License plate clamps

[Mike]

We are having a discussion on license plate clamps. I need proof on this subject which way do the clamps go on a 1930 Tudor sedan? I say 28/29 are positioned down and 30/31 are facing up.
Thanks for the help.
Mike

[figment]

The restoration guidlines say the clamps mounted from above the headlamp bar and the photo shows the licence plate hanging down from the licence clip. The bolt and nut are located above the headlamp bar. If you have the restoration guidelines it also tell what finish the bolts , nuts and washers were for each year. There is also a lot more information on this subject. Page 18-2 revised 2011.

[Bob C]

The Standards say from the beginning of production until May 1929 license was
below the bar starting in June 1929 the license was above the bar.

Bob

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

They look better turned UP, then the whole bracket is hidden by the license plate & the plate is less prone to being pushed against the radiator.
Bill W.

[jdupay]

Originally Posted by Bob C

The Standards say from the beginning of production until May 1929 license was
below the bar starting in June 1929 the license was above the bar.

Bob

I am curious about something regarding these dates. What date is used for this reference? My engine block which is the main number for the car has a date. But there is also a gas tank date and an assembly plant location and date. Which date do you use to call something May 1929 or June 1929?

[CWPASADENA]

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You would go by the assembly date of the car.

Chris W.

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by CWPASADENA

You would go by the assembly date of the car.

Chris W.

Where do I find that information?

[JDupuis]

The license plates were dealer installed. Correct? So wouldn't it have been however the person at the dealership decided to put them on?
When I owned a dealership; the factory, supplied the fasteners. We swapped them out for better quality ones. When I installed plates, I also put anti-sieze on the bolts, so that in 4/5 years down the road, when the car would get traded in, the plates would come off will little to no problems. I was just planning for the future. .
The Factory never instructed me on how to put on license plates.
That said, I agree with Bill Williamson. I install mine bolts up. Hides all the scratches from years of being used. Jeff

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

They look better turned UP, then the whole bracket is hidden by the license plate & the plate is less prone to being pushed against the radiator.
Bill W.

I agree with Bill.............common sense actually...IMO.

[leo]

I need a photo because I just cannot picture what is being discussed here.....

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by JDupuis

The Factory never instructed me on how to put on license plates.
That said, I agree with Bill Williamson. I install mine bolts up. Hides all the scratches from years of being used. Jeff

I agree but let me put another question out there, if this subject is part of the 'Fine Points Judging Standards, who wrote them and when and if there was no instructions back in those Model A days to dealership, then anything about this subject in the Judging standards are made up just to set a conformed standards that really didn't apply when a Model A came off the line.

I have my bolts down, this, IMO, gives more support for the plate against the support headlight bar.

[russcochiolo]

Leo,
Use the search feature on this site. It worked the first time for me. Respectfully Russ.

[Terry, NJ]

I got a box of "Crap" parts one time. Among these parts were a few 30-31 gas tank clamps. With some creative grinding, I was able to make a usable lic. plate clamp. Check my pics and see what you think.
Terry

[HoarseWhisperer]

The factory did instruct the dealers how to install the new license plate clips per the Ford Service Bulletins of June 29'; complete with detailed illustration.

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by HoarseWhisperer

The factory did instruct the dealers how to install the new license plate clips per the Ford Service Bulletins of June 29'; complete with detailed illustration.

Thank you for that confirmation......If one is restoring a Model A and 'ALL' the Judging standards are applied.....then that's a perfect restoration but if anything else is deviated because of any reason, then having upside down license clamps is kind of muting everything else that's being done.

[wrndln]

Here is the section in the Ford Service Bulletins, showing the license clips installed.
Rusty Nelson

[jdupay]

Originally Posted by cpf240

Where do I find that information?

production date is in front of where the driver sits on the metal cross member behind the wood floor board. There is a imprinted set of numbers and letters there. It contains a letter code for the plant location and then a number that I believe represents production number of the car within that year and then the date. Mine was very hard to read. I actually took some flour and put it over the area and gently brushed it away so I could make out the stamp. The gas tank stamp is on the lower right of the gas tank inside the engine compartment on the driver side. I am sure you know the engine number location - this number is also essentially the VIN number and is also located on the frame but is typically not visible as it is under the cowl area and the body needs to be off to see it. If the number on the engine and this frame number match then the engine is the original. Actually Steve Plucker has great amount of information on this. Here is a link:

http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/studie...ND%20CODES.pdf

[JDupuis]

If I ever decide to show my car for points.....then maybe, I will see which way my license plate bolts were supposed to be mounted. In the meantime I will continue down the gravel roads that are aboundant where I live. Picking up stone chips, and trying to kill insects that happen upon my windshield. . Jeff

[HoarseWhisperer]

If you look at the Service Bulletin image that Rusty posted, it details valid reasoning why the plate mounting is suggested.

