Fender patch

[Russell Reay]

Does anyone make a patch for the rear of the front fender where it attaches to the running board ? I can fab the right angles, but cannot form the bead shape which grasps the wire and extends up about 3/4".

[ronn]

find a junk fender and cut it for your patch

CL is a good source.

[Kevin in NJ]

Junk fenders are the best patch.

What fender do you have?

It matters a lot. For 30-31 there are several styles and they are different enough the patches are not likely to work. There is the early 30 eye brow fender. The regular 30, for 31 there are the long crease and short crease. The 31 type is tought to see until you look for it and see them side by side. The one type the crease in the middle the runs front to back goes fairly far down to the 'flat' part of the fender. These will be more rounded in cross section. While the short crease will be flatter.

Oh, and yes you can find factory cars with a mix of the long and short crease.

Ya, too much information I know.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by ronn

find a junk fender and cut it for your patch

CL is a good source.

Based on what I saw at Gilmore, even a 'junk' fender brings strong enough money where it is questionable if it is the right decision to cut it up. Most fenders all crack, or deteriorate in the same places, so this typically makes them useless as a donor.

[Russell Reay]

I haven't been in the hobby long enough to accumulate spare parts, so have no junk fender available. If it weren't for the bead above the wire, I could easily fab a patch myself. Part of my limitation is that I have no milling machine or lathe. My fabrications are all done with welder, grinder, and hammer.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by Russell Reay

I haven't been in the hobby long enough to accumulate spare parts, so have no junk fender available. If it weren't for the bead above the wire, I could easily fab a patch myself. Part of my limitation is that I have no milling machine or lathe. My fabrications are all done with welder, grinder, and hammer.

This is something that many people do not understand. You already possess everything you need to make that part with the possible exception of confidence. It does not take fancy or expensive tools to do what you need to do. I can walk you thru everything you need to do on how to make that piece. We have spoken by phone, so I can call you in a few days if that is ok. I am busy for the next couple of days preparing for a funeral, but I will reach out as soon as possible and help you with this.

[Russell Reay]

My condolences on the passing of your wife. I appreciate the comment about confidence. I have plenty of confidence in my abilities, but I am no good at faking it. Attached is a photo of my situation, and I have a sheet of 16 ga just for the purpose of making patches.. I would very much appreciate a phone call with you, but take all time time needed for your personal needs.

[rotorwrench]

I've made forms from thin plywood that fit the inside of a bead shape like that. I have a heavy steel plate on my forming table and all sorts of old chisels that are reformed into forming chasers and swages. Clamp the proper thickness of sheet steel stock over the form piece of plywood and start chasing the edge into that shape. That patch is so short that it wouldn't take long to do that and then leave the part that rolls over the wire long so it can be formed with enough length to match the original wire bead. The bend of the fender for the top and bottom edges are not complicated bends and that part of the fender is pretty flat so there wouldn't be a lot more forming to do there.

I purchased a DVD on metal shaping from David Gardiner a long time ago that covers a multitude of different forming techniques. https://www.classicmetalshaping.co.uk/
He has U-tube videos but the DVD goes in depth. Metal Meet is another site I followed for a while. I use cold rolled 1008 AKDQ sheet metal in the proper American Standard Gauge for forming but "old" car body steel can sometimes be used. Draw quality is the easiest to form for complex panels. I still weld with oxy-acetylene and hammer with basic hammers and dollies. Folks repaired stuff this way back in to the early days of coach building. It's sort of a lost art now but it's not as hard as a person might think.

[Tinbasher]

Hi Russell. I can help you to make that piece up. Give me a call 705-715-7628. JP

[Kevin in NJ]

Just about any section of bead from a front or rear fender could be used to make the patch. Of course welding the patch is significantly easier with a TIG welder.

Not sure if it was just the light, but it looks like there is some brazing. If there is then you need to go back to good metal. Also the layer of bondo is too thick for my likeing. I would strip the fender to bare metal to see what shape it is in from front to rear.

