

There is a YouTube video putting inserts in the holes and calling it a day.You could install without pulling motor.

Tony Burdett · 11-29-2021, 04:23 PM

Would the pan rail crack be visible from outside the block or inside ,at the moment the engine is covered in grime but I’m washing it off tomorrow and taking the oil pan off

Bored&Stroked · 11-29-2021, 04:59 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Burdett

Would the pan rail crack be visible from outside the block or inside ,at the moment the engine is covered in grime but I’m washing it off tomorrow and taking the oil pan off

It would only be visible (usually) if you pull the pan, clean the gasket surface, wire brush it and see if you see any cracks that run from pan bolt to pan bolt. Usually the problem is pretty evident once the pan is off and the block gasket surface cleaned.

Tony Burdett · 11-29-2021, 05:09 PM

If I could work out how to attach photos I would

V8COOPMAN · 11-29-2021, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Burdett

If I could work out how to attach photos I would

Tony ....If you'll e-mail the photos to me, I'll post 'em for ya. My e-mail BELOW! DD

[email protected]

.

Tony Burdett · 11-30-2021, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

It would only be visible (usually) if you pull the pan, clean the gasket surface, wire brush it and see if you see any cracks that run from pan bolt to pan bolt. Usually the problem is pretty evident once the pan is off and the block gasket surface cleaned.

Found a large crack along the block running along the sump surface and then on the inside surface of the block

Tim Ayers · 11-30-2021, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Burdett

Found a large crack along the block running along the sump surface and then on the inside surface of the block

Sadly, that will do it and that block is scrap. Where are you located?

Bored&Stroked · 11-30-2021, 02:31 PM

That sucks . . . there is no viable repair method that I would recommend or attempt to use. You'll need to find another block.

Tony Burdett · 11-30-2021, 03:24 PM

Gloucestershire U/K. Not too many 8BA blocks over here. As a matter of interest what would a good block cost in the USA?

Tim Ayers · 11-30-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Burdett

Gloucestershire U/K. Not too many 8BA blocks over here. As a matter of interest what would a good block cost in the USA?

A known good block (one that is cleaned, pressure tested, and mag'd and this work can be proven) with a bore size at under .030", I would say between $750-$1000. Could be more now days.

Desoto291Hemi · 11-30-2021, 05:39 PM

Always remember,,,,,technology is getting better,,,,,what could not have been repaired in the past,,, might be done now ,,,or in the future .
Check H and H or some others,,,,,you never know ?
I don’t know if H and H will just sell a block outright or not ?
Good luck .

Tommy

Mart · 11-30-2021, 07:35 PM

Yeah, sorry Tony, That one is a no-hoper. I have a 59A here with similar damage. As you (probably) know, they do turn up on UK ebay but are expensive and are never sold as known good units. They are just as found and may have the same or worse faults. Prices for these "gambles" are ridiculously high.
Mart.

RKS.PA · 12-01-2021, 10:21 AM

Mart, I was hoping you'd opine when I saw where Tony was located...thinking if anyone would know where he could find a usable block, you would!!

And, maybe in your network, you might come across one!!

Tony Burdett · 12-01-2021, 11:29 AM

Yes there are several on eBay and UK sites “ sold as seen” but I would agree it would be unwise to buy something that may very well have the same problem. It’s a shame because the rest of the engine is in good condition. I’ve still got loads of rust patching, chassis work and paint to do, hoping something may turn up in the meantime.

Tim Ayers · 12-01-2021, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Burdett

Yes there are several on eBay and UK sites “ sold as seen” but I would agree it would be unwise to buy something that may very well have the same problem. It’s a shame because the rest of the engine is in good condition. I’ve still got loads of rust patching, chassis work and paint to do, hoping something may turn up in the meantime.

I've been thinking about this and, by no means, is it meant to be a fail safe repair.

Would it be possible to force some modern epoxy into the crack and clamp it all along while it sets up?

SunleyAntiques · 12-03-2021, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Burdett

Yes there are several on eBay and UK sites “ sold as seen” but I would agree it would be unwise to buy something that may very well have the same problem. It’s a shame because the rest of the engine is in good condition. I’ve still got loads of rust patching, chassis work and paint to do, hoping something may turn up in the meantime.

Tony... May I send you a message or e-mail in regards to a good block for you? I have a possible solution.

