The Ford Barn

[email protected] · 09-13-2023, 02:59 PM

I'm looking at Brake Adjustment in the Les Andrews book and also looking at Paul Shinn on YouTube. Very similar -- but different in how they adjust the rear brakes: Andrews seems to advocate adjusting the rear brakes tighter than the front, while Shinn seems to advocate adjusting them all equally. Any empirical knowledge of what works best? Trying to learn what's best and safest here.

mcgarrett · 09-13-2023, 03:14 PM

I found this video to be very helpful and best as I can tell, it is probably the way Ford intended them to be adjusted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMizfaKHXVQ&t=42s

ModelA29 · 09-13-2023, 03:33 PM

You want the fronts to lock up prior to the rears. If you are on the brakes trying to steer around something and the rears lock up you will spin.

J Franklin · 09-13-2023, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModelA29

You want the fronts to lock up prior to the rears. If you are on the brakes trying to steer around something and the rears lock up you will spin.

Henry Ford had the brakes adjusted so the rear locked up first. You can chose to do things differently but my car stops well adjusted to factory specs.

stevemclark · 09-13-2023, 04:38 PM

Remember when it was 1928-1931 there were very few paved roads so they favored more rear braking then.Today I try to get even braking on a Model A ,it seems better on paved roads .

jb-ob · 09-13-2023, 04:39 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

When new, driving on mostly dirt roads, the rears did most of the work.

Now with solid pavement, some owners prefer to have the fronts & rears work equally.

Your confidence & comfort zone.

[email protected] · 09-13-2023, 05:14 PM

So -- before adjusting, it was suggested I inspect the brakes and pads to be sure they're good... so my next step to doing an inspection, trying to pull the drums off. They will not "wiggle" off -- they're ON. Any suggestions?

WHN · 09-13-2023, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

So -- before adjusting, it was suggested I inspect the brakes and pads to be sure they're good... so my next step to doing an inspection, trying to pull the drums off. They will not "wiggle" off -- they're ON. Any suggestions?

Ralph Herman, one of the best Model A Ford mechanics around. Essex Antique Auto Service, Centerbrook, Connecticut.

He will get it right for you the first time.

Enjoy.

lorenallen · 09-13-2023, 06:43 PM

I have found that adjusting the brakes to the Les Andrews instructions works really well and yes the rear brakes our tighter than the front brakes. You must first fabricate the step board and it is critical that the length of the board be the correct measure from the brake pedal to seat support and then each step must be what les Andrews specs indicate. I was amazed the first time I adjusted the brakes how well the method works.

Curtis in MA · 09-13-2023, 06:54 PM

Make sure the adjustment wedge is fully backed out.

old31 · 09-14-2023, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

I found this video to be very helpful and best as I can tell, it is probably the way Ford intended them to be adjusted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMizfaKHXVQ&t=42s

Sorry, those guys in the video are good, but I am dead set on a brake board for adjusting the brakes. It is not needed.

Model "A" Fords · 09-14-2023, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old31

Sorry, those guys in the video are good, but I am dead set on a brake board for adjusting the brakes. It is not needed.

old31, would you describe the steps in your adjusting procedure with no board please? Accomplishing a stop, differs here from front brakes first, equal braking and rear brakes first. What is your choice?

I am interested in why a method is chosen. We have roads in our area that are from gravel with dirt to pristeen blacktop or concrete. I travel on all roads, enjoying places not in reach using ideal roads. What is suggested to handle this wide range of conditions?

rotorwrench · 09-14-2023, 11:14 AM

Ford put their best systems on the Lincoln product line first. It was first to get the Bendix floating brakes. Ford kept the Lockheed type brakes all the way up to 1948. They kept mechanical brake systems through 1938. Engineers had a different attitude about brakes in 1927 when the model A was in development. The model T only had rear parking brakes and the main drive brake in the transmission so the model A was new territory for the Ford design team. Understanding of what would work best wasn't evident to them yet. Those early model As even had an equalizer system with the hand brake on the left side like a model T.

By the end of WWII, brake systems started development in a more scientific direction. Rear brakes had smaller wheel cylinder bores and some had more narrow shoes than the front brakes.

nkaminar · 09-14-2023, 01:02 PM

Adjust the rods correctly first. You may need to add spacers (pills) in the front to get the 15 degrees forward tilt at the point when the shoes first start to move. Once the rods are adjusted, do not change them.

I found about a 25% reduction is stopping distance when the brakes were biased to the front. This means using the board but adjusting the brakes so that the front wheels start to hold first rather than the rear.

