The Ford Barn

larry harding · 08-30-2016, 06:01 PM

at the portland ind. show last weekend a guy had an a engine and transmission as well as the rolling chassis it came out of. it looked as it had been running in that chassis. he wanted to sell both but would sell separately. he tried to crank the engine and it would pop on a couple of cylinders, but never really reved up. i suspected tuning or valve problems and made a deal with him (stupid me and it wasn't cheep). today i got it to run pretty good on #1 and #2 cylinders, but #3 and #4 wouldn't do any thing. suspecting valve problems i pulled the head... the valves in #3 and 4 looked new. there was carbon on #1 and #2 valves and the valves and pistons for #3 and #4 were clean, looked new. i put a socket on the pulley nut and turned the engine over. pistons 1 & 2 were 180 degrees apart as they should be. 3 and 4 were in an orbit all their own, making no sense at all. could the crank shaft be twisted or broken and still turn all the way? as i tore the engine down i noticed several things that indicated it had been apart.( copper safety wire in the flywheel bolts, new valves etc.) i'm going to pull thew oil pan tomorrow and see if there is anything to be saved. has anybody seen anything like this???

goodoldvic · 08-30-2016, 06:32 PM

Sorry to hear, drop the pan and let us know. Also did the seller give you reason to think the engine was not what it is? Good luck

Tom Wesenberg · 08-30-2016, 07:31 PM

It's happened to me also. In fact the only two engines I heard run before I bought them were the worst and I paid the most. One sounded perfect and showed no blowby and made no noise. When I pulled the head I found it had two head gaskets under all the grease and dirt, and all 4 cylinders had deep gouges on both sides of the walls from the wrist pins having no locks on them. The other engine I'm still fixing things on and hope to use it soon.
Seems anymore you don't dare pay more than core value for an engine.

Speaking of getting ripped off, I bought this Honda generator even though the seller said he couldn't pull the recoil, and said "it may be locked up". Since the pictures looked so good I figured it was worth taking a chance, so I paid $212.50 with shipping. As soon as I saw the name on paypal ( onecylinderrepair) I knew it was a small engine shop, and I figured if they didn't want to fix it, why would anyone else.

The first 3 pictures are what he showed on ebay, and the next group is what I took as soon as I received it the other day. The seller said he would refund $100, but so far it hasn't come through. It appears to have been in a muddy flood, and the spark plug is gone, which tells me the shop most likely used a small inspection camera to look inside and knew it was junk. This is why I don't buy much on ebay anymore.

BTW, TATE Equipment wasn't involved. It came from California.

C26Pinelake · 08-30-2016, 07:40 PM

When you buy at a flea market you are at the mercy of an unknown seller. Why would you ever pay an inflated price for a completely unknown engine that did not run. Sorry pal but part of the fault rests with you. Wayne .

H. L. Chauvin · 08-30-2016, 07:58 PM

It takes a sincere caring gentleman like Mr. Harding and Mr. Wesenberg to post messages about being careful with what one buys without investigating.

FWIW:

Many years ago, when we were kids, at our rural church fairs we used to have "Grab Bags"; i.e., a large cloth bag with a small opening full of nickle and dime toys wrapped in newspaper for 25 cents where one could feel but not see the very thick newspaper wrapping.

I learned lots more early on from that old grouchy "Grab Bag" woman than I learned later in life in formal education; but every now and then we are still tempted to take a chance with a "Grab Bag" ...... swap meets or e-bay.

tbirdtbird · 08-30-2016, 08:13 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Tom was a victim of bait and switch. The posted pics show a nice clean unit; not one caked with dust and dirt
"It appears to have been in a muddy flood" which the posted pics did not hint to

The OP may have a crank problem

goodoldvic · 08-30-2016, 08:24 PM

Where's the bait and switch. The person listing the generator said I cant pull the starter cord and it may be locked up. And Mr. Wesenberg saw it was offered by a small engine repair shop. When he got it I'm sure he couldn't pull the cord and found it was locked up. It was a poor purchase decision. My original question to the OP was if he was lead to think the engine was rebuilt, or in good running order he doesn't say. Buying over the internet is risky, and a BS story in person sucks too.

