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Old 05-07-2019, 05:12 AM   #1
Forddan
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Default Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Hi all

I have a 1929 Tudor and I am planning to replace a wheel that have a small crack in the Hub.

My question is do I have to balance it ?

It is one of the rear wheels.

I bought the car 2 months ago and I do not know if the previous owner have done any balancing at all. He told me the crack was there when he bought the car 5 years ago to the owner who did a full restoration. He did nothing to the wheels in those 5 years.

The car drives fine in the town streets at 30-35 miles per hour. I can't drive it in highways or didn't have the opportunity to drive it in a long flat route. Here in MA there are tons of slops and curves when you are driving through the towns streets.

Thank you
Forddan

Last edited by Forddan; 05-07-2019 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 05-07-2019, 06:21 AM   #2
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

I had mine balanced by a local tire shop. They put the stick on weights which arent real pretty but work well. Dyna beads are a good solution too.
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Old 05-07-2019, 06:35 AM   #3
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

In my 60 years of owning Model A’s, I have never balanced any of there tires.

Maybe I have just been lucky.

I just drive on local roads. I also stay under 50 mph. Enjoy.
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Old 05-07-2019, 07:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

I have just rotated the tire on the rim to get the weight close, much depends on how good the balance of the tire is, 3 out of 4 I got perfect without weight
If you have them balanced on a modern machine you have to find a shop with a plate that mounts by the lug holes not on cones ----on the model A the wheels are centered by the lugs
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Quote:
I have a 1929 Tudor and I am planning to replace a wheel that have a small crack in the Hub.
How about just welding up the crack rather than replacing the wheel?
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:50 AM   #6
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Ditto what Katy said. Weld the crack. My 29 runs smooth with no balance attempted.
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

We use a 60 year old bubble balancer (similar style was available from Harbor Freight) with drive on weights collected over the years installed on the inside rim. We check the wheel on the balancer in 2 or 3 positions as a cross check. Almost every classic car wheel/tire combo's we find easily can be out a couple of ounces or more.
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Old 05-07-2019, 01:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

I balance the wheels and drums as a package. Aftermarket drums need to be balanced. I suspect that most ‘barn readers never give it a second thought. FYI, it took 12 ‘35 wire wheels to get 4 good ones.
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

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Originally Posted by katy View Post
How about just welding up the crack rather than replacing the wheel?

Thank you all for your answers. I can't find anyone in my area that would like to weld the wheel. The answer is "we do not do that job on those wheels" or "it is a liability issue so we will not do it".
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

This one is in the front passenger side:



This other one is the spare tire that has also some bent (slightly curved) wires:



What do you think ?

Do I replace them ?

At Mac's primed the cost is $435 each
At Coker primed the cost is $465 each + 65 if I want them powder coated.

As I can't find a good, non-cracked wheel, I was thinking in buying 4 primed and spry paint them cream.

Or buy 2 and try to find a spry paint with a very similar color as the old OR also paint the old ones too.

Any suggestions....

Thank you !!!
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:31 PM   #11
Chris in WNC
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

NO.
I've driven over 50,000 highway miles in Model As without wheel balancing.
Just recently had new tires put on our 35 Chevy, asked the tire store if they recommended balancing, they said "save your money".
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Forddan,

Someone near you may have some good original wheels to sell. I see your location says
'Westford' , but doesn't say what state. We also have had no problems with wheels not being balanced, but the fastest we go is 40 - 45 at most on country roads, and around small town streets. We're not adventurous enough to even think of hitting the highway.
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:52 AM   #13
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Tire shops probably don't want the liability and they even get picky on using plugs to patch tire leaks these days. Your best bet is to find someone in a local club to either weld up the wheel or sell you some new (used) ones. A fellow club member in my club gladly welded a couple cracks in mine, and I was good to go. I did not balance mine and really, unless you have put radials on and plan on going fast, you probably won't need them balanced. That being said, you should really reach out and find a local club. Your bio doesn't say where you are except Westford. If that is Mass, then I would think there has to be a club somewhere within driving distance.
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Old 05-08-2019, 08:10 AM   #14
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Hi all

Thank you for your time writing your suggestions !!!

Yes, it is Westford MA. I will correct that ASAP.

My local club is MINUTEMAN Model A Ford club of Massachusetts. They are all great guys. There is one member that can do the welding, he is retired but I am not... yet :-) and I was trying to find other ways before bothering him trying to find a day and time that is good for me in relation to my type of work and good for him too.

Now that is clear for me that there is no need to balance the wheels I can probably go this route.

Buy 2 primed new wheels. Spray paint them. Power wash the others used wheels. Hand sand them. Prime and then spray paint.

