*37 Pickup Rough Ride*

[zippi]

New 1937 Pickup project. You can see the shocks that I pulled off the truck, Looks like they were on the truck for 30+ years. I replaced them with some Monroe's I found for a 47 Dodge. The ride is still rough like I have no shocks at all. The rear air shocks look old but not that bad but I am going to replace those as well. I do know when I replace the front shocks there only seems to be about 1 1/4" of travel upwards. I wish it had more. What about the left spring as it is the original? Any help would be appreciated.

[40cpe]

The shock should about about in the middle of its travel when mounted. You can take the shock loose and measure its extended and compressed length. The installed length should be about in the middle. If the shock is too long for your application it will "bottom out" on lesser bumps.


Terminology of a rough ride varies from person to person. Shocks will not generally cause a rough ride. Bad shocks usually cause the ride to be bouncy. They are designed to dampen the rebound of the spring when it is compressed.

[V8COOPMAN]

Something besides those shocks to think about.......that main leaf in the spring looks to be something approaching 2" too short between eyes. That spring shackle should be at an angle of a little less than vertical with the vehicle sitting at rest. With that shackle sitting with it's spring eye INBOARD at an angle ABOVE 45 degrees (more than half way toward horizontal), when the truck hits a bump and the spring tries to spread it's eyes to absorb the energy from the bump, that shackle eye must be able to rotate toward a more-vertical position. The angle it's at now, I doubt that it would be able to deflect outward when a bump is encountered, unless it were already OVER-centered toward the outboard position to begin with. In the position it's in, and without being able to deflect outward, hitting a bump would seem more like a very solid thunk. In addition, that short shock ain't helping matters, either. That's simple enough to rule-out though....just disconnect the shocks temporarily for a test ride. DD

[Mart]

I don't quite agree with DD's notes re shackle angle, other than agreeing that closer to 45 degrees would be preferable. But I would be interested to see how much travel there is before the shock bottoms out.

I had some too long shocks on a '58 F100, and it gave a very harsh ride especially over the speed bumps in our road. (raised intersections). I fitted some correct length shocks and all
was well.

I would also try it without shocks for a test run at sensible speeds.

Mart.

[FlatheadTed]

If its not a working truck then remove some of the leaves ,also a leaf spring must be greased if your not running Teflon. Ted

[zippi]

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Thanks for the replys guys. The shock compressed is 8.5" and fully extended its 13". Measuring from bolt to bolt on the truck the shock is at 10". I am a shad tree machanic and that's a small shad tree so what would be the easiest thing for me to do first? Thanks guys.

[40cpe]

You could remove the shocks as a test and see if it reduces the harshness of the ride. It will bounce more, though. As already mentioned, if you still have the stock truck rear spring you could remove 3 or 4 of them. It is a trial and error process and not an easy one, especially without the proper tools. I see you have a reversed eye front spring with teflon sliders. I don't know if you can improve it.

[Kurt in NJ]

How much axle travel till you hit the rubber bumpers on the frame??

[zippi]

This is not a stock truck. 70's rear end with 411 gears on air shocks, 350 sbc linked to a Saginaw 4 speed pushing 400 hp. There are no rubber bumpers. Can you explain the reverse eye and is this an after market product?

[Ol' Ron]

Yes, the shackle should be near vertical. If you look at the 46-8 passenger cars they are vertical and have a pan hard . Shackles at a 45 deg angle will prevent sway. Just jum on the bumpers and see what spring rate you have 200 lbs should defect at least an inch.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by zippi

This is not a stock truck. 70's rear end with 411 gears on air shocks, 350 sbc linked to a Saginaw 4 speed pushing 400 hp. There are no rubber bumpers. Can you explain the reverse eye and is this an after market product?

Yep, it is after market, but then the whole spring is! By reversing the end of the springs, the eyes, you lower the frame about an inch. A common modification.

Like ol Ron suggest, might start by determining if you have anywhere near the proper spring rate for your setup.

[V8COOPMAN]

The more I look at the picture, the more it SEEMS is going-on with that front end. It was when you said "no rubber bumpers" that I noticed what looks like a relatively light-gauge, straight piece of channel "iron", welded to the underside of the frame rails in place of the original crossmember, which would normally mount the front spring. Is that a reasonable statement? If so, what other "modifications" from stock are we NOT seeing on your truck's front suspension? Some of those welding beads look kind'a scary. DD

[zippi]

Whoever did the work on the front end didn't do the best job but it looks pretty solid. The crossmember has been replaced with a "U" beam. Other than replacing the shocks I haven't done anything else under the front. Needs some cleaning up.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Mart

I don't quite agree with DD's notes re shackle angle, other than agreeing that closer to 45 degrees would be preferable.
Mart.

Mart......I know that you are well-versed in suspension and things MECHANICAL. I know that I probably didn't express my idea about the angle of the shackles very clearly. What I was trying to get across is that for the spring to work, and to dampen a bump, the ARCHED main leaf (to keep it simple) must flatten itself to some degree. For the arch to become MORE-flat, the distance between spring eyes must INCREASE. For that to happen, the shackles should pivot downward. But looking at the spring eyes, try to imagine the direction those two spring eyes MUST geometrically travel when that leaf deflects for a bump. I BELIEVE that the shape of that leaf will ATTEMPT to push those two spring eyes at an angle directly toward the TOP pivot of the shackle. With the angle of the shackle as it is, nothing's gonna move. That's why I stated that it would probably feel like a solid thunk. Of course, I could certainly be full of it, too. Cheers Mart! DD

[JSeery]

That would require a longer (as in new) spring would it not? Not sure longer shackles would help much.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JSeery

That would require a longer (as in new) spring would it not? Not sure longer shackles would help much.

Remember...I said the spring looked TOO short.

I DO NOT advocate longer shackles......they're just fine. That spring does NOT have a whole lot of arch left in it. For it to "work", it needs more arch, and the ability for the eyes to be able to spread apart and absorb the shock load (a bump) as the axle exerts pressure upward on the spring ends. DD

[kiwitony]

as v8coopeman said as this front end stands there is no suspension at all. when the car hits a bump the spring needs to flatten and get longer, the shackle angle prevents this as it can only lengthen the spring by the front of the car lifting up which ain't going to happen so basicaly the spring is driving into the spring perches. The shackles need to be vertical so the spring can lengthen and shorten as needed for the road conditions, but this leads to the problem of allowing the front end to move sideways a bit . This is why as oldron said a panard rod is needed to remove sideways sway. If you lookat Tbucket and early ford suspension the shackles are slightly upwards still not great but the spring deflects backward the front doesn't need to lift. I guess that at the 45 degrees inward at the bottom old henry compromised by having resonable ride and little sideways movment. He changed this in the fortys and those fords are very smooth riding.

[zippi]

I appreciate all the reply's. The pickup rides on the road as one would expect a 37 to ride it's just those bumps that bang the front end. If I have the spring re-arched would that change the stance in the front? I like the stance it has now. So, what would be my first plan of action?

[Kurt in NJ]

I doubt that it rides like a properly restored 37
The banging it probably the suspension bottoming out---either the shocks bottoming (not very good for the shocks), or the suspension hitting the frame hard due to the lack of rubber bump stops

[flatford8]

The spring needs to be longer to start. Main leaf needs more distance between the eyes with the other leaves being the proper length to match it...... Mark
P.S.....you may have to deal with the stance or the ride.