The first picture in Mr. Wesenbergs post and the last seem to depict the same item, look at the scraped up sticker. just sayin

wrndln · 08-30-2016, 08:29 PM

Tom,
File a complaint with Ebay and PayPal. You have the pictures to prove the seller screwed you. I did this twice and received my money back. They don't make it easy, but it was worth it.
Rusty Nelson

Dodge · 08-30-2016, 08:50 PM

Yes go thru Pay pal, they are really good about it. I have even got them to send a shipping tag back to the seller.

Tom Wesenberg · 08-30-2016, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodoldvic

Where's the bait and switch. The person listing the generator said I cant pull the starter cord and it may be locked up. And Mr. Wesenberg saw it was offered by a small engine repair shop. When he got it I'm sure he couldn't pull the cord and found it was locked up. It was a poor purchase decision. My original question to the OP was if he was lead to think the engine was rebuilt, or in good running order he doesn't say. Buying over the internet is risky, and a BS story in person sucks too.

The first picture in Mr. Wesenbergs post and the last seem to depict the same item, look at the scraped up sticker. just sayin

Nope, there was no way to know this was from a small engine shop, at the name doesn't show up until you pay through paypal.

Yes, it is the same generator as shown by the stickers, but it sure isn't in the same condition as pictured on ebay. The stickers are the first thing I checked, just to be sure it was the same generator. Sellers can be very deceitful whether on ebay or in person.

BTW, the most expensive engine I bought was the one with the wrist pin grooves, and the seller didn't know about it either. It came from a junk yard in Wisconsin and the seller and I are still good friends. All he did was get it running and sell it since it sounded so good. Some day I will bore it for larger pistons, or sleeve it if need be.

eagle · 08-30-2016, 09:05 PM

Could it be a compressor cam in it??? Or ??? Any engine is a pig in a poke...you win some you lose some...its the way it goes.

Tom Wesenberg · 08-30-2016, 09:10 PM

Yes, I'm anxious to see what Larry's engine looks like inside the lower end.

I once bought an engine as is, but when I showed it to a friend and tipped it on the side I heard a bunch of clunking. That's when I knew I just bought a pile of junk. The oil pump had come out of place and got mixed up with the spinning rods, so it was a pile of parts down under.

Synchro909 · 08-30-2016, 09:32 PM

A few years ago, I was offered a reconditioned (never run) engine by a friend in Canada. I declined because it is so far away. A couple of years later, he sold it to one of his friends over there who wen to all the trouble of putting it in his car. When he tried to start it, it didn't even run - only rattled. Seems the engine he collected from the reconditioner hadn't been touched other than a coat of paint. The workshop had disappeared so he was out a few thousand $.
I had a lucky close call!

SeaSlugs · 08-30-2016, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Nope, there was no way to know this was from a small engine shop, at the name doesn't show up until you pay through paypal.

Yes, it is the same generator as shown by the stickers, but it sure isn't in the same condition as pictured on ebay. The stickers are the first thing I checked, just to be sure it was the same generator. Sellers can be very deceitful whether on ebay or in person.

BTW, the most expensive engine I bought was the one with the wrist pin grooves, and the seller didn't know about it either. It came from a junk yard in Wisconsin and the seller and I are still good friends. All he did was get it running and sell it since it sounded so good. Some day I will bore it for larger pistons, or sleeve it if need be.

unless it was clean, then went thru the flood and is now jammed up...

still very shady to post clean pictures then send something thats clearly been hanging around the shop for a year or more.

eagle · 08-31-2016, 08:41 AM

I had the opposite happen to me. Bought an A engine at a flea market a few years ago. Guy didn't have any idea what the condition was. Pulled it apart, it has all new babbit, valves ground, looks great. Paid $150 for it. I've not got it running so don't know for sure yet but the price was right.

ronn · 08-31-2016, 08:52 AM

as they say- in most cases if its too good to be true, ..................!

cheap stings, but every once in awhile you get lucky.

sandmann · 08-31-2016, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle

Any engine is a pig in a poke...you win some you lose some...its the way it goes.

Yup!