How do you see it ? Stupid, crazy ?

Thanks again !!!!
Forddan
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Old 05-08-2019, 08:25 AM   #15
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Just weld them up and be done with it.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Those new wheels are so expensive. Really depends on your finances, and what makes you feel the best. I am the frugal type personally. I never give up on anything if i can fix it, and what I see there is easily fixed.
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:53 AM   #17
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

I've gas welded small cracks and broken spokes on model A wheels with good results . I have my wheels balanced with the weights on the back side of the wheel on 30-31 nineteen inch wheels .
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forddan View Post
Hi all

I have a 1929 Tudor and I am planning to replace a wheel that have a small crack in the Hub.

My question is do I have to balance it ?

It is one of the rear wheels.

I bought the car 2 months ago and I do not know if the previous owner have done any balancing at all. He told me the crack was there when he bought the car 5 years ago to the owner who did a full restoration. He did nothing to the wheels in those 5 years.

The car drives fine in the town streets at 30-35 miles per hour. I can't drive it in highways or didn't have the opportunity to drive it in a long flat route. Here in MA there are tons of slops and curves when you are driving through the towns streets.

Thank you
Forddan
When I replaced all four tires on my Car here locally, I got new tubes tires and was not aware but they also balanced the wheels with stick on weights! I did not notice them till I started doing a brake job on the front axle! All 4 wheels have the stick on weights stuck kind of hidden on the inside of the rim. I guess it can't hurt, but I notice no difference. My speeds are under 45mph!
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

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Originally Posted by Russ/40 View Post
Those new wheels are so expensive. Really depends on your finances, and what makes you feel the best. I am the frugal type personally. I never give up on anything if i can fix it, and what I see there is easily fixed.
One of our club memebers hought he was doing the right thing a couple of years ago when he bought a complete set of new wheels in preparation for a drive of about 2,000 miles to the national rally. They only just got him there but he had to put the car on the train toget it home. I'd go for decent original wheels every time.
As for balancing, the front of my Tudor used to bounce and vibrate at anything over 50 mph till I balanced the wheels. Smooth as silk now to over 60, whichis enough. I welded an old stub axle to a frame I made. I used second hand bearings (but no notches) set to turn freely. When I mount a wheel on it, the heavy spot goes to the bottom. I use stick-on weights to balance it.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:18 PM   #20
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Though I've never tried them , there is dyna beads that can be poured into the inner tube for balance .
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:20 PM   #21
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
One of our club memebers hought he was doing the right thing a couple of years ago when he bought a complete set of new wheels in preparation for a drive of about 2,000 miles to the national rally. They only just got him there but he had to put the car on the train toget it home. I'd go for decent original wheels every time.
As for balancing, the front of my Tudor used to bounce and vibrate at anything over 50 mph till I balanced the wheels. Smooth as silk now to over 60, whichis enough. I welded an old stub axle to a frame I made. I used second hand bearings (but no notches) set to turn freely. When I mount a wheel on it, the heavy spot goes to the bottom. I use stick-on weights to balance it.
Do you know what the problem was with the new repro wheels?
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:13 PM   #22
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

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Do you know what the problem was with the new repro wheels?
Don't know why - just an educated guess that the wrong alloy of steel was used or not thick enough. The centres were so badly cracked that they were in grave danger of collapsing. My friend nursed the car to the rail depot and was happy to say goodbye as it left on the train. He flew back and picked up the car on a truck to get it to his home. He was not game to drive it any further, let alone in traffic.
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

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Originally Posted by Russ/40 View Post
Those new wheels are so expensive. Really depends on your finances, and what makes you feel the best. I am the frugal type personally. I never give up on anything if i can fix it, and what I see there is easily fixed.
Finally I found a car body shop that will weld the 2 wheels and do some matching color paint to cover the welded area. He told me the matching color will not be exact, but for such small section he think it will looks OK.

Let's see the outcomes. I will take the 2 wheels this Monday and pick them on Tuesday. I will post pictures.

Best
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:40 PM   #24
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

I prefer the original sand blasted STRAIGHT wheels from Berts than the new repro wheels anyday . Berts original Used wheels are real model A .
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:09 PM   #25
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I prefer the original sand blasted STRAIGHT wheels from Berts than the new repro wheels anyday . Berts original Used wheels are real model A .
I can't find any wheel at Bert's site
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:15 PM   #26
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Maybe they are out of them for the time being . I would talk to Steve .
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:56 AM   #27
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Personally I have never balanced my tires/wheels and have experienced no problems. We should try to keep our speed under control and not exceed 50-55 mph for a couple of reasons. First, we are driving with MECHANICAL brakes which seriously limit our braking power. Second we are driving on four TINY tire contact patches which seriously limit our stopping power. Locking the wheels only makes things worse.



