Wheel balancing and weights

[KenCoupe]

I recently changed from 1935 16" wheels to the correct 19" wheels with new tires on my 31 coupe. I occasionally get some front wheel wobble when I hit a bump in the road. I am going to check to make sure all the steering and suspension is tight. I have hydraulic brakes (came with the car when I bought it and I didn't know any different then) so I have 40's backing plates and the adapters for the wheels. I am also going to check the toe in and balance the wheels.

When you balance your wheels, do you use the adhesive weights or the hammer on weights? Also do you put the weights on the outside of the wheel or the inside? Thanks for any help you can give me.

Ken

[Mitch//pa]

I doubt very much its a tire balance issue IF A BUMP SETS IT OFF...

[springerpete]

The garage I take my modern cars to has a spin balancer with lots of adapters so my 29 A wheels will fit. I used the stick on weights on the inside of the wheel. Been there 3 seasons with no trouble.

[WestCoast]

im not sure the hammer on weights will work, the adhesive weights will, if you cant find a shop to spin balance the tire and you have to bubble balance the tire, put half the weight on inside and half on the outside, trouble with bubble balancing its only good till about 50 to 55 mph

[WestCoast]

an unbalanced wheel WILL START WHEEL WOBBLE, I know from experience

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Also check the toe-in and the linkage balls.
A guy in our club just stopped his death wobble by tightening the 4 linkage screws half or one turn each.

[C26Pinelake]

I will bet a dollar to a doughnut that balance is not the source of your death wobble! There was a good thread on the causes and remedies last week. Do a search! Wayne

[Terry, NJ]

As Mitch said, I doubt your problem is in the balance of your wheels, although this shouldn't be ignored. Spin balancing isOK, but so's a bubble balancer. I fear you have the beginning of a "Death wobble". Going through rough terrain will start it off and you must stop the car to stop it. "Death Wobble" can be caused by many things, frinstance.Just about any worn front end parts. Steering balls should be checked for out of round. More than .020 OOR should be replaced.There are bushings on the ends/eyes of the springs and these wear through and must be replaced. A word to the wise here, Don't try taking your springs apart. With the tension in these springs there is a great likelyhood of a serious injury or worse. The first place to check is the wheel bearings. Jack it up and shake the wheels. Look for looseness and fix it.
Terry

[CarlG]

After all the other problems are taken care of, try balancing beads. They really work.
http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/wheel-balancing-beads

[Mitch//pa]

I've seen plenty of bubble balancing that was not good at any speed and if it does work it's pure luck, that's like doing an alignment with a stick

[KenCoupe]

Thanks for all the advice. In the next few days I will go through and check the linkage screws, the nut at the steering wheel, steering balls, bushings, etc. Even if the wobble is not from wheel balance, I think I will balance the wheels and check the toe in (can't hurt and might make the tires last longer.)

Thanks again, and I will post my results when I have had a chance to go through everything.

Ken

[C26Pinelake]

if you end up balanceping try the beads. I have had great success with them. Wayne

[Terry, NJ]

I must be lucky! I've never had a problem with the method! Just get the weight and split it, half on the inside and half on the outside. With the narrow Mod A rims, the weight need not be split. With modern tires, I find very little weight is needed to correct the imbalance. As opposed to the older tires. I once had a snow tire that required 6 oz to run correctly. I haven't seen anything like that in years. One problem I accidentally discovered was with my neighbors car. The tire could not be balanced! Whenever you thought you had the light side of the wheel, it moved. I finally realized what was going on, the tire was full of water. The previous owner never thought to drain his compressor and the tank was full of condensate, so much so that it was going out the air hose with the air and filling the tire with as much water as air. We drained and dried everything and it was fine.
Terry

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

I've seen plenty of bubble balancing that was not good at any speed and if it does work it's pure luck, that's like doing an alignment with a stick

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

I must be lucky! I've never had a problem with the method! Just get the weight and split it, half on the inside and half on the outside. With the narrow Mod A rims, the weight need not be split. With modern tires, I find very little weight is needed to correct the imbalance. As opposed to the older tires. I once had a snow tire that required 6 oz to run correctly. I haven't seen anything like that in years. One problem I accidentally discovered was with my neighbors car. The tire could not be balanced! Whenever you thought you had the light side of the wheel, it moved. I finally realized what was going on, the tire was full of water. The previous owner never thought to drain his compressor and the tank was full of condensate, so much so that it was going out the air hose with the air and filling the tire with as much water as air. We drained and dried everything and it was fine.
Terry