H. L. Chauvin · 08-31-2016, 09:41 AM

FWIW: Buyers and Sellers ?

Suppose a totally uninformed widow has a rebuilt and perfect Model A engine for sale on an engine stand at a swap meet listed for $25.00. She says her husband said it ran perfectly; but, she has no idea what it is worth.

After asking, the buyer starts it, it runs perfectly, then the buyer totally dismantles the engine and reassembles this engine in front of her, sees it is 100% perfect, gives her $25.00 and walks off with that crocodile grin that we see so often.

Morally speaking, who could be labeled as the "Ripper"?

iverson · 08-31-2016, 10:58 AM

reminds me of of the pratt- witney R2800 eng my dad got surpus in the back of a truck he bought at a govt. sale he sold it to his good friend Earl Reinert that sold it to an engine rebulder he knew well that let it sit 20 years before he took it apart and found out everything was missing inside it was a display eng! the big joke was after 20 years nobody wanted a refund!

ronn · 08-31-2016, 11:08 AM

Suppose a totally uninformed widow has a rebuilt and perfect Model A engine for sale on an engine stand at a swap meet listed for $25.00. She says her husband said it ran perfectly; but, she has no idea what it is worth.

HL-that is one strong widow to lug an engine to a swap meet and the stand to boot!

08-30-2016, 07:58 PM	#5
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: ripped off again It takes a sincere caring gentleman like Mr. Harding and Mr. Wesenberg to post messages about being careful with what one buys without investigating. FWIW: Many years ago, when we were kids, at our rural church fairs we used to have "Grab Bags"; i.e., a large cloth bag with a small opening full of nickle and dime toys wrapped in newspaper for 25 cents where one could feel but not see the very thick newspaper wrapping. I learned lots more early on from that old grouchy "Grab Bag" woman than I learned later in life in formal education; but every now and then we are still tempted to take a chance with a "Grab Bag" ...... swap meets or e-bay.

08-30-2016, 08:13 PM	#6
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: ripped off again Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Tom was a victim of bait and switch. The posted pics show a nice clean unit; not one caked with dust and dirt "It appears to have been in a muddy flood" which the posted pics did not hint to The OP may have a crank problem __________________ '31 180A Last edited by tbirdtbird; 08-30-2016 at 08:33 PM.

08-30-2016, 08:24 PM	#7
goodoldvic Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: New Jersey shore Posts: 257	Re: ripped off again Where's the bait and switch. The person listing the generator said I cant pull the starter cord and it may be locked up. And Mr. Wesenberg saw it was offered by a small engine repair shop. When he got it I'm sure he couldn't pull the cord and found it was locked up. It was a poor purchase decision. My original question to the OP was if he was lead to think the engine was rebuilt, or in good running order he doesn't say. Buying over the internet is risky, and a BS story in person sucks too. The first picture in Mr. Wesenbergs post and the last seem to depict the same item, look at the scraped up sticker. just sayin Last edited by goodoldvic; 08-30-2016 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Added last line

08-30-2016, 08:29 PM	#8
wrndln Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5,165	Re: ripped off again Tom, File a complaint with Ebay and PayPal. You have the pictures to prove the seller screwed you. I did this twice and received my money back. They don't make it easy, but it was worth it. Rusty Nelson

08-30-2016, 08:50 PM	#9
Dodge Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Sonoma, CA. Posts: 1,498	Re: ripped off again Yes go thru Pay pal, they are really good about it. I have even got them to send a shipping tag back to the seller.

08-30-2016, 06:01 PM	#1
larry harding Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: western n.c. Posts: 393	ripped off again at the portland ind. show last weekend a guy had an a engine and transmission as well as the rolling chassis it came out of. it looked as it had been running in that chassis. he wanted to sell both but would sell separately. he tried to crank the engine and it would pop on a couple of cylinders, but never really reved up. i suspected tuning or valve problems and made a deal with him (stupid me and it wasn't cheep). today i got it to run pretty good on #1 and #2 cylinders, but #3 and #4 wouldn't do any thing. suspecting valve problems i pulled the head... the valves in #3 and 4 looked new. there was carbon on #1 and #2 valves and the valves and pistons for #3 and #4 were clean, looked new. i put a socket on the pulley nut and turned the engine over. pistons 1 & 2 were 180 degrees apart as they should be. 3 and 4 were in an orbit all their own, making no sense at all. could the crank shaft be twisted or broken and still turn all the way? as i tore the engine down i noticed several things that indicated it had been apart.( copper safety wire in the flywheel bolts, new valves etc.) i'm going to pull thew oil pan tomorrow and see if there is anything to be saved. has anybody seen anything like this???

