Gland rings

[jerrytocci]

Are they worth the trouble ?

[wwirz]

Yes. If you have trouble getting them all installed, the #1 and #4 are the most important because of the bolting holding the exhaust manifold. Be sure to use the copper shroaded gaskets and make sure the manifold is flat across the flanges. Of course, make sure the flanges are clean
Paul Shinn has a nice video on YOUTUBE about replacing the manifold gasket

[rocket1]

If you can't bolt up the ex. manifold with the gland rings it is usually the rear of the manifold that has sagged and must be replaced for correct alignment.

[31Tudor]

No.

[alexiskai]

Save time and see this previous thread, in which no one can agree on the answer, which is exactly what you'll get here too.

[nkaminar]

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Coming from the Model T world I would say yes. But Model A's have a more substantial exhaust manifold so I really don't know. It is interesting that the later manifolds were cast with a larger section near the rear. Did Ford know something?

Cast iron will grow when heated. You can see this in old cast iron cook stoves that have been abandoned because the parts no long fit. The rings in a Model T keep the exhaust manifold in alignment. Without them they warp.

[Bob-A]

I've read somewhere that the repop gland rings sold by the vendors. Are not constructed like the originals. Does anybody know where you can get correct
exhaust gland rings?


Bob-A

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Bob-A

I've read somewhere that the repop gland rings sold by the vendors. Are not constructed like the originals. Does anybody know where you can get correct
exhaust gland rings?


Bob-A

They can be cut from steel pipe.

[Licensed to kill]

Originally Posted by jerrytocci

Are they worth the trouble ?

What trouble??. I made some for my car. Might take an extra 5 minutes to install the exhaust manifold but once it's done it's done. I don't understand why anyone would NOT use them even if they don't do anything. What is the downside???.

[CWPASADENA]

Definitely yes,

Not only do they help keep the exhaust manifold in alignment, they also help with the life of the manifold gaskets.

I have them in all my engines.

My opinion,

Chris W.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

They can be cut from steel pipe.

I can't remember what size it is but there is an exhaust pipe just the right size to make these rings from. We are metric so it may not be available to you guys. I put a length in the lathe and part off a few at a time. Obviously, these rings are one piece, unlike the repop ones you buy these days.

[J Franklin]

We have equivalent here. most of the model a isn't metric anyway, it will never know.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Bob-A

I've read somewhere that the repop gland rings sold by the vendors. Are not constructed like the originals. Does anybody know where you can get correct
exhaust gland rings?


Bob-A

Bob, this is kind of a two-edged sword. Most original manifolds have been re-surfaced where some, -if not most of the recess is missing. At that point, trying to use gland rings is moot. For the home machinist with a mill, the counterbore is re-added with a boring bar.

As far as the rings, most of us just machine them on our lathes out of 1.500 seamless tubing material and go with those. I would need to look at the print again but my (failing) memory says the counterbore size of the block and manifolds is like 1.490".


One other thing, ...a sagging or drooping manifold can be be repaired. You need a fixture to be able to clamp the manifold to. I used an old engine block laid on its side. Use the glands to determine the correct location. Make a plate that bolts to the valve cover area that has a ½"-20 threaded rod on a stand that will push on the boss area of the exhaust pipe clamp. Use a rosebud torch to slowly bring the temperature of the exhaust manifold up to a glowing red in the area of the #4 exhaust port. Slowly start turning the threaded rod adding pressure to the end of the manifold. (Slowly is defined as like ¼ turn or less every 10 minutes so which is about 0.010 of an inch.) The heated cast metal will soften and slowly begin to move due to the pressure from the rod, and when it reaches the correct location you throw a welding blanket over it and allow it to cool slowly. Takes about an hour to do one, and is a great way to save an original non-pitted manifold.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Bob, this is kind of a two-edged sword. Most original manifolds have been re-surfaced where some, -if not most of the recess is missing. At that point, trying to use gland rings is moot. For the home machinist with a mill, the counterbore is re-added with a boring bar.

In their instructions for their manifolds, Bratton's says to check the counterbore on the manifold and the block. You want to make sure the combined depth is sufficient for the gland rings to fit without creating a gap between the two pieces. Not only will it cause leaks, but the manifold ears may break when torqued down.

Now, they recommend filing down the gland rings to fit – I assume because most of their customers don't have a mill. Not sure what the effect of that is compared to deepening the manifold counterbore as Brent suggests.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

In their instructions for their manifolds, Bratton's says to check the counterbore on the manifold and the block. You want to make sure the combined depth is sufficient for the gland rings to fit without creating a gap between the two pieces. Not only will it cause leaks, but the manifold ears may break when torqued down.

Now, they recommend filing down the gland rings to fit – I assume because most of their customers don't have a mill. Not sure what the effect of that is compared to deepening the manifold counterbore as Brent suggests.

When measuring, don't forget to account for the compressed gasket thickness that will be between the manifolds and the block.

Unless someone has flycut and faced the side of the block, that counterbore is generally never affected. If there is minor pitting on the surface, use the JB Weld ExtremeHeat 'Metallic Repair Paste' to level the surface. The process for deepening the counterbore is a little more involved. Sweep the perimeter to find zero in the X & Y axis. Then set-up a boring bar to plunge deeper. For those who do not own a mill, then purchasing a new exhaust & intake manifold is probably the next best option.