I recommend heating up the brake drums by "dragging" the brakes for a good while starting put. Drum brakes need heat to work smoothly. Likely any vibration or shaking is coming from your front end suspension, not tires.



Drive your car with good brakes for a time and see IF? you have a problem. If so then go the balancing route. Good luck.
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

In many cases balancing isn't mandatory . I mostly don't wait for problems . I want mine to be as smooth as possible . I now always have my wheels and tires balanced before installation as I would on the modern vehicles . We usually don't drive our model A's faster than 50-55 . Our mechanical brakes work about as well as modern . Hydraulic activation doesn't necessarily improve the brakes . If the inner parts aren't worn out and the brakes are properly adjusted and set up correctly , mechanical brakes can function very well .
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Old 05-18-2019, 05:17 AM   #29
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

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Those new wheels are so expensive. Really depends on your finances, and what makes you feel the best. I am the frugal type personally. I never give up on anything if i can fix it, and what I see there is easily fixed.
Thank you all for your answers and comments. I can see there is a divided opinion about balancing or not the wheels. As I do not plan on driving the car more than 30-45miles / hour (45 going down a slope :-) ) for now I will leave them unbalance.

About the cracks, as I posted, a body shop offered to do the welding of the 2 cracked wheels. When i took them out, i found that they have been welded in the past. At the inside side of the hub it was visible the welding. Who did it left a big chunk of material. It was also visible that the crack have grown (it was longer that the welded surface).

The guy of the body shop grined all that excess, made 2 small holes a little further from the tip of the crack and did the welding. He explained me that those 2 small holes and the way he was going to do the welding was meant to stop the crack growing. Unfortunately I was not able to see the process and I hope I am explaining it well.

The bottom line is that you can not see at all on the inside or outside of the wheel where the welding was done. It is perfectly flat on both sides. You pass your hands and no feeling at all of a repair. On top of that the paint masked the grinded area..... so for me was a FANTASTIC job.

The picture shows 1 side, but is all like that, inside or outside side of the hub, you only see a perfect smooth wheel.

The paint on the wheel looks so nice that I finish taken the others also for a paint refresh. They also straightened all the bent wires. There were a few in all the wheels.

Bottom line : They painted the 5 wheels, straightened the bent wires and welded 2 crack for..... FREE !!!

They didn't want to charge me. So I order a bunch of big pizzas for all the guys that work at that body shop (8 employees).



This is one of the cracked wheels... smooth all around the hub.

Have a nice day !!!

Last edited by Forddan; 05-18-2019 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 05-18-2019, 05:33 AM   #30
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Wow that wheel turned out great and sounds like you may have made a couple of friends along the way.


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Old 06-05-2019, 03:16 PM   #31
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Quote:
Quote:
I have a 1929 Tudor and I am planning to replace a wheel that have a small crack in the Hub.
How about just welding up the crack rather than replacing the wheel?
I read that yesterday. Then I checked the wheel hubs on my roadster. And found that two rims have a crack! I had this welded today with WIG/TIG-procedure. That's fine.

Once again a helpful thank you to this forum!


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Old 06-05-2019, 05:45 PM   #32
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

VERY nice! Think of what lousy repo wheels would have set you back.
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Old 06-07-2019, 05:57 AM   #33
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

I thought of this thread today as I balanced a set of 5 wheels. The tyres are new B F Goodrich 19" (USA made) on good rims. None of them needed less than 70 grams (2 1/2 ounces) and the worst was 230 grams - that's 8 1/4 ounces! Yikes! With a tyre as lousy as that, I think it (and the car) would be bouncing all over the place at 45 mph or less.
Is it needed? I think absolutely so.
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Old 06-07-2019, 06:23 AM   #34
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

I think too. New Firestone. The left wheel had 2 ounces, the right 5 ounces unweight.
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Old 06-07-2019, 02:58 PM   #35
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I think too. New Firestone. The left wheel had 2 ounces, the right 5 ounces unweight.
A few years ago, we couldn't buy a decent tube. Seems the rot has extended to the tyres as well. Good tyres have been mede for a century. Will they ever learn not to meddle with something that doesn't need it?
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:22 PM   #36
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

If your fenders and headlights are bouncing around, then you probably need balancing.
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:23 AM   #37
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Default Re: Tire wheel balancing: is it needed ?

Safety first! Looking at the photos it appears the crack shown has been previously tack welded. It also looks like there is some deep corrosion going on. Personally, I would heave the rim and replace it. It's not worth taking a chance and having it fail, even going 35mph.
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