08-30-2016, 06:32 PM	#2
goodoldvic Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: New Jersey shore Posts: 257	Re: ripped off again Sorry to hear, drop the pan and let us know. Also did the seller give you reason to think the engine was not what it is? Good luck

08-30-2016, 07:40 PM	#4
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: ripped off again When you buy at a flea market you are at the mercy of an unknown seller. Why would you ever pay an inflated price for a completely unknown engine that did not run. Sorry pal but part of the fault rests with you. Wayne . Last edited by C26Pinelake; 08-30-2016 at 09:18 PM.

08-30-2016, 09:05 PM	#11
eagle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eagle Bend, MN Posts: 2,025	Re: ripped off again Could it be a compressor cam in it??? Or ??? Any engine is a pig in a poke...you win some you lose some...its the way it goes. __________________ "There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."

08-30-2016, 09:10 PM	#12
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: ripped off again Yes, I'm anxious to see what Larry's engine looks like inside the lower end. I once bought an engine as is, but when I showed it to a friend and tipped it on the side I heard a bunch of clunking. That's when I knew I just bought a pile of junk. The oil pump had come out of place and got mixed up with the spinning rods, so it was a pile of parts down under. Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 08-30-2016 at 11:30 PM.

08-30-2016, 09:32 PM	#13
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,497	Re: ripped off again A few years ago, I was offered a reconditioned (never run) engine by a friend in Canada. I declined because it is so far away. A couple of years later, he sold it to one of his friends over there who wen to all the trouble of putting it in his car. When he tried to start it, it didn't even run - only rattled. Seems the engine he collected from the reconditioner hadn't been touched other than a coat of paint. The workshop had disappeared so he was out a few thousand $. I had a lucky close call! __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

08-31-2016, 08:41 AM	#15
eagle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eagle Bend, MN Posts: 2,025	Re: ripped off again I had the opposite happen to me. Bought an A engine at a flea market a few years ago. Guy didn't have any idea what the condition was. Pulled it apart, it has all new babbit, valves ground, looks great. Paid $150 for it. I've not got it running so don't know for sure yet but the price was right. __________________ "There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."

08-31-2016, 08:52 AM	#16
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,795	Re: ripped off again as they say- in most cases if its too good to be true, ..................! cheap stings, but every once in awhile you get lucky.

08-31-2016, 09:41 AM	#18
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: ripped off again FWIW: Buyers and Sellers ? Suppose a totally uninformed widow has a rebuilt and perfect Model A engine for sale on an engine stand at a swap meet listed for $25.00. She says her husband said it ran perfectly; but, she has no idea what it is worth. After asking, the buyer starts it, it runs perfectly, then the buyer totally dismantles the engine and reassembles this engine in front of her, sees it is 100% perfect, gives her $25.00 and walks off with that crocodile grin that we see so often. Morally speaking, who could be labeled as the "Ripper"?

08-31-2016, 10:58 AM	#19
iverson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: freeport il Posts: 316	Re: ripped off again reminds me of of the pratt- witney R2800 eng my dad got surpus in the back of a truck he bought at a govt. sale he sold it to his good friend Earl Reinert that sold it to an engine rebulder he knew well that let it sit 20 years before he took it apart and found out everything was missing inside it was a display eng! the big joke was after 20 years nobody wanted a refund!

08-31-2016, 11:08 AM	#20
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,795	Re: ripped off again Suppose a totally uninformed widow has a rebuilt and perfect Model A engine for sale on an engine stand at a swap meet listed for $25.00. She says her husband said it ran perfectly; but, she has no idea what it is worth. HL-that is one strong widow to lug an engine to a swap meet and the stand to boot!