Hi Terry
Your close enough,,stop by with one of your bubbled tires and we'll check its accuracy on the smart weight balancer

[Terry, NJ]

Well thanks, Mitch! but that probably isn't going to happen for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is my bad back. My wife gives me hell when I try lifting something like a tire. So I had my tires mounted and balanced on my truck upon purchase. I don't like it but whatcha gonna do when you're disabled? It's about $35 extra and that always galls me, someone charging me for something I can do myself. But at 72YO. I've got to admit I'm slowing down and my back's a special problem. I'm going to keep the balancer and I will just do Mod A wheels from time to time. Which brings us to the real question, Why does anyone need the degree of accuracy that the word "Smart" implies?In all my cars, for which I have mounted and balanced the tires in the last 40 years, I have never noticed any great difference in the "Modern" spin balancing and my archaic, old method. This like buying a two Lb hammer and it actually weighs 2.1 Lbs. Does it really make a difference? Then there's the problem of wheel weights themselves. What do you do when the error is just a little over or under the error indicated. I have shaved weights when the error was under, but there's not much you can do if it requires more weight to correct the error.
Terry

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Hi Terry
Your close enough,,stop by with one of your bubbled tires and we'll check its accuracy on the smart weight balancer

[Mitch//pa]

OK Terry

For the record I never found the need to balance my A wheels..

[Joef21]

If you have certain later ford drums with your hydraulic brakes you might need spacers behind your wheels, unless the adapters you mention are these spacers.

[KGBnut]

I've always just balanced them on the car, and used the hammer on weights, and I split the weights between inside and out. I rarely hit speeds over 50, and that is plenty good enough balance for me.

Then, because I'm nuts, I paint the balance weights.

[Terry, NJ]

I balance the wheels of anything that goes faster than 25 mph. You never know what you're going to find. And there's no reason to ride around with grossly out of balance tires. It may be masking another problem. "Nah, it's just the wheels, they're not balanced!" No, It may be something else!
Terry

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

OK Terry

For the record I never found the need to balance my A wheels..

[KenCoupe]

Originally Posted by Joef21

If you have certain later ford drums with your hydraulic brakes you might need spacers behind your wheels, unless the adapters you mention are these spacers.

Yes, the adapters I mention are the spacers. My drums are 1940 in front and 1948 in back if I remember correctly.

[KenCoupe]

Originally Posted by KGBnut

I've always just balanced them on the car, and used the hammer on weights, and I split the weights between inside and out. I rarely hit speeds over 50, and that is plenty good enough balance for me.

Then, because I'm nuts, I paint the balance weights.

Thanks, I like the idea of painting the weights so they are not as noticeable.

[Dollar Bill]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

OK Terry

For the record I never found the need to balance my A wheels..

Plus 1

But if I did need to balance them, I would use the beads as IMHO the stick/hammer on weights detract from the appearance.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Dollar Bill

Plus 1

But if I did need to balance them, I would use the beads as IMHO the stick/hammer on weights detract from the appearance.

Yep exactly

[Marshall57]

The way I do it is to take a front wheel bearing loose until it turns very easily, and then put on a wheel. It will go to the heavy side down, I use hammer on weights and put them on the inside of the wheel. Just add or remove weights until the wheel doesn't find a consistent place to stop. Three more and they will all be done. I have been up to speeds that shouldn't be achieved in a model A and the tires were rock solid and smooth.
A real problem is having a tire put on the wheel incorrectly, watch your line on the tire and make sure it is on the wheel evenly so it will run true.

[KGBnut]

Originally Posted by Marshall57

The way I do it is to take a front wheel bearing loose until it turns very easily, and then put on a wheel. It will go to the heavy side down, I use hammer on weights and put them on the inside of the wheel. Just add or remove weights until the wheel doesn't find a consistent place to stop. Three more and they will all be done. I have been up to speeds that shouldn't be achieved in a model A and the tires were rock solid and smooth.
A real problem is having a tire put on the wheel incorrectly, watch your line on the tire and make sure it is on the wheel evenly so it will run true.

That is pretty much what I do, only I divide the weight between the inside and outside of the rim.

One thing to keep in mind, you are balancing the tire/rim/brake-drum combination... so if you remove the wheel for some reason, you want to put the wheel back in same position. I put a line on the brake-drum with a tire crayon to mark where the valve stem goes.