I've only shown my Roadster once, just to see how it would fair. But, I really try to preserve the original components for my own historical satisfaction. For some (not all), it's all in the details.

[Mike]

Like I said it was a discussion, if you are showing your car at a MARC or mafca event you better have the clamps position correctly or you will loose points.
Mike

[d.j. moordigian]

You better look at the shape of the 28-29 clamps,..the bolts are meant to be down.
If you mount it with the bolts up,..you bend the "plate" when you tighten the plate.

The 30-31, I believe is correct with the bolts up..different design..

Look at Tom's post #4,..in this thread..
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...e+plate+clamps

[HoarseWhisperer]

Again, the change in clamp style was made mid-1929. June to be exact.

[31 Model A]

Originally Posted by JDupuis

If I ever decide to show my car for points.....then maybe, I will see which way my license plate bolts were supposed to be mounted. In the meantime I will continue down the gravel roads that are aboundant where I live. Picking up stone chips, and trying to kill insects that happen upon my windshield. . Jeff

I'll just blame it on the mechanic at the dealership who mounted them wrong.

[iverson]

Dj is right on our 28 if turned around it bends the plate

[2manycars]

Here is my early 29 tudor with the front plate mounted correctly. I also have a stainless steel plate behind the licence plate to make it stronger.

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by wrndln

Here is the section in the Ford Service Bulletins, showing the license clips installed.
Rusty Nelson

And here it is in the guidelines,

[d.j. moordigian]

This is a Ford photo, from MAFCA. Hope this comes out correct..

http://model-a-ford.org/wp-content/u...-front-web.jpg

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by wrndln

Here is the section in the Ford Service Bulletins, showing the license clips installed.
Rusty Nelson

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

And here it is in the guidelines,

That is a drawing of the redesigned clip from June 1929! Read pages 18-2 and
18-3 in the Judging Standards for the earlier clips...

Dudley

[HoarseWhisperer]

Left: Up through May 1929
Right: June 1929 ->

[Tom Wesenberg]

I have the first style clips and mount the plates just as Bill shows in reply #25.

Somewhere I once read my plate should be mounted in the middle of the two clip parts, but this isn't possible, as the plate hits the headlamp bar before the holes line up for the clamp bolt.

[Jim Mason]

JSC use a number of references included ford photographs. I not aware of the particular reference used for the license plate clamps, but I would assume photo evidence would be high on the list

[Jim Mason]

Nowhere does the Rg&Js state that you have to do anything as written. It's your car do as you want. If you are going to have your car compared to the judging standards be prepared to have points deducted for anything that does match the written standard. I know going in what points I will have deducted. It's my choice to deviate or not.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

That is a drawing of the redesigned clip from June 1929! Read pages 18-2 and
18-3 in the Judging Standards for the earlier clips...

Dudley

Ribbed clips that hung the license plate below the bar
were used from the beginning of production until May
1929. The radius of the curved portion of the clip which
attached to the headlamp bar was 15/32" and the height
of the bolt end of the clip was 1/4". In June 1928 the
height of the radius of the curved part of the clip was
increased to 112 ". The clips were attached to the headlamp bar with unfinished 1/4"-20 x 1" hex head (3 /8" x
1/4") bolts, unfinished lock washers and cadmium plated
1/4"-20 (3/ 16" x 112") hex nuts. Very early vehicles may
have been assembled with raven finished hex nuts. The
bolts were installed from the radiator side of the headlamp bar. The assembly sequence was the bolt, clip, headlamp bar, clip, lock washer, and nut.

If anyone reading this does not have one, get the Restoration Guidelines sold by most vendors and the national clubs. You will not be disappointed. Even if you do not want to have your car judged, this book will still allow you to find the "correct" part as opposed to just any part. As an example how hard would it be to paint a part the correct finish as it would be to just leave it alone?