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

Craig CT · 12-03-2021, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Burdett

Found a large crack along the block running along the sump surface and then on the inside surface of the block

Hi Tony; Sorry to read about your block. You do have an opportunity to practice some porting and anything else you might like to try. One door closes and another one opens. Good luck, Craig.

SunleyAntiques · 12-03-2021, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig CT

Hi Tony; Sorry to read about your block. You do have an opportunity to practice some porting and anything else you might like to try. One door closes and another one opens. Good luck, Craig.

I love this hot rodder positive mentality. Fantastic point. Some guys will even cut down old guides to match the port work done. Every little bit of airflow can help...

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

Fortunateson · 12-04-2021, 03:01 AM

Mart, I was hoping you’d have a block for Tony as you seem to find them and rebuild them on a kind of regular basis... I’m betting you’ll find one for him!

V8COOPMAN · 12-09-2021, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Burdett

If I could work out how to attach photos I would

Tony .....Sorry it took me so long. These are the photos I promised about ten days ago!

SunleyAntiques · 12-09-2021, 11:53 AM

The tiny crack from the water jack to the head bolt hole is very easy to fix.

The pan rail crack though. WHEW.

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

bobH · 12-09-2021, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desoto291Hemi

Always remember,,,,,technology is getting better,,,,,what could not have been repaired in the past,,, might be done now ,,,or in the future .
Check H and H or some others,,,,,you never know ?
I don’t know if H and H will just sell a block outright or not ?
Good luck .

Tommy

Worth a try at H&H. It's my understanding that H&H bought all of the engines from Bernie Long's estate sale, perhaps 75 (?), and they ought to have a decent block. 'Course, like Hemi posted, don't know if they will sell just a block. But, on the good side, they have the capability to clean, inspect, repair, certify, etc. Obviously, shipping would be painful.

(BTW, they got that lot of engines for 25 apiece, all as-found, condition unknown. Just so you know.)

JWL · 12-09-2021, 06:06 PM

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Those 2 cracks at the water to stud holes, on each bank, usually need no attention. They occur as a result of over-torquing, (even within Ford specs) and create no harmful aspect to sealing if the proper 45 to 50 ft. lb. torque , in multiple series applications is performed.

The pan rail crack is another matter and should be repaired if continual engine use is contemplated. The more common repair is through the use of oxy/acet brazing, but, if proper pre-heat and post heat-cool down facilities are available almost any fracture can be welded using cast iron filler material with either TIG or oxy/acet processes. I have used my wife's large ceramic kiln for preparing damaged blocks for welding. This is a very hot, uncomfortable, project and one must be motivated to do it.

Bored&Stroked · 12-10-2021, 01:28 PM

Hey Gang, while I've had some rare or important blocks welded (cast iron, furnace welding), I'm not sure I'd invest in this particular block.

Take a look at the picture that he posted and notice the cracks on the inside of the pan rail. Then look down by the lifter bores . . . not sure there are cracks by the lifter bores, but I'm suspect.

This thing obviously had a lot of freeze damage - I'd be looking for a much better block before I'd be investing in this one.

2021-12-10_13-23-18.jpg

Tim Ayers · 12-10-2021, 02:05 PM

The ones near the lifter look like casting flaws. Hard to tell from the pict.

I agree, though. Time for a new block.

11-29-2021, 01:08 PM	#1
Tony Burdett Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Gloucestershire U/K Posts: 32	8BA block cracked I’ve just lifted the heads on by 8BA 1950 pickup and found four cracks on both banks between the bolt holes and water jackets l have been told these can be laser welded but would like an opinion on the merits of thread inserts over welding. Also could someone explain how approximately three pints of water could get into the sump oil via these cracks, thanks

11-29-2021, 01:20 PM	#2
21stud Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Finland Posts: 76	Re: 8BA block cracked Those cracks from bolt holes to water jackets are usually harmless. If you got water in oil you might have panrail crack? better pull that oil pan also.

11-29-2021, 01:52 PM	#3
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,067	Re: 8BA block cracked You should post pictures of the deck surface and highlight/point to where the cracks are. There are plenty of flathead blocks with cracks between a couple studs and the water jackets - in areas that are NOT a concern. Question: What do the tops of the pistons look like? Are any of them "washed" from water getting into the combustion chambers? Do you see any signs of water having been in the chambers? If not, then the water in your oil did not come from a crack that allowed water to get into the pistons/chambers . . . and then down into the oil. There are multiple ways that water can get into the oil pan . . . and as 21Stud noted, one of the more common ways is via a crack in the oil-pan mounting rail. This is usually a result of freezing.