Whatever you do, make a brake test on dry asphalt after the adjustment. The car should not pull to one side or the other and the wheels should have a heavy print on the asphalt. You can do the test on dirt instead if you like.

WHN · 09-14-2023, 01:27 PM

Ford didn’t issue a BOARD to it’s dealers for brake adjustment, end of story.

If you braking system has been properly rebuilt? The adjustment at each wheel is all that is needed to make it work.

If not properly rebuilt? Than all kinds of different things need to be done to get something like a properly working system. There’s no half way here. Either do it right and have a good braking system that’s also easy to maintain. Or get by with something else. We have and will most likely continue to discuss this issue.

In my estimation, do it right the first time and your done.

Soap box out again!

Enjoy.

Patrick L. · 09-14-2023, 02:29 PM

Even more confused now aren't you !?

rotorwrench · 09-14-2023, 04:58 PM

One of the first Service Bulletins had Ford's procedure. It didn't mention the pedal position tool but it did mention the same pedal distance dimensions that a home made board would provide. I don't know why they chose this procedure but they certainly did. They may have wanted to reduce the tendency to nose dive under heavy braking.

Those first stamped steel drums left a lot to be desired. They ended up putting bands on them to prevent expansion warpage. The modern cast iron drums would be way better and especially with shoes fit to the drums.

Adjustment for front braking action first would follow modern systems design. A person would have to try it before completely discounting it as wrong. I'd keep an open mind about it anyway. The main thing is that the car stops in the distance the operator feels comfortable with.

old31 · 09-15-2023, 03:46 AM

Model A, I do the same procedure as NK does.

Then I adjust all 4 wheels the same so that when i do a panic stop the car stays straight and all 4 wheels work about the same effort. So, 50% rear, 50% front.

There are many videos and tons of info on this site that describes adjusting the brakes without a board.

Model "A" Fords · 09-15-2023, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old31

Model A, I do the same procedure as NK does.

Then I adjust all 4 wheels the same so that when i do a panic stop the car stays straight and all 4 wheels work about the same effort. So, 50% rear, 50% front.

There are many videos and tons of info on this site that describes adjusting the brakes without a board.

old31, I appreciate your feedback!
Reading, dead set on a brake board... it isn't needed, was clear to me that you had a lot of experience with brakes and knew what worked. I was curious if you would mention biases on specific wheel positions. Again, clear, 50/50.

I was drawn to your simple confident statements, thank you old31!

Patrick L. · 09-15-2023, 11:28 AM

I think it's simple. Been working on this stuff for 60 years, born a dealership.
I'm one that uses a brake board. I also like 50/50. Mine will lock the brakes at 30-35 MPH.
But mechanical are a strange animal. They have to be right fron beginning to end. Starting with the adjuster, everything inside the drum [ I still use steel] , then the linkage arm angle and slack, then the rod adjustment.
I drive down a dirt/gravel road and give/take a click to a wheel if needed to get all stopping equally.
Once done correctly I find they'll run for years with just a quick click every once in awhile.

09-13-2023, 02:59 PM	#1
[email protected] Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Essex, CT Posts: 39	Brake Adjustment - Confusion I'm looking at Brake Adjustment in the Les Andrews book and also looking at Paul Shinn on YouTube. Very similar -- but different in how they adjust the rear brakes: Andrews seems to advocate adjusting the rear brakes tighter than the front, while Shinn seems to advocate adjusting them all equally. Any empirical knowledge of what works best? Trying to learn what's best and safest here. __________________ Kevin Essex, CT

09-13-2023, 03:14 PM	#2
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion I found this video to be very helpful and best as I can tell, it is probably the way Ford intended them to be adjusted... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMizfaKHXVQ&t=42s

09-13-2023, 03:33 PM	#3
ModelA29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: SoCal Posts: 591	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion You want the fronts to lock up prior to the rears. If you are on the brakes trying to steer around something and the rears lock up you will spin.

09-13-2023, 04:38 PM	#5
stevemclark Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Central Shenandoah Valley,Waynesboro,Va. Posts: 93	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion Remember when it was 1928-1931 there were very few paved roads so they favored more rear braking then.Today I try to get even braking on a Model A ,it seems better on paved roads . __________________ It's not the destination ,it's the journey .

09-13-2023, 04:39 PM	#6
jb-ob Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 640	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) When new, driving on mostly dirt roads, the rears did most of the work. Now with solid pavement, some owners prefer to have the fronts & rears work equally. Your confidence & comfort zone.

