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Old 10-07-2020, 12:46 AM   #1
saxman657
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Question Timing Issue

Interesting situation. I had overheating issues which I'm sure led to a blown head gasket. Did some surgery: installed a new HC head with graphite head gasket, and a new heavy duty radiator. Since she was apart, I also replaced the chipped macerated timing gear with an aluminum timing gear, and a new ratchet nut on the crankshaft. Timing was fine before blowing the head gasket. With the new HC head, even though timing is solid and engine runs great at low idle through 50+mph, my timing stays at full retard position. Starts up right away and I never need to advance the timing through top speeds. When we put the new timing gear on, never could find a mark on the crankshaft gear, so we marked where the teeth came together and went off that. Timing gear issue? Distributor issue? Or is this normal with a HC Head? Doesn't seem right to me.

Appreciate any thoughts or ideas.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:42 AM   #2
1955cj5
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Default Re: Timing Issue

The timing mark on the crank gear should be on the tooth that is aligned with the right side of the keyway, as viewed from the front.

How were your gears aligned?

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Old 10-07-2020, 08:47 AM   #3
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Default Re: Timing Issue

If you're finding little difference in manual set of timing - something else is "sub-optimal."

Methinks the issue may be in your timing gear match.

The engineering startup world on finding difficulties says "look to the differences or unknowns for issue resolution."

You've said you were not sure of match mark alignment. This is an unknown. Other differences (gear, head, gasket) are not - or proved out inconsequential.

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Old 10-07-2020, 09:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: Timing Issue

doubtful its the head as i ran a 7-1 for years with no trouble . my guess is the timing gears are not correct ..........
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:32 AM   #5
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Default Re: Timing Issue

hc head has nothing to do with timing!
and if you are running your timing in the retard position all the time, it will continue to overheat!!!!
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:36 AM   #6
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Default Re: Timing Issue

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1955cj5 View Post
The timing mark on the crank gear should be on the tooth that is aligned with the right side of the keyway, as viewed from the front.

How were your gears aligned?

.
There was no mark on the crank gear so we marked where the teeth meshed with each other on the old timing gear setup before removing, and then placed the new timing gear to line up where the old one was. Maybe the old one was off too?? I didn't know that the right side of the key way was another way to find the correct tooth to line up the timing gear. Looks like something new to do this weekend -- the fun never stops!
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:56 AM   #7
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Default Re: Timing Issue

Just goes to show how forgiving these engines are. Timeing is crucial for power and temp control.
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Old 10-07-2020, 10:08 AM   #8
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Default Re: Timing Issue

Could the crank gear be on backwards?

Last edited by Bob C; 10-07-2020 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 10-07-2020, 12:02 PM   #9
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Timing Issue

Some crankshaft timing gears are marked on the tooth with Ford script .
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Old 10-07-2020, 01:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: Timing Issue

Like 1955 said. I'm also thinking your issue is the cam gear installation. Where you lined up or marked the gears doesn't mean that much. I'd recommend checking the alignment as 1955 showed. Its all lot rework, but,,,,,,,,


All that said, does your spark lever linkage work correctly ? Full retard the arm should be at one side of the window and full advance should be at the opposite.
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Old 10-07-2020, 02:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Timing Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1955cj5 View Post
The timing mark on the crank gear should be on the tooth that is aligned with the right side of the keyway, as viewed from the front.

How were your gears aligned?

.
Great picture 1955, that says it all. Good for many of us to see. Thanks
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Old 10-07-2020, 02:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: Timing Issue

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Also make sure the crank gear is not on backwards with the mark on the
back side, if it is it will never be right until you turn it around.
Iíve been told that if the crank gear is on backwards, it isnít that critical and it will work either way
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:03 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
Like 1955 said. I'm also thinking your issue is the cam gear installation. Where you lined up or marked the gears doesn't mean that much. I'd recommend checking the alignment as 1955 showed. Its all lot rework, but,,,,,,,,


All that said, does your spark lever linkage work correctly ? Full retard the arm should be at one side of the window and full advance should be at the opposite.
I plan to take the cover off to see if anything is amiss. My (knowledgeable) buddy that helped with this project said it was lined up properly with the keyhole.

As to the spark lever linkage, it is full contact from retard position to full advance. I had to purchase a NuRex adapter and cut the linkage to expand all of the way since the new linkages are too short (even from Brattonís!)
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Old 10-07-2020, 06:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: Timing Issue

Well if your friend the marks are aligned correctly, then it should be OK. My question was how it could be correct unless you got lucky. Just marking the timing gears is a real crap shoot.
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: Timing Issue

If the dimple is on the back side, turn it around so it will be easy to time correctly.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: Timing Issue

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If the dimple is on the back side, turn it around so it will be easy to time correctly.
It sounds simple, but how easy is that procedure and any special tools required?
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Timing Issue

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It sounds simple, but how easy is that procedure and any special tools required?
When I pulled the one off my old engine, it was pretty well stuck on there.

I used a HF gear puller, which is all I had at the time, and heat....the engine was on a stand.

As it was I ruined the old gear but had a new one ready.

You probably ought to have a replacement.

Do you have a picture of your current setup?
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Last edited by 1955cj5; 10-07-2020 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: Timing Issue

I'm thinking you could find the cam gear dimple with the timing pin, as normal, and then visually check the #1 piston for TDC by looking through the spark plug hole. If you need to turn the engine either way to bring the piston to the top then something is not right.

This might tell you how far off you are, if at all, and whether your current timing is retarded or advanced....
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Old 10-07-2020, 10:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: Timing Issue

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It sounds simple, but how easy is that procedure and any special tools required?
If it is on wrong (tooth mesh), you will need to pull something anyway.
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Old 10-08-2020, 10:00 AM   #20
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Default Re: Timing Issue

Just remove the timing gear cover and take a look.
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