The Ford Barn

Fred F. Griffin · 06-13-2021, 02:39 PM

Have a knock that sounds like it is coming from the Starter or possibly the flywheel. Any ideas! Thanks! Thanks

Gene F · 06-13-2021, 02:52 PM

When did this start? You have owned the car for years? What have you investigated so far? When you drive the car down the driveway, does load, or coast affect it? Only knock when idling?

Fred F. Griffin · 06-13-2021, 03:52 PM

Started it up to pull back in the garage and heard the knock. Pulled it in and proceeded to use a 1” wood dowel rod to listen and find the noise (old trick my dad taught me). Seems like the majority of the noise was coming from th starter area.

Fred F. Griffin · 06-13-2021, 03:53 PM

I put my hand on the starte and can feel it. Possible flywheel problem?

Fred F. Griffin · 06-13-2021, 03:55 PM

Starter problem? Just don’t know. Hate the thought of removing the motor.��

700rpm · 06-13-2021, 04:04 PM

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Pull the starter & check for damaged spring or spring bolt, condition of the bendix drive, and trueness of the shaft. Run a bench test on it by attaching jumper cables and watch for wobble. While you have it off, turn the engine by hand and observe the flywheel gear to ascertain any chipped, broken, or missing teeth. If all this seems good, I don’t know what else I’d check.

Put your location in your avatar. There may be someone close to you can help.

Patrick L. · 06-13-2021, 04:28 PM

Kinda sorta sounds like the stater drive is hitting the ring gear. Just remove the starter and take a look. While its out check that the ring gear hasn't walked and is in place.

Fred F. Griffin · 06-13-2021, 04:37 PM

It is an AR flywheel. WHat do you mean by “walked”?

Tacoma Bob · 06-13-2021, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred F. Griffin

It is an AR flywheel. WHat do you mean by “walked”?

Ring gear is loose and ready to come off.

Patrick L. · 06-13-2021, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred F. Griffin

It is an AR flywheel. WHat do you mean by “walked”?

The ring gear can move over the years and might not be against the flange as it should. Once the starter is out just take a look as you turn the engine over to get a good look at the full diameter of the flywheel. If it's 'walked' you'll see a gap. If thats happened the wheel can be driven/tapped back into place and staked. The engine can be turn over using a screwdriver/prybar thru the starter hole against the ring gear.

1crosscut · 06-13-2021, 05:53 PM

Remove the starter and start it using the hand crank. If the noise is gone you've narrowed down the possibilities.

Greg Jones · 06-13-2021, 06:30 PM

Pulling a Model A starter is not so bad, pretty easy actually in the big scheme of things. Another thing to check is starter mounting bolts being too long, but I presume if that was the case you would have heard it long before now.

katy · 06-14-2021, 11:23 AM

Take one of the cables off the battery before removing the starter.
When removing the starter, remove one bolt, replace it with a headless bolt. Then remove the other 2 bolts. When reinstalling the starter the headless bolt helps to hold the starter in place while you re-install the other 2 bolts.

Fred F. Griffin · 06-14-2021, 03:39 PM

What does “staked” mean? In one of the replies. Thanks!

katy · 06-15-2021, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred F. Griffin

What does “staked” mean? In one of the replies. Thanks!

Staking is using a sharp punch to displace metal to make something fit tighter. For example, if one had a nut that was a loose fit on a bolt or stud, taking a hammer and a sharp punch and punching a bunch of divots on one side of the nut, close to the threads.
Another example would be on a starter or generator, where the flat head bolts holding the field poles in place there is no lock washer. Sometimes the metal around the head of the bolt is staked (using a sharp punch, displacing some of the body metal) to "lock" the bolt in place.

Hope this makes sense.

Fred F. Griffin · 06-22-2021, 12:53 PM

Took starter out and found that the flywheel ring gear was walking out. The starter pinion gear was worn and not meshing with the ring gear. It was hammering the gear off. Kept turning the flywheel with the crank and lightly taping it back tight. Then I will stake it to the flywheel next. Wish me luck and thanks for the ideas!

CarlG · 06-22-2021, 03:36 PM

Who's there?