11-29-2021, 02:32 PM	#4
Gick70 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 107	Re: 8BA block cracked There is a YouTube video putting inserts in the holes and calling it a day.You could install without pulling motor.

11-29-2021, 04:23 PM	#5
Tony Burdett Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Gloucestershire U/K Posts: 32	Re: 8BA block cracked Would the pan rail crack be visible from outside the block or inside ,at the moment the engine is covered in grime but I’m washing it off tomorrow and taking the oil pan off

11-29-2021, 05:09 PM	#7
Tony Burdett Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Gloucestershire U/K Posts: 32	Re: 8BA block cracked If I could work out how to attach photos I would

11-30-2021, 02:31 PM	#11
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,067	Re: 8BA block cracked That sucks . . . there is no viable repair method that I would recommend or attempt to use. You'll need to find another block.

11-30-2021, 03:24 PM	#12
Tony Burdett Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Gloucestershire U/K Posts: 32	Re: 8BA block cracked Gloucestershire U/K. Not too many 8BA blocks over here. As a matter of interest what would a good block cost in the USA?

11-30-2021, 05:39 PM	#14
Desoto291Hemi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Carthage , Tennessee Posts: 199	Re: 8BA block cracked Always remember,,,,,technology is getting better,,,,,what could not have been repaired in the past,,, might be done now ,,,or in the future . Check H and H or some others,,,,,you never know ? I don’t know if H and H will just sell a block outright or not ? Good luck . Tommy

11-30-2021, 07:35 PM	#15
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: 8BA block cracked Yeah, sorry Tony, That one is a no-hoper. I have a 59A here with similar damage. As you (probably) know, they do turn up on UK ebay but are expensive and are never sold as known good units. They are just as found and may have the same or worse faults. Prices for these "gambles" are ridiculously high. Mart.

12-01-2021, 10:21 AM	#16
RKS.PA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Marana, AZ Posts: 1,194	Re: 8BA block cracked Mart, I was hoping you'd opine when I saw where Tony was located...thinking if anyone would know where he could find a usable block, you would!! And, maybe in your network, you might come across one!!

12-01-2021, 11:29 AM	#17
Tony Burdett Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Gloucestershire U/K Posts: 32	Re: 8BA block cracked Yes there are several on eBay and UK sites “ sold as seen” but I would agree it would be unwise to buy something that may very well have the same problem. It’s a shame because the rest of the engine is in good condition. I’ve still got loads of rust patching, chassis work and paint to do, hoping something may turn up in the meantime.

12-04-2021, 03:01 AM	#22
Fortunateson Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 511	Re: 8BA block cracked Mart, I was hoping you’d have a block for Tony as you seem to find them and rebuild them on a kind of regular basis... I’m betting you’ll find one for him!

12-09-2021, 11:53 AM	#24
SunleyAntiques Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 20	Re: 8BA block cracked The tiny crack from the water jack to the head bolt hole is very easy to fix. The pan rail crack though. WHEW. Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

12-09-2021, 06:06 PM	#26
JWL Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia Posts: 2,204	Re: 8BA block cracked Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Those 2 cracks at the water to stud holes, on each bank, usually need no attention. They occur as a result of over-torquing, (even within Ford specs) and create no harmful aspect to sealing if the proper 45 to 50 ft. lb. torque , in multiple series applications is performed. The pan rail crack is another matter and should be repaired if continual engine use is contemplated. The more common repair is through the use of oxy/acet brazing, but, if proper pre-heat and post heat-cool down facilities are available almost any fracture can be welded using cast iron filler material with either TIG or oxy/acet processes. I have used my wife's large ceramic kiln for preparing damaged blocks for welding. This is a very hot, uncomfortable, project and one must be motivated to do it.

12-10-2021, 01:28 PM	#27
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,067	Re: 8BA block cracked Hey Gang, while I've had some rare or important blocks welded (cast iron, furnace welding), I'm not sure I'd invest in this particular block. Take a look at the picture that he posted and notice the cracks on the inside of the pan rail. Then look down by the lifter bores . . . not sure there are cracks by the lifter bores, but I'm suspect. This thing obviously had a lot of freeze damage - I'd be looking for a much better block before I'd be investing in this one. 2021-12-10_13-23-18.jpg

12-10-2021, 02:05 PM	#28
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,181	Re: 8BA block cracked The ones near the lifter look like casting flaws. Hard to tell from the pict. I agree, though. Time for a new block.