Ken

[Kurt in NJ]

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I got 3 out of 4 within 1/4 ounce by moving the tire on the rim

[burner31]

Originally Posted by CarlG

After all the other problems are taken care of, try balancing beads. They really work.
http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/wheel-balancing-beads

I start getting wheel bounce when I near fifty and anything over, I rarely hit fifty but sometimes I have to (traffic)
You're saying these beads will fix that issue?
In my mind I don't see how they would work, seems beads in the tire would make matters worse.
How am I wrong on this and beads are right?

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I was once watching a Man balancing the NEW General Tires for my '81 Maxima. As he picked up an 8" weight, we made EYE contact, I shook my head "NO" & he whipped the tire off & got another from the back room!
Bill Fussy

[29Cabriolet]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Also check the toe-in and the linkage balls.
A guy in our club just stopped his death wobble by tightening the 4 linkage screws half or one turn each.

Can you better describe or have a pic of where the linkage screws are found? (somewhat of a novice here )

[Goldhardt]

Originally Posted by burner31

I start getting wheel bounce when I near fifty and anything over, I rarely hit fifty but sometimes I have to (traffic)
You're saying these beads will fix that issue?
In my mind I don't see how they would work, seems beads in the tire would make matters worse.
How am I wrong on this and beads are right?

Here is a brief video showing how the beads work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq263AYgyYg

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by 29Cabriolet

Can you better describe or have a pic of where the linkage screws are found? (somewhat of a novice here )

Those are the large screw plugs in the ends of the tie rod and drag link.

BTW, the guys on the Studebaker site refer to the drag link as "the reach rod". That's one I'd never heard before.

[KenCoupe]

I asked about this a few weeks ago because I got intermitant wheel wobble, but I had to go out of town and didn't get to it until yesterday. As suggested, I checked all steering and suspension to make sure everything was tight and the correct shape (round - not oval, etc.). Everything was tight and round. I also checked the toe-in. It was very close (about 1/32) but I adjusted it so it was completely correct. I had the wheels spin balanced and they are all now dead on from a balance standpoint. The A drives better now, however I discovered my wheels are bent. I think that is probably the problem with the wheel wobble. I am going to look into straightening the wheels, but may look for new, unbent wheels.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

Ken

[Synchro909]

What happens when a tyre with those dynabeads is punctured? Do you lose the beads? Do they help slow or stop the leak? Can a tube with beads in it be reused when new tyres are fitted. YES, I do reuse tubes and have done so all my life unless it is obviously KAPUT.

[burner31]

Originally Posted by Goldhardt

Here is a brief video showing how the beads work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq263AYgyYg

Interesting video, thank you Mr Goldhardt.
Being a visual kind of guy this answer's my question.

[Dave H]

In addition to everything else that wiggles in the front end, wheel shimmy can be the result of the steering box being loose where it is bolted to the frame.

[ian Simpson]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

OK Terry

For the record I never found the need to balance my A wheels..

I too never balance my Model A wheels. It is just not necessary for the relatively slow speeds involved. I fixed wheel wobble issues last year by refreshing tie rod ends and other related components.

A Model A tyre/wheel combination is very similar to motorcycle wheels from the 60's. Back then we did simple static balancing and wrapped non-cored wire solder around the spokes for weights. Worked well at speeds up to 140+mph. Maybe this would suffice for speeds up to 60mph of a typical Model A.

[Terry, NJ]

I've had quite a bit of experience with "Death Wobble" between my three Mod. A s and some of it you probably won't catch by jacking it up and shaking the front end. Like the spring bushings. If they're worn out there's enough tension on the spring to hold everything in place while you shake the wheels. These can be diagnosed visually by inspecting the shackles. If the shackle bolts/studs are not dead center in the "eye" of the spring, the bushings are worn out, Not an expensive fix, but it's annoying with out a spring spreader.
Ditto for the "Torsion rod/bars" (Stabilisers) that go from the ends of the front axle to the ball joint bolted on to the bottom of the bell housing. Just keep looking! There's something loose somewhere and when you find it and fix it, the problem will be solved.
Terry

[denis4x4]

My neighbor has a Snapon spin balance machine and I'm able to balance the wheels (16") and the drums. The wheels are indexed to the drums. I've yet to find a drum that didn't need some help. I also balance my trailer wheels.