Fred F. Griffin · 06-22-2021, 03:54 PM

Fixed the problem! Back in the game! Yes

Patrick L. · 06-22-2021, 04:15 PM

Good.

700rpm · 06-22-2021, 05:46 PM

Thanks for the followup.

06-13-2021, 02:39 PM	#1
Fred F. Griffin Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Sioux City Posts: 21	Knock Knock Have a knock that sounds like it is coming from the Starter or possibly the flywheel. Any ideas! Thanks! Thanks

06-13-2021, 02:52 PM	#2
Gene F Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,958	Re: Knock Knock When did this start? You have owned the car for years? What have you investigated so far? When you drive the car down the driveway, does load, or coast affect it? Only knock when idling?

06-13-2021, 03:52 PM	#3
Fred F. Griffin Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Sioux City Posts: 21	Re: Knock Knock Started it up to pull back in the garage and heard the knock. Pulled it in and proceeded to use a 1” wood dowel rod to listen and find the noise (old trick my dad taught me). Seems like the majority of the noise was coming from th starter area.

06-13-2021, 03:53 PM	#4
Fred F. Griffin Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Sioux City Posts: 21	Re: Knock Knock I put my hand on the starte and can feel it. Possible flywheel problem?

06-13-2021, 03:55 PM	#5
Fred F. Griffin Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Sioux City Posts: 21	Re: Knock Knock Starter problem? Just don’t know. Hate the thought of removing the motor.��

06-13-2021, 04:04 PM	#6
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,902	Re: Knock Knock Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Pull the starter & check for damaged spring or spring bolt, condition of the bendix drive, and trueness of the shaft. Run a bench test on it by attaching jumper cables and watch for wobble. While you have it off, turn the engine by hand and observe the flywheel gear to ascertain any chipped, broken, or missing teeth. If all this seems good, I don’t know what else I’d check. Put your location in your avatar. There may be someone close to you can help. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

06-13-2021, 04:28 PM	#7
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Knock Knock Kinda sorta sounds like the stater drive is hitting the ring gear. Just remove the starter and take a look. While its out check that the ring gear hasn't walked and is in place.

06-13-2021, 04:37 PM	#8
Fred F. Griffin Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Sioux City Posts: 21	Re: Knock Knock It is an AR flywheel. WHat do you mean by “walked”?

06-13-2021, 05:53 PM	#11
1crosscut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 1,907	Re: Knock Knock Remove the starter and start it using the hand crank. If the noise is gone you've narrowed down the possibilities. __________________ Dave / Lincoln Nebraska

06-13-2021, 06:30 PM	#12
Greg Jones Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Aiken, South Carolina Posts: 695	Re: Knock Knock Pulling a Model A starter is not so bad, pretty easy actually in the big scheme of things. Another thing to check is starter mounting bolts being too long, but I presume if that was the case you would have heard it long before now.

06-14-2021, 11:23 AM	#13
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,042	Re: Knock Knock Take one of the cables off the battery before removing the starter. When removing the starter, remove one bolt, replace it with a headless bolt. Then remove the other 2 bolts. When reinstalling the starter the headless bolt helps to hold the starter in place while you re-install the other 2 bolts. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

06-14-2021, 03:39 PM	#14
Fred F. Griffin Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Sioux City Posts: 21	Re: Knock Knock What does “staked” mean? In one of the replies. Thanks!

06-22-2021, 12:53 PM	#16
Fred F. Griffin Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Sioux City Posts: 21	Re: Knock Knock Took starter out and found that the flywheel ring gear was walking out. The starter pinion gear was worn and not meshing with the ring gear. It was hammering the gear off. Kept turning the flywheel with the crank and lightly taping it back tight. Then I will stake it to the flywheel next. Wish me luck and thanks for the ideas!

06-22-2021, 03:36 PM	#17
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Knock Knock Who's there? __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

06-22-2021, 03:54 PM	#18
Fred F. Griffin Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Sioux City Posts: 21	Re: Knock Knock Fixed the problem! Back in the game! Yes

06-22-2021, 04:15 PM	#19
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Knock Knock Good.

06-22-2021, 05:46 PM	#20
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,902	Re: Knock Knock Thanks for the followup. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.