Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2020, 12:45 PM   #1
Dean Lemoine
Senior Member
 
Dean Lemoine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Dahlonega, Ga
Posts: 149
Default Toe in adjustment

Can toe in be accurately set without the weight of the engine in the car?
Dean Lemoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 02:02 PM   #2
Gary WA
Senior Member
 
Gary WA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Clinton,WA/Whidbey Island
Posts: 3,242
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

Good question but my take on it would be no!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg walter dripping nose.jpg (19.0 KB, 5 views)
__________________
www.whidbeymodelaclub.com
Gary WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 02-12-2020, 02:16 PM   #3
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: oregon
Posts: 4,361
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

You can't drive it yet so why get in a rush?
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 05:51 PM   #4
tinkirk
Senior Member
 
tinkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Posts: 272
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Lemoine View Post
Can toe in be accurately set without the weight of the engine in the car?


With a straight axle,I can't see why not
Toe in is toe in
Go ahead and set it and then recheck it before going for a ride


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tinkirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 06:43 PM   #5
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 5,211
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

We have often set toe in with car off the ground, don't have room to roll back and forth. Haven't noted a problem yet.
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 08:26 PM   #6
Corley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Battle Ground WA
Posts: 291
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
People make a big deal out of toe in, it's not. Toe in is to take up any sloop in the front suspension, by letting the rolling wheels/tires, as they try to roll toward each other, keep all slack in check. It's a very small amount, because a) it only takes a tiny amount of toe to do the trick, and b) you don't want enough toe in to cause excessive wear on the tires.

That's it! It is not rocket science.

To the question here, since all relevant components are tied to the front axle, and suspension movement can't affect toe in, of course you can set it without the engine in the car.
__________________
Corley
-----------------
Subscribed to the KISS principle!
Corley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 12:07 AM   #7
KR500
Senior Member
 
KR500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Addison,ll.
Posts: 383
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

Toe in is not to take up slop in the front steering. Toe in is to compensate for the fact that with king pin inclination the front tire rotate in a cone shaped formation. If you roll a cone on the floor it will quickly not roll forward or backward in a straight line. So the tires are inclined inward to shape the tire tread touching the road surface so it can roll forward in a straight line.
KR500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 08:52 AM   #8
Corley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Battle Ground WA
Posts: 291
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

Quote:
Originally Posted by KR500 View Post
Toe in is not to take up slop in the front steering. Toe in is to compensate for the fact that with king pin inclination the front tire rotate in a cone shaped formation. If you roll a cone on the floor it will quickly not roll forward or backward in a straight line. So the tires are inclined inward to shape the tire tread touching the road surface so it can roll forward in a straight line.
Well, that's certainly a novel thought, but totally wrong. King pin inclination only comes into consideration when turning. When going straight down the road, the king pin could be welded solid, with no effect whatever. (Just keepin' it real here...) Now wheel inclination, also known as camber, that is a different animal, and does cause the cone shape action, but that is a whole different subject, with little relation to toe.
__________________
Corley
-----------------
Subscribed to the KISS principle!
Corley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 11:26 AM   #9
nick c
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 248
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

I have followed this subject for years, there are many methods of home shop toe end adjustment. Last year I found one that used stick pins in the tire tread, and rolling the vehicle front and back on shop floor, it made sense to me and I used it. I lost the instructions, maybe someone could post a link.
nick c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2020, 05:36 PM   #10
sphanna
Senior Member
 
sphanna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Polk City, Iowa
Posts: 520
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

nick c

Response to your post in #9. I do the stick pin method I think although I don't use a pin. I make an extremely small dot anywhere near the center of the tread with a pen or ,yes even stick pin. This made on both tires at 6 inches above the floor at the rear of the tires. Measure this distance between the dots and record it so as to not forget it. Be sure to roll the car forward enough before you do the first dot at rear of tire to take out all slack. Now roll the car FORWARD until the dot is 6 inches above the floor at the front of the tire. Measure this distance and repeat until the second measure is 1/16 " less than the rear distance. If you have to do this again then continue moving only forward. If not enough room to do that then roll backward far enough so that you roll ahead again to get the 6 " height at the rear dot.
__________________
Steve Hanna, Polk City, IA

Last edited by sphanna; 02-13-2020 at 05:51 PM.
sphanna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 07:51 AM   #11
Dean Lemoine
Senior Member
 
Dean Lemoine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Dahlonega, Ga
Posts: 149
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

Thanks for the responses, itís much appreciated
Dean Lemoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 09:18 AM   #12
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 11,951
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

Toe in is to compensate for flexing of the axle during forward motion. A person would be surprised at how much an axle beam will flex with the pressure of forward motion. On a straight axle vehicle, it doesn't change much under normal vehicle weight load versus no load. On an independent suspension, it should be set under normal loading due to the independent movement of each A-arm.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 02:15 AM   #13
KR500
Senior Member
 
KR500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Addison,ll.
Posts: 383
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

Here is some info in a booklet printed byFORD in 1936
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FSS7007.jpg (57.1 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg FSS8008.jpg (47.0 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg FSS9009.jpg (52.9 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg FSS10010.jpg (54.9 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg FSS11011.jpg (42.1 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg FSS12012.jpg (45.3 KB, 30 views)
KR500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 10:21 AM   #14
KR500
Senior Member
 
KR500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Addison,ll.
Posts: 383
Default Re: Toe in adjustment

Two more important pages to the above
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FSS30030.jpg (55.9 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg FSS31031.jpg (60.7 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg FSS32032.jpg (59.2 KB, 14 views)
KR500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:16 PM.