09-13-2023, 05:14 PM	#7
[email protected] Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Essex, CT Posts: 39	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion So -- before adjusting, it was suggested I inspect the brakes and pads to be sure they're good... so my next step to doing an inspection, trying to pull the drums off. They will not "wiggle" off -- they're ON. Any suggestions? __________________ Kevin Essex, CT

09-13-2023, 06:43 PM	#9
lorenallen Junior Member Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 20	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion I have found that adjusting the brakes to the Les Andrews instructions works really well and yes the rear brakes our tighter than the front brakes. You must first fabricate the step board and it is critical that the length of the board be the correct measure from the brake pedal to seat support and then each step must be what les Andrews specs indicate. I was amazed the first time I adjusted the brakes how well the method works.

09-13-2023, 06:54 PM	#10
Curtis in MA Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Leicester, MA Posts: 296	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion Make sure the adjustment wedge is fully backed out.

09-14-2023, 11:14 AM	#13
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion Ford put their best systems on the Lincoln product line first. It was first to get the Bendix floating brakes. Ford kept the Lockheed type brakes all the way up to 1948. They kept mechanical brake systems through 1938. Engineers had a different attitude about brakes in 1927 when the model A was in development. The model T only had rear parking brakes and the main drive brake in the transmission so the model A was new territory for the Ford design team. Understanding of what would work best wasn't evident to them yet. Those early model As even had an equalizer system with the hand brake on the left side like a model T. By the end of WWII, brake systems started development in a more scientific direction. Rear brakes had smaller wheel cylinder bores and some had more narrow shoes than the front brakes.

09-14-2023, 01:02 PM	#14
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion Adjust the rods correctly first. You may need to add spacers (pills) in the front to get the 15 degrees forward tilt at the point when the shoes first start to move. Once the rods are adjusted, do not change them. I found about a 25% reduction is stopping distance when the brakes were biased to the front. This means using the board but adjusting the brakes so that the front wheels start to hold first rather than the rear. Whatever you do, make a brake test on dry asphalt after the adjustment. The car should not pull to one side or the other and the wheels should have a heavy print on the asphalt. You can do the test on dirt instead if you like. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

09-14-2023, 01:27 PM	#15
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,824	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion Ford didn’t issue a BOARD to it’s dealers for brake adjustment, end of story. If you braking system has been properly rebuilt? The adjustment at each wheel is all that is needed to make it work. If not properly rebuilt? Than all kinds of different things need to be done to get something like a properly working system. There’s no half way here. Either do it right and have a good braking system that’s also easy to maintain. Or get by with something else. We have and will most likely continue to discuss this issue. In my estimation, do it right the first time and your done. Soap box out again! Enjoy.

09-14-2023, 02:29 PM	#16
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion Even more confused now aren't you !?

09-14-2023, 04:58 PM	#17
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion One of the first Service Bulletins had Ford's procedure. It didn't mention the pedal position tool but it did mention the same pedal distance dimensions that a home made board would provide. I don't know why they chose this procedure but they certainly did. They may have wanted to reduce the tendency to nose dive under heavy braking. Those first stamped steel drums left a lot to be desired. They ended up putting bands on them to prevent expansion warpage. The modern cast iron drums would be way better and especially with shoes fit to the drums. Adjustment for front braking action first would follow modern systems design. A person would have to try it before completely discounting it as wrong. I'd keep an open mind about it anyway. The main thing is that the car stops in the distance the operator feels comfortable with.

09-15-2023, 03:46 AM	#18
old31 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 2,101	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion Model A, I do the same procedure as NK does. Then I adjust all 4 wheels the same so that when i do a panic stop the car stays straight and all 4 wheels work about the same effort. So, 50% rear, 50% front. There are many videos and tons of info on this site that describes adjusting the brakes without a board.

09-15-2023, 11:28 AM	#20
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Brake Adjustment - Confusion I think it's simple. Been working on this stuff for 60 years, born a dealership. I'm one that uses a brake board. I also like 50/50. Mine will lock the brakes at 30-35 MPH. But mechanical are a strange animal. They have to be right fron beginning to end. Starting with the adjuster, everything inside the drum [ I still use steel] , then the linkage arm angle and slack, then the rod adjustment. I drive down a dirt/gravel road and give/take a click to a wheel if needed to get all stopping equally. Once done correctly I find they'll run for years with just a quick click every once in awhile.