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Old 02-19-2021, 03:06 PM   #41
mike in tucson
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Default Re: Why not a new casting

Seery is correct, the number of core pieces makes the Ford V8 a difficult part to cast. We all remember the history books telling us how Ford originally struggled to get the casting process refined enough to product good blocks instead of scrap. All those core pieces have to stay in place during pouring....that's why Ford went to using wire to hold the cores in place.

Regarding my original question, it appears that $$$ is the main hold back. Machining is easier today than it was in the 40's. I wonder how much French tooling still exists?
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Old 02-19-2021, 04:03 PM   #42
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I really don’t want to speak for Tod but I don’t think he’s online much to do so for himself. He has said in the past he is a one man band and hasn’t found a good candidate that can help him. In addition he does contract work for others, one job is machining banger heads and exhaust headers for Snyder’s. He has cored his Model A block with lost foam very successfully but said there are issues finding a foundry to work with. His V8 block is pretty far along, I think he started working on cores but then diverted from that to buying some foundry equipment.
As an outsider looking in I think he has bitten off more than he can chew. The man needs help, he cannot do this by himself.
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Old 02-19-2021, 05:08 PM   #43
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No, I didn't. What makes you think those would add substantially to the complexity? You're aware that OHV engines have numerous cores in them, too, right?

For a pattern maker or foundry man, a Flathead isn't an "OMG, this is too complex, we can't even fathom how to handle it" proposition that some of you seem to think.

With the advent of printed cores that such a low-volume project would be perfect for it becomes even less so.

This is like someone being, "XYZ OHV heads are too complex. They can't possibly be made," because of the extra intake and exhaust cores.
I would wish you good luck, but I'll bet that you will never attempt it. Since it is so easy, can you give us your details on your flathead block project? I, for one, am very interested.
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Old 02-19-2021, 06:38 PM   #44
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Here's a link to Terry Burtz's "new" Model A motor. He details the faults of the Ford version and all of the engineering that went into the new design. He had it all worked out and then tried to find someone to produce it. The Chinese were the only ones capable of following the drawings and instructions to cast it. Very interesting reading.

http://www.modelaengine.com
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Old 02-19-2021, 06:46 PM   #45
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Tod is to be admired and commended for his tenacity and dedication.
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Old 02-19-2021, 06:50 PM   #46
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:26 PM   #47
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Is there really a market for new Model A and flathead motors? I hope the sales will cover the investment cost's.
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Old 02-19-2021, 09:00 PM   #48
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"Nothing is impossible to the man who doesn't have to do it."
That's a good one Tubman.

Most realized dreams require 3 things: passion, money and know how. Majority of us are missing 1 of these components.

The creation of the flathead was a dream realized by Henry Ford and his Team. With this team, all 3(passion,money,know how) components were accomplished. Albeight they may not have set out to invent the flathead as we know it, but to create a vehicle/motor that the everyday man could afford.The flathead as we know it was created.

The world today revolves around the love of money. If it is not profitable, it won't happen. Unless that special someone or group comes along with the 3 components, it's dead in the water or a slow go at best. What once was, as most things, has been redeveloped into what is perceived or is better than what once was; Flathead ->->- OHV.

We can all be dreamers but one day you've either got to wake up or have the passion, money and know how to make it happen.
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Old 02-20-2021, 01:13 AM   #49
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Default Re: Why not a new casting

.

SOME of the 'FLATHEAD' casting cores! DD


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Old 02-20-2021, 09:46 AM   #50
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Here's a random idea I had that may not be as crazy as I first thought. It might even come close to economic feasibility. Someone should cast up some Ardun look-alike heads that will bolt to a small block Chevrolet block with the attendant bits and pieces. In addition, make a front casing the picks up the SBC mounting points, but will mount two Ford water pumps and either a front mount (easier) or 8BA post type distributor. Voila, a brand new engine what would be almost undetectable from a genuine Ardun at the cost not much more than a high-end flathead build. Except for the added parts, everythiung else would be a commodity (except maybe pistons, but since there are a jillion piston manufacturers out there, that should be solvable too).

Arduns for the masses!

I told you it was crazy.
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:58 AM   #51
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V8: Wow! Never realized there were so many cores required for the flathead.
I bet those guys working in the foundry at Ford worked really hard in a ghastly environment. Not fun.
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Old 02-20-2021, 11:25 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by tubman View Post
Here's a random idea I had that may not be as crazy as I first thought. It might even come close to economic feasibility. Someone should cast up some Ardun look-alike heads that will bolt to a small block Chevrolet block with the attendant bits and pieces. In addition, make a front casing the picks up the SBC mounting points, but will mount two Ford water pumps and either a front mount (easier) or 8BA post type distributor. Voila, a brand new engine what would be almost undetectable from a genuine Ardun at the cost not much more than a high-end flathead build. Except for the added parts, everythiung else would be a commodity (except maybe pistons, but since there are a jillion piston manufacturers out there, that should be solvable too).

Arduns for the masses!

I told you it was crazy.
I'm not kidding, I think someone did make fake Ardun head covers for SBC's. I remember seeing something ridiculous like this in the late '80's/early '90's. I'll dig around to see if I can find anything. My one buddy who took many picts are shows during this time period, many even have a pict of one with this set up. I'll ask him and report back.
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Old 02-20-2021, 11:47 AM   #53
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I'm not kidding, I think someone did make fake Ardun head covers for SBC's. I remember seeing something ridiculous like this in the late '80's/early '90's. I'll dig around to see if I can find anything. My one buddy who took many picts are shows during this time period, many even have a pict of one with this set up. I'll ask him and report back.
Unless I misunderstand you, you are misunderstanding me. I'm talking a real hemi-head, not just a valve cover. (That comes under the same heading as "Rocket Olds" valve covers on a Chevy.) Since a SBC and a flathead are about the same size, once you get the new stuff bolted on (assuming it's done correctly), there wouldn't be much showing underneath giving it away. Since there have been hemi-head conversions for SBC's in the past, most of the technology already exists. Two relatively simple castings (the head and the front cover) should take hell of a lot less money and effort that an entire flathead block.
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Old 02-20-2021, 12:01 PM   #54
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Unless I misunderstand you, you are misunderstanding me. I'm talking a real hemi-head, not just a valve cover. (That comes under the same heading as "Rocket Olds" valve covers on a Chevy.) Since a SBC and a flathead are about the same size, once you get the new stuff bolted on (assuming it's done correctly), there wouldn't be much showing underneath giving it away. Since there have been hemi-head conversions for SBC's in the past, most of the technology already exists. Two relatively simple castings (the head and the front cover) should take hell of a lot less money and effort that an entire flathead block.
Ah, yes. I did misunderstand.
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Old 02-20-2021, 07:52 PM   #55
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Unless I misunderstand you, you are misunderstanding me. I'm talking a real hemi-head, not just a valve cover. (That comes under the same heading as "Rocket Olds" valve covers on a Chevy.) Since a SBC and a flathead are about the same size, once you get the new stuff bolted on (assuming it's done correctly), there wouldn't be much showing underneath giving it away. Since there have been hemi-head conversions for SBC's in the past, most of the technology already exists. Two relatively simple castings (the head and the front cover) should take hell of a lot less money and effort that an entire flathead block.


Don Feguson already makes an Ardun head for a chevy small block. In the 60's there was another conversion made for the small block which was also a look alike to the Ardun. Both of these conversions are and were limited production meaning EXPENSIVE. Why waste money on a look alike just save up until you can get the real thing.
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