Can you help ID these Vehicles?

[JimG]

I am normally on the V8 side, but have been going through some family photos and I have come across a couple of car pictures I can't identify that maybe you would like to help with. They are all pretty early. The first one with my father's uncle at the wheel has a front end somewhat like a Franklin? No spoked wheels however. The second one has my father's aunt next to an early car. He told me that in the 1930's they used to have an old Willy's Knight in the barn that the chickens roosted on. Maybe the car before it became a chicken coop? The third one has that same uncle on the back of an early Harley Davidson - year??? The fourth one has my Great Grandfather at the wheel of what my father told me was an Overland, around 1917.

You could look at this thread on the V8 side to see larger pictures:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334194

[mercman from oz]

This mystery car is an early Twenties' Renault

[JimG]

Thanks Mercman. Images on-line look similar to a 1922 Renault. Here is one that seems similar but is a Cabriolet, not a 4 door Phaeton. I would think this was a very unusual car in the USA. I didn't know you were on the model T side also.

[mercman from oz]

1922 Renault, similar to the mystery car - JimG

[stickshift]

Were those Renaults air cooled? Looks like no radiator and hood louvers angled to catch air. My Dad had a Renault when I was a small boy...engine in the back and air-cooled, always broke down.

[rotorwrench]

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Some vehicles had the radiators at the cowl instead of in the front. Renault was one that had the hood like that but they weren't the only company. In 1908 there were over 250 auto manufacturers. By 1929, the number of active manufacturers has dropped to 44. A lot of popular companies were absorbed by other manufacturing concerns like Maxwell, Wills Sainte Claire, and Essex. GM & Chrysler were both made up of a lot of different automobile & parts manufacturing concerns that were consolidated together. The automobile manufacturers between the end of WWI and the end of the 20s can sometimes be harder to identify but much easier than those made in the horseless carriage era.

[super flat]

The Harley is about a 1916. Gary

[rotorwrench]

That sounds about right on the Harley J model. 1914 was the first year HD had chain drive. The sliding gear 3-speed transmission came along in 1915. Improvements or changes were added about every year in those early years. Headlamps were optional.

[mercman from oz]

This Chevrolet has the quarter elliptic springs so it is a 490 model.
Going by the shape of the front fenders it is between 1916-1919.

[JimG]

Thanks all. I don't know anything about motorcycles, but looking on line at Harley pictures, it looks like it is closer to 1914. The 1916 models all seem to have cutouts at the bottom of the tank over the two cylinders.

[rotorwrench]

Those old J models had the overhead valves for exhaust and valve in jug for the intake. With open rockers, they had to leave room for the rockers to function. The tanks were much easier to fabricate on the early bikes. most of the metal pieces are flat so they didn't need special dies to fabricate them.

The Chevrolet 490, (they cost $490 when introduced) was what split the sheets between Louis Chevrolet and Billy Durant. Louis wanted to build the sportier types like his series C 6-cylinder but Billy needed a model like the Model T to sell the masses and sell they did. Ford had to lower his prices due to the 490 since the Model T was sold for $495 in the 1915 time frame. My Great Grandpop had one of those cars catch fire and burn up. Luckily it wasn't in the barn when it went up. What's left of it is likely still buried in the pit silo at our old family farm place. Looking at the photo, it is evident that they were not a real large car.