New Problem, will it ever end?

[29restorod]

Last week I drove my "A" about 80 miles. I was thinking it is finally becoming a reliable car. Sunday it was running great,and shifting like it should, when I parked it in the garage. Last night I backed out of the garage, shifted into first, and took off for a local cruise night. When I tried to shift into 2nd gear it would grind, would not go in. I also tried 3rd gear, and would not go in either. Back at the garage I checked clutch free play, and clutch engagement point. There is a lot of top end free play, but the engagement point is well off the floor. Standing still, it will go into any gear, from neutral, after letting out the clutch. There is no unusual noise, coming from the bell housing. I filled the trans with modern "600" about 300 miles back. I ended up taking my 47 to the cruise. I will start checking it out later today. Any Ideas?

[Dave in Boise]

look *very* closely at the arm that is located on the bellhousing shaft that your clutch pedal is attached to.. I had a very similar issue where the arm itself had a crack that would not allow the clutch to fully engage as the crack would open up when the clutch was depressed.. Looking at the arm with no pressure on it it looked great, but when I had some one in the car push the clutch down, the crack opened up not allowing the clutch to fully function..

Best of Luck!

- Dave in Boise

[31 A4door]

Doesn't sound like a clutch problem to me.. if you can get it into gears at a stand still then the clutch is disengaging. Sounds more like something in the trans instead. Also if you can get into gear and moving in 1st can you shift to 2nd without the clutch at all? You should be able to match RPMs to do this. This would also aid you into finding the problem I would think.

[heneste]

You can also check to see if your gas pedal is sticking and not coming back fully when you take your foot off the gas. I ran into a similar issue when coming and leaving a stop. There was a slightly higher idle because the gas pedal would stick a little bit but when I manually pulled it up, the car idled right down and shifting wasn't grinding.


(I only noticed this because my steering wheel throttle rod had a little freeplay after I came to a stop)

If it is this, check the alignment of the floor board and/or lubricate the throttle rods going to the carburetor.
One of my other friends also had a similar issue happen because the throttle shaft in the carburetor was sticking so his idling was high. All he had to do was oil the throttle shaft in the carb and his problem went away.

Let us know what you find and best of luck!

[Pilotdave]

I have found that shifting into 2nd before the tranny oil has warmed up can result in some gear grinding. This is more of a problem with colder temps, and I notice that you are located in Michigan where it might have been chilly. Also, as heneste mentions, engine speed may not be dropping back to idle as you may have the throttle rod set high until the engine warms up. Why not retry after letting the engine run until warm? Let us know how you make out.

[James Rogers]

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Originally Posted by 29restorod

Last week I drove my "A" about 80 miles. I was thinking it is finally becoming a reliable car. Sunday it was running great,and shifting like it should, when I parked it in the garage. Last night I backed out of the garage, shifted into first, and took off for a local cruise night. When I tried to shift into 2nd gear it would grind, would not go in. I also tried 3rd gear, and would not go in either. Back at the garage I checked clutch free play, and clutch engagement point. There is a lot of top end free play, but the engagement point is well off the floor. Standing still, it will go into any gear, from neutral, after letting out the clutch. There is no unusual noise, coming from the bell housing. I filled the trans with modern "600" about 300 miles back. I ended up taking my 47 to the cruise. I will start checking it out later today. Any Ideas?

Was the engine running when you tried this?

[Richard Wilson]

Originally Posted by Dave in Boise

look *very* closely at the arm that is located on the bellhousing shaft that your clutch pedal is attached to.. I had a very similar issue where the arm itself had a crack that would not allow the clutch to fully engage as the crack would open up when the clutch was depressed.. Looking at the arm with no pressure on it it looked great, but when I had some one in the car push the clutch down, the crack opened up not allowing the clutch to fully function..

Best of Luck!

- Dave in Boise

I agree with Dave. This is the FIRST thing I would look at. The arm breaks right across the rivet hole.

[john in illinois]

Also,if you have a lot of free play

" checked clutch free play, and clutch engagement point. There is a lot of top end free play, but the engagement point is well off the floor. Standing still, it will go into any gear, from neutral, after letti"

You should adjust the clutch according to specs. with 1" or so free play and try it, if the arm is OK.