[Flathead]

When you heat and straighten the droop in the rear exhaust port, is there a problem with the manifold stretching and that port being slightly too far to the rear of block?

[jerrytocci]

Great answers....Thanks to all

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Flathead

When you heat and straighten the droop in the rear exhaust port, is there a problem with the manifold stretching and that port being slightly too far to the rear of block?

I have only done a couple of them as the job is too labor intensive to be a $$ value. The ones I did seemed to realign with the port fairly easily.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

If there is minor pitting on the surface, use the JB Weld ExtremeHeat epoxy to level the surface.

Would this product work OK to fill cavities in the block surface that seal to the head gasket? I have a couple of divots on mine between stud 13 and the edge of the block. I think somebody was trying to get a gasket off with a screwdriver a few decades ago. Trying to avoid decking the block (I guess actually trying to avoid everything you have to do beforehand in order to deck the block).

Edit: The repair I was contemplating before this was to fill the divots with Seal-Lock Fluid Weld. The Fluid Weld might still be preferable because I wouldn't have to sand it precisely flush.

[Flathead]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I have only done a couple of them as the job is too labor intensive to be a $$ value. The ones I did seemed to realign with the port fairly easily.

Thanks for the reply, I may give it a try on one of my many drooped manifolds.

[Mulletwagon]

They install easy enough so they should be used. If the install was as difficult as putting socks on a rooster I would not bother since the benefit is probably minimal.

[shew01]

Originally Posted by Mulletwagon

as difficult as putting socks on a rooster

Nice analogy. I haven’t heard that one before. :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jerrytocci]

UPDATE>>>>>I got # 1 & 4 to line up and results were great . Also , I used
































UPDATE ......I used JB weld to fix the exhaust manifold and level it off . # 1 % 4 have gland rings lined up and it sounds quiet. Thanks to all





jb

[SAJ]

According to the SDS for JB weld extremeheat it is not an epoxy but a sodium silicate (water glass) putty containing steel fines. A single pack product containing water and finally set by heat after drying.
This makes sense because no epoxy can withstand more than about 260 deg C (500 deg F)and Extremeheat claims 1300 deg C (2372 deg F) which is white heat - way above red heat (about 550 deg C)!
The downside is water glass is brittle and has poor adhesive properties. It is not "sticky" like epoxies
SAJ in N Z

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by SAJ

According to the SDS for JB weld extremeheat it is not an epoxy but a sodium silicate (water glass) putty containing steel fines. A single pack product containing water and finally set by heat after drying.
This makes sense because no epoxy can withstand more than about 260 deg C (500 deg F)and Extremeheat claims 1300 deg C (2372 deg F) which is white heat - way above red heat (about 550 deg C)!
The downside is water glass is brittle and has poor adhesive properties. It is not "sticky" like epoxies
SAJ in N Z

Have you actually used the ExtremeHeat product??

[alexiskai]

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Have you actually used the ExtremeHeat product??

I dunno about him, but I just bought some per your recommendation for the exhaust port pitting and I'm gonna try it this weekend. Will report back about its adhesive properties.

[SAJ]

Brent, I have not used JB weld Extremeheat. My comments are only from the view of an industrial chemist who has formulated similar products many years ago. And to correct the statements that it is an epoxy.
I currently have a Devcon silicate single pack product and another silicate paste containing steel fines on my shelves, I think called "liquid steel" or something. I used them only where supported from escape, as in sandwiched under a gasket etc , because they do not adhere and cling on when not restrained and have no flexibility to resist expansion and contraction with large temperature changes.
Cured silicate glass is very brittle.
I manufactured many well known silicate cracked-block additives in the 70's to add to radiator water. They could be a permanent fix if the crack was in a suitable place and compression was relieved in the cylinder in question until combustion heat from adjacent cylinders cured the silicate. In these cases the silicate was trapped and could not fall out of the crack.
Epoxies have an inherent adhesive quality and flexibility (if properly formulated) that allow them to stay put in external cracks.
None of the sodium silicate products I have tried are good at this in exposed cracks. That does not mean it is impossible, since new compounds are being devised every day.
And again these are only my opinions. In my business my chemists and I I are always experimenting, observing and recording.
Re-readiing the original posts and replies, I should add that Extremeheat should work well to level the block or manifold under the gasket and I was not criticising its use in this application. Only correcting that it is not an epoxy and I do not think it suitable where it can crack and "fall out" of exposed open repairs.
SAJ in NZ

[Ed in Maine]

I see the advantage of using the gland rings to hold the manifold in correct alignment. However, if you cannot mount the gland rings due to a sagging manifold and the manifold is not cracked and very useable, is there any harm done to the block by not using the gland rings. In other words, is there any harm done trying to get a few more miles out of the manifold? Ed

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Ed in Maine

I see the advantage of using the gland rings to hold the manifold in correct alignment. However, if you cannot mount the gland rings due to a sagging manifold and the manifold is not cracked and very useable, is there any harm done to the block by not using the gland rings. In other words, is there any harm done trying to get a few more miles out of the manifold? Ed

Ed, I guess it is like this. Yes for the alignment but the gland rings typically keep the manifold from sagging to begin with. To me it is like, do I need to remove the nail from the tire, -or can I just keep airing up the tire each time I drive it. From my perspective in the cheap seats, I would leave a manifold as-is if it is still mounted on the engine however I would straighten the manifold if it were off of the engine for some reason.