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Old 09-13-2020, 08:53 AM   #1
jrvariel48
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Default Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

So this is the second time my crank pulley bolt came loose and disappeared onto the road. The first time it happened, I just figured I didn't tighten it enough. I installed a new bolt, torqued it to 50lbs. with red lock-tite and it came off this morning. This is a blower motor so the crank bolt and pulley are not stock, but I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.
Looking for an explanation.
Thanks Joe
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Old 09-13-2020, 08:58 AM   #2
Lawson Cox
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Gremlins,
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:26 AM   #3
39portlander
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Joe could you drill the shank and use a castle nut, You got me curious.

Get one of those remote cameras and possibly video that area by the pulley and see what is going on while driving, good luck and let us know how you make out.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:03 AM   #4
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Are you torquing bolt to specs? Are the threads worn? Is there any type of lock washer or "spring washer" you could use with the bolt.

Here's a very good link to washers that might solve your problem. Lots of great information.
https://www.google.com/search?q=spec...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Read this:

https://vention.io/blogs/best-anti-v...-fasteners-178

Read about "Smart Bolts".
http://www.smartbolts.com/insights/l...nt%20loosening.

First thing I would do is try a brand new Grade 8 bolt.
What engine is in your car?

Last edited by 19Fordy; 09-13-2020 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Are you torquing bolt to specs? Are the threads worn? Is there any type of lock washer or "spring washer" you could use with the bolt.

Here's a very good link to washers that might solve your problem. Lots of great information.
https://www.google.com/search?q=spec...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Read this:

https://vention.io/blogs/best-anti-v...-fasteners-178

Read about "Smart Bolts".
http://www.smartbolts.com/insights/l...nt%20loosening.

First thing I would do is try a brand new Grade 8 bolt.
What engine is in your car?
Lotsa great reading Fordy! The crank is new as was the bolt. I'm looking into the Nord-lock washer system. They seem to hold up to just about any situation.
I was using grade 8 bolts, but no lock washer, just some red lock-tite.
Engine is a blown 1950 8BA.
Thanks Joe
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:23 AM   #6
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 39portlander View Post
Joe could you drill the shank and use a castle nut, You got me curious.

Get one of those remote cameras and possibly video that area by the pulley and see what is going on while driving, good luck and let us know how you make out.
Not sure if I could drill the shank, but the camera's a great idea. I use three of them on board to record A/F reading, fuel pressure, vacuum and rpm when tuning.
Thanks!
Joe
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:24 AM   #7
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

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Gremlins,
I hate Gremlins!!! Lol
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:40 AM   #8
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

I would speak with Loctite on their 800 number and get it from the people that know. The red is basically bomb proof.



R
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:46 AM   #9
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Just a thought, how tight is the hub and pulley onto the crank? with the added load of the blower and if it's not a tight enough fit it might cause some wobbling and loosening of the bolt that holds it in place.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Lets see some pictures of the crank pulley with out the bolt and spring washer.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:58 AM   #11
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

I was thinking the same as earlyride, and perhaps the 2 surfaces (crank side and bolt side) of the pulley are not exactly 90 degrees from the centerline which would permit a wobble.
Also, did you clean the internal threads of the crank with Brakecleen or lacquer thinner and blow it out before using the locktite?
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Old 09-13-2020, 11:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Joe in the past when I have experienced the exact same issue as yours even with the blower belt helping the dampening. The problem was due to a balance issue which turned out to be the flywheel area. Even red locktite would not help. I would suggest try green locktite its a lot stronger than red if the bolt still comes loose after going to green then checking the bolt regularly to be sure its tight would at least keep the bolt in place and not on the road someplace.
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Old 09-13-2020, 11:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Hi Joe, appears to be not enough torque on the bolt, this will cause your problem. If it doesn't get enough torque it will eventually work its way out!

What happens is having the correct "tension" on the bolt keeps it in place!

To add to the problem, the OEM dampers are NOT a press fit to begin with, this makes the torque number even more important.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. It's a bit ironic but Pontiac builds share the same characteristics, the OEM damper has always been a "slip-fit", getting the damper bolt up to torque does take a bit of doing! I don't have the OEM torque handy for the Flathead but the Pontiacs must get a minimum of 150# (160# preferred) to do the job! Same size bolt/washer as the Flatheads, being 5/8-18 x 1.750" I believe?
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Old 09-13-2020, 11:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

The torque specifications on a grade 8 5/8-18 bolt is 240 ft-lbs dry and 180 ft-lbs lubed. So 50 is not even close. 50 ft-lbs is in the range of a 3/8 inch bolt.
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Old 09-13-2020, 11:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

It sounds like the torque you are using is too low. If the bolt is a 5/8"-18 and a grade 8 capscrew, the torque should be in the 235 lb-ft range, reference Craftsman generic torque table.

There is a lot of torsional vibration going through that joint to the crank pulleys. Increasing the grip length of the bolt will get more stretch in the bolt and resistance to loosening. You can increase the length by adding a thick wall spacer.

I do not recommend using a lock washer, it is just another spring in the system.
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Old 09-13-2020, 12:20 PM   #16
jrvariel48
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
I would speak with Loctite on their 800 number and get it from the people that know. The red is basically bomb proof.



R
Great suggestion Ronnie, thank you
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Old 09-13-2020, 12:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by earlyride View Post
Just a thought, how tight is the hub and pulley onto the crank? with the added load of the blower and if it's not a tight enough fit it might cause some wobbling and loosening of the bolt that holds it in place.
It's a pretty snug fit as I remember it. I can pull the belts and check to see if my memory serves me right!
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Old 09-13-2020, 12:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

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Originally Posted by jimvette59 View Post
Lets see some pictures of the crank pulley with out the bolt and spring washer.
OK I'll get some pics in a bit. Thanks
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Old 09-13-2020, 12:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

A steel bolt in a steel nut of suitable grade of steel will achieve the numbers quoted above, but as it is being screwed into a cast iron crank snout would a lower value be more appropriate? I am thinking 50 lbs sounds a bit low, though.

Mart.
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Old 09-13-2020, 12:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: Crank pulley bolt...Lost again!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
I was thinking the same as earlyride, and perhaps the 2 surfaces (crank side and bolt side) of the pulley are not exactly 90 degrees from the centerline which would permit a wobble.
Also, did you clean the internal threads of the crank with Brakecleen or lacquer thinner and blow it out before using the locktite?
I did clean everything with brake clean and a bore brush. Also used bore style Qtips until there was no dirt. Thanks deuce
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