John

[Pat Martone]

I am embarressed that I don't know the answer, but I will ask anyway:

Why do the gears grind less once the transmission is warmed-up?

(I too have experienced this, but was thinking it was my imagination.)

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Pat Martone

I am embarressed that I don't know the answer, but I will ask anyway:

Why do the gears grind less once the transmission is warmed-up?

(I too have experienced this, but was thinking it was my imagination.)

Cooler oil is much thicker and slows the rotating tranny gears much quicker. When the oil is cool, you might have less trouble grinding gears if you double clutch and upshift at lower speeds.

[29restorod]

Ok, I worked on it for an hour or more. I adjusted the clutch, one full turn, which brought it up to 1" free play. Inspected and greased the throwout bearing, and checked trans oil level. I took it out on the road and had the same problem, but this time I kept going, after a couple of miles it started shifting normal. When I came back and read the post, I found my problem. After driving this car for several days the idle speed was a little high, and I turned it down. I started to use the choke high idle while warming up,( Stromberg 97 carb). After I pushed the choke all the way in, it shifts great. Next on my repair list is stopping the rear axle leak from the torque tube.

[Joe K]

Next on my repair list is stopping the rear axle leak from the torque tube.

Assuming this back at the "pumpkin?" (banjo, wotever) There is a gasket that is sold that can be used here. A lot of original axles don't have a gasket here.

I don't think the torque tube bolts are threaded through into the pumpkin but you can use Teflon tape here to stop leaks.

And you want to check for original or "authorized replacement" bolts on either side of that banjo as modern bolts are a trifle undersize (or originals were a trifle oversized) and can cause an oil leak from the bottom center of the axle housings.

If correct bolts, Teflon tape works here too or good old permatex #2.

Joe K

[marc hildebrant]

Interesting problem ! Caused by one of those "modern" carburetors eh?

Marc

[Richard Wilson]

Originally Posted by 29restorod

Ok, I worked on it for an hour or more. I adjusted the clutch, one full turn, which brought it up to 1" free play. Inspected and greased the throwout bearing, and checked trans oil level. I took it out on the road and had the same problem, but this time I kept going, after a couple of miles it started shifting normal. When I came back and read the post, I found my problem. After driving this car for several days the idle speed was a little high, and I turned it down. I started to use the choke high idle while warming up,( Stromberg 97 carb). After I pushed the choke all the way in, it shifts great. Next on my repair list is stopping the rear axle leak from the torque tube.

Looks like a win - win. You learned something new about operating your car and you did some "routine" adjustments and checks along the way. Good job.

[Tinker]

Short answer... No it wont ever end.

So the only thing you changed is the oil. Should slow down shifting but that should be an avantage.

Thats all i got, but you fixed it anyway!

[Marshall V. Daut]

I hope the cause of your problem is not what created a similar situation in my '31 Roadster 15-20 years ago. Same symptoms as you are experiencing = all of a sudden, 2nd and 3rd gears were grinding and I did feel a slight vibration increase through the drive train. I checked all the usual suspects in such a case, especially the clutch arm. Nope. Things didn't improve, but they didn't get any better, either. Finally, the transmission had to come out and be disassembled.
What I found was that the cluster gear shaft had broken in half and was allowing the gear to move up and down and side ways enough to create hard and nosiy shifting. I have no idea why the shaft had broken. Certainly not from abuse. (How can you abuse this item anyway?) The fluid was the proper 600w and was at the correct level inside the transmission case. It was a new shaft that I had installed only two years earlier. I'm guessing it was made from mild steel. In the early 1990's there were still quite a few poor reproduction parts being sold, including transmission gears and other stressed parts that were made off-shore. They were made of inferior metals that didn't hold up. I suspect that this shaft was one of those left over in the vendor's parts bin. He just finally got down deep enough in his supply bin to dredge this one up for me. It was a repoutable vendor, too. A new shaft was ordered and the problem never came back.
If all other checks fail to turn up your culprit, consider what happened to me as your last resort. 'T'aint fun to make this repair, but what are ya' gonna do? The longer you continue grinding those gears, the more wear and damage will occur to the teeth. Don't wait too long to fix this problem or $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ will be in your future.
Marshall "Everything Happens to Me" Daut