I would not do any work to the fender off the frame. All work MUST be done on the frame with a fender bracket first fit to the headlamp bar and the running board brackets straightened. You need a splash apron and a running board on the frame too.

You align the engine side edge of the fender to the inside edge of the frame and work it from there.

The reason for needing to be mounted is because a slight change in the bead line can have significant affects to the final fender shape. Think drooping fender fronts and the like.

Also the crease line running front to rear can be made better with a dull chisle, but it take 4 hands to do the job. Someone has to hold the dolly while you do the hits. You will find that line is lost on many fenders at car shows.

Probably too much information, but they are based on lessons learned the hard way.

[Russell Reay]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

Not sure if it was just the light, but it looks like there is some brazing. If there is then you need to go back to good metal.

I would not do any work to the fender off the frame. All work MUST be done on the frame with a fender bracket first fit to the headlamp bar and the running board brackets straightened.

There is a lot of brazing on these fenders, so I grind it off before repairing with steel. This is the first I have heard about repairing fenders while on the car, but your logic seems sound. Before starting repairs I attached the brackets and the fenders with a couple bolts, then the light bar. Light bar would not fit unless brackets were loosened from the frame. Frame with running gear is outside on a gravel drive. Your comments cast a new light on my situation, and will proceed with that in mind.

[Oldbluoval]

“Just about any section of bead from a front or rear fender could be used to make the patch.”

Kevin is pretty much spot on.

You seem to be patching the front of the fender where it attached to the RB. Some piece of bead likely can be cannibalized for a small piece. However, if one were patching the usuall splitting areas on fronts or rears, the exact curvature is almost impossible to find except for that exact area. So making it is virtually necessary. Kevin used to/has a detail of making such on his website

[Kevin in NJ]

Here is a link to my experiences in getting fenders to work on my car:

https://www.cabriolet.piklefactory.com/front_fender.htm

The thing the got me in the end was most of it was not the need of lots of tools, but thinking it all through with a proper understanding of metal movememt.

What really changed my view of metal work was when I understand what it ment to shrink metal and when metal is shrunk. From there I was able to start making huge progress in what amount to advanced metal work. But in reality it is not so advanced, just applying correct knowledge. The real issue is the amount if incorrect knowledge out there that really screws you up.

If you have a lot of metal work you want to do I cant tell you how much better life is with a decent TIG welder. They can be pricey but there are some decent lower cost units out there that will let you get the job done. If you are older and cant see close anymore get cheaters, magnifying glasses, for your helmet.

Enjoy.

[Russell Reay]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

Here is a link to my experiences in getting fenders to work on my car:

https://www.cabriolet.piklefactory.com/front_fender.htm


Enjoy.

Good stuff!

[JoeCB]

I don't see where anyone commented, but Russell said 16 gage ! Way too heavy for this repair. Lots of luck forming that around the bead. Should be something about half as thick.

Joe B

[Russell Reay]

Originally Posted by JoeCB

I don't see where anyone commented, but Russell said 16 gage ! Way too heavy for this repair. Lots of luck forming that around the bead. Should be something about half as thick.

Joe B

Had a good phone discussion with John Poole (Tinbasher) who introduced me to the dull cold chisel, and confirmed your view that 16 ga is too heavy. I picked up some small pieces of 18 ga from my steel dealer, and spent the day building my patch. Haven't rolled around the wire yet, but otherwise came out OK.

[Oldbluoval]

19 is best but hard to find in small quantity
I’d use 20

[Russell Reay]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

19 is best but hard to find in small quantity
I’d use 20

My welding skills are pushed to the edge w/ 18. With 20 I would spend way too much time filling in burned holes.

[Oldbluoval]

There’s a method often poo-poo’d by experienced welders…..
Slugging….back up a weld with either carbon or copper to prevent blow-thru
Admittedly i do it occasionally particularly on thin or pitted metal that can’t be cut back to as solid as wanted

[JoeCB]

While we are on the subject of steel gage thicknesses... just for info, US Standard gages, in the neighborhood of auto body work.
16 - .0625"
17 - .0563
18 - .0500
19 - .0438
20 - .0375
21 - .